Males and Females

[Onder]

Krampus Boogie Woogie moogle dancin' all night

What the fuck man.

 

[Dak]

Sorry, but reducing the important issues that a large group of people face to "tawdry sexual word games" is bullshit. Nobody is claiming that biased pronoun usage and the like is the absolute crux of the issue, just that it's one of many things that contributes to a negative, harmful patriarchal social climate. Why are you so hostile toward even engaging in conversation about such matters?

Because the uproar is a distraction away from more important issues than how you and others relate to [your] genitals beyond leaving them alone when requested. If you want to identify as a lemur and have everyone refer to you as Julien that's fine, but you have no grounds to demand that treatment, and everyone else is not a dick for not playing along with whatever personal revolution you've got going on.

 

[Onder]

Do they dance as a sort of a flash mob for old people? I know there was a different thing like this in some US mall recently. Why do people do these things?

EDIT: Dakryn'd.

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

Because the uproar is a distraction away from more important issues than how you and others relate to [your] genitals beyond leaving them alone when requested. If you want to identify as a lemur and have everyone refer to you as Julien that's fine, but you have no grounds to demand that treatment, and everyone else is not a dick for not playing along with whatever personal revolution you've got going on.

On what grounds do you get to assign the "importance" factor of an issue (I'm only half serious, this raises a lot more philosophical questions that would quickly devolve into senseless pedantry)? Furthermore, we're not just talking about an obscure group of marginalized people like otherkins or whathaveyou. The issues that feminism seeks to address are so pervasive and problematic that it's socially irresponsible to refuse to even acknowledge that we live in a culture where women simply aren't treated as equals and continue to face barriers that should be abolished.

I actually do sympathize with your disgust at people prioritizing something like otherkins being outraged that they're perceived as strange over alarming political matters, but the fact that rape culture is a very real thing that many have no problem with is just as "serious" as the clusterfuck that is our current political situation.

 

[Vimana]

The reason that feminism is more irrelevant now is because collective, one-sided, legal oppression of women is gone. The only things left of female oppression are cultural attitudes that are doing a pretty good job dying on their own.

The common social issues I hear about from feminism seem to be nonexistent, blown up, oversimplified, or confined to demographics on their way out. For example, slut-shaming. It's presented as an issue facing women from the patriarchy, but most slut-shaming I've seen came from old people and women.

Just about the only thing they can hold onto is rape. It's about the only thing feminists complain about that sucks for a person no matter what they decide to think. It's also much harder for a woman to rape a man or for a woman to rape a woman, so it's easy to blame men. It's not like slut-shaming or body image or other issues "facing women" that contain female participation. This is the last issue of men against women that they can cling to, and they'll do it because they want to keep fighting the good fight. Some just can't accept that the fight is over. It started a long time ago. It was bound to end at some point.

Now you end up with people like me growing up in environments where sexism and racism are thought of as crazy beliefs that angry old people have, and now the biggest social issues have nothing to do with personal freedom, but what little trivial, easily-ignorable, pointless things offend people. That's what you complain about when real problems are gone, and that's why I want to tell every single one of those SJW's to just shut up and enjoy one of the most socially-evolved places the world has ever seen.

 

[SentinelSlain]

I swear aspects of prison sexuality for long term male inmates must be massively worse than single male on female rape case, with no pregnancy or STD/I transmission. Some of the shit you hear about going on in male prisons is horrendous. I actually know someone who, whilst drinking and having a bit of a spewing up of their whole life, admitted that he'd been to jail as a young man and had been beaten and sodomized by five men. I'm sure I read some statistic somewhere that some huge percentage of young men who get sent to prison in the US get "turned out". It's fucking disgusting. Fuck whatever woman is upset because of some choice of language some presenter made or because a man at an atheist convention smiled at her in the elevator. Deal with prison rape first.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men

 

[Vimana]

From what I've read, most prison sex is consensual. Certain men will do it intentionally because it can get them things from other prisoners.



But yeah, the social issues that go viral tend to be shit like someone making a young woman uncomfortable. The actual misogyny in Africa doesn't make the news. It's harder to do something about it, and it happens all the time, so it's not news.

 

[Mort Divine]

The reason that feminism is more irrelevant now is because collective, one-sided, legal oppression of women is gone. The only things left of female oppression are cultural attitudes that are doing a pretty good job dying on their own.

The common social issues I hear about from feminism seem to be nonexistent, blown up, oversimplified, or confined to demographics on their way out. For example, slut-shaming. It's presented as an issue facing women from the patriarchy, but most slut-shaming I've seen came from old people and women.

Just about the only thing they can hold onto is rape. It's about the only thing feminists complain about that sucks for a person no matter what they decide to think. It's also much harder for a woman to rape a man or for a woman to rape a woman, so it's easy to blame men. It's not like slut-shaming or body image or other issues "facing women" that contain female participation. This is the last issue of men against women that they can cling to, and they'll do it because they want to keep fighting the good fight. Some just can't accept that the fight is over. It started a long time ago. It was bound to end at some point.

Now you end up with people like me growing up in environments where sexism and racism are thought of as crazy beliefs that angry old people have, and now the biggest social issues have nothing to do with personal freedom, but what little trivial, easily-ignorable, pointless things offend people. That's what you complain about when real problems are gone, and that's why I want to tell every single one of those SJW's to just shut up and enjoy one of the most socially-evolved places the world has ever seen.

You're literally trying to say the the US is one of the most socially evolved places in history?

Well, compared to how it was even just 50 years...progress has been made but to suggest that "real" social problems are gone is ludicrous.

REAL RACISM IS DEAD
SEXISM IS DEAD

 

[Vimana]

You're literally trying to say the the US is one of the most socially evolved places in history?

Yes.

Well, compared to how it was even just 50 years...progress has been made but to suggest that "real" social problems are gone is ludicrous.

REAL RACISM IS DEAD
SEXISM IS DEAD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV-EDWzJuzk

I didn't just say they were gone. I said they were also blown up, oversimplified, or confined to demographics on their way out. Most importantly, they're out of the law. That makes a big difference. Now, the negative social attitudes are just retained within the minds of different people. There is no collective entity telling people to oppress anyone, or sanctifying that oppression.

There are still racists, and there are still sexist people, but the American public is mostly against them. That's why sexism and racism seem to have become more subtle over the years. It's because they're dying, but people people still want to fight them. So instead of black people doing protests like eating in white only restaurants (because they don't exist anymore), we now have people bitching on their blogs because someone asked them if they speak "Asian" in Japan.

 

[Mort Divine]

Institutional sexism/racism/etc. does not suddenly end when it isn't the law. It is still part of society - it is part of the way our society still operates.

 

[Vimana]

There's a certain amount of sexism and racism that has to be gone from the American public before it's gone from the law. We would be living in a weird world if our government legislated away our racism and sexism, rather than civil rights activists changing people's minds AND THEN the law.

But the reason I put emphasis on the law is because the law is either a reflection of the values of its people, or is simply imposed on the people. Since racism and sexism are out of the law, they don't do as much reflecting or imposing.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

The reason that feminism is more irrelevant now is because collective, one-sided, legal oppression of women is gone. The only things left of female oppression are cultural attitudes that are doing a pretty good job dying on their own.

Income disparity is still a real thing.

The common social issues I hear about from feminism seem to be nonexistent, blown up, oversimplified, or confined to demographics on their way out. For example, slut-shaming. It's presented as an issue facing women from the patriarchy, but most slut-shaming I've seen came from old people and women.

I don't know why you would assume that sexism only occurs from a man to a woman. Sexism, racism, homophobia or any other kind of discrimination can occur from one member of a discriminated group to another member of the same discriminated group. Most the feminists I know get this.

 

[Vimana]

Income disparity is still a real thing.

And not legally-imposed. Maybe it's that men tend to negotiate for higher wages, tend to want to make more money, and tend to work more hours, while women have more of a tendency to go for part-time work. If you could legally pay women less because of their gender, any smart company would fire all their men.

I don't know why you would assume that sexism only occurs from a man to a woman. Sexism, racism, homophobia or any other kind of discrimination can occur from one member of a discriminated group to another member of the same discriminated group. Most the feminists I know get this.

Because of hearing so much about the patriarchy. I hear a lot from the vocal, radical group of feminists. The more moderate feminists who realize that there isn't always an entire demographic to blame for a social issue are the ones I don't argue with, but are also less vocal (on the internet at least).

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

The more moderate feminists who realize that there isn't always an entire demographic to blame for a social issue are the ones I don't argue with, but are also less vocal (on the internet at least).

"Patriarchy" has nothing to do with blaming a single demographic for the plight of an entire gender. The term describes the complex network of bullshit that is perpetuated by all kinds of different people on all kinds of scales to keep the climate of inequality alive.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

And not legally-imposed. Maybe it's that men tend to negotiate for higher wages, tend to want to make more money, and tend to work more hours, while women have more of a tendency to go for part-time work. If you could legally pay women less because of their gender, any smart company would fire all their men.

This is so fucking stupid.

Because of hearing so much about the patriarchy. I hear a lot from the vocal, radical group of feminists. The more moderate feminists who realize that there isn't always an entire demographic to blame for a social issue are the ones I don't argue with, but are also less vocal (on the internet at least).

People who battle against extremists are fighting an empty battle.

"Patriarchy" has nothing to do with blaming a single demographic for the plight of an entire gender. The term describes the complex network of bullshit that is perpetuated by all kinds of different people on all kinds of scales to keep the climate of inequality alive.

This.

 

[Lateralus14]

Income disparity is still a real thing.

Yeah, it is. Some companies will pay a woman more just so they can keep some diversity. Exhibit A: my old best friend who will be an easily-hired female engineer.

 

[Vimana]

This is so fucking stupid.

And I suppose companies can legally pay women less? Research I've read on the subject, like this shows that income disparity is not a simple result of oppression and does not always go in a single direction.

People who battle against extremists are fighting an empty battle.

Not if the extremists are what's in the way of the US finally letting go of all the bullshit it attaches to sex and race.

"Patriarchy" has nothing to do with blaming a single demographic for the plight of an entire gender. The term describes the complex network of bullshit that is perpetuated by all kinds of different people on all kinds of scales to keep the climate of inequality alive.

Then why choose to call it that? "Patriarchy" makes it seem like it's a male-exclusive or male-created phenomenon.

 

[Matt]

And not legally-imposed. Maybe it's that men tend to negotiate for higher wages, tend to want to make more money, and tend to work more hours, while women have more of a tendency to go for part-time work. If you could legally pay women less because of their gender, any smart company would fire all their men.

Itt Vimana has ignorant white man syndrome. 'None of these issues affect me, so they must not exist'

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

Then why choose to call it that? "Patriarchy" makes it seem like it's a male-exclusive or male-created phenomenon.

Because it's an unfair power structure that privileges the male over the female. Seriously, just take a look at any bit of pop culture or conceivable phenomenon under the assumption that the patriarchy is a real thing that is alive and kicking. It's fucking everywhere and harms all kinds of people of all varieties to varying degrees. You don't have to be a militant activist to endorse the basic tenet of all strands of feminism: absolute equality between sexes. The patriarchy impedes progress toward that ideal by reinforcing archaic constructs that are usually predicated upon a history of oppression that gives way to logically fallacious claims about what is "natural".

The male-centric nature of the term doesn't refer to the sole perpetrators of the power structure itself, but the group of people that are in the authoritative position.

 

[KafkaX]

So I went to see Neurosis and YOB with the chick I met from the High on Fire show. Weve been talking for a few weeks and things are cool, but I realized Im not really attracted to her. Shes definitely someone I see having a lifelong friendship with because we have ALOT of similar interests and outlooks, and shes fucking rad, its just Im not attracted to her physically.

All good. No harm no foul.