Manticora, Circus Maximus and the "Metallica Effect"

[General Zod]

Judging by Manticora's video clips, and previous ProgPower audiences, I expect Manticora to leave Earthlink in ruin. I think, to some extant, that will cause Circus Maximus to come across as weak and unenergetic.

I saw the Monsters of Rock... years ago. I was really looking forward to seeing Metallica and Dokken. Metallica was on the verge of releasing "And Justice for All" and Dokken was supporting "Back for the Attack". Metallica slayed. Dokken wasn't bad. They were tight, and into their performance. However, following a much heavier act is a tough thing to do. Consequently, the audience was dead for Dokken's performance. Similarly, I expect a big drop in the crowd's energy level for CM. To my way of thinking, CM would benefit greatly from going on before Manticora, instead of after.

Zod

 

[Heavenly Call]

I agree...if I may make a comparison, but in a different style of music, several years ago I saw SR-71 open up for Stroke 9. Same basic genre of music and at the time both bands were relatively unknown (Stroke 9's Little Black Backpack had just started to recieve airplay). Even though Stroke 9 was the "bigger" band, after a non-stop energetic performance from SR-71 (who kicked total ass and are still one of my favorite non-metal bands) Stroke 9 looked weak in comparison.

Fortunately I think the prog-power fans are forgiving enough to not get caught up in that trap, but I definitley think it is something to think about!

 

[General Zod]

Fortunately I think the prog-power fans are forgiving enough to not get caught up in that trap, but I definitley think it is something to think about!

Forgiving? In what sense?

I don't think people will walk out saying that CM sucked (unless, of course, they do). But I do think, that as an opener, CM would have benefitted from the excitement that exists when the evening first starts. Following Manticora, CM's performance and music will have to be as energetic for the crowd not to let down. Given ther musical style, I believe we'll see a drop in crowd enthusiasm.

Zod

 

[peavy_fan]

I already heard some of manticora and you are right in that part, but in the CM part I don't think song the guy sings so good and their album is so excellent that I don't think CM will cause a bad impresson.

 

[Harvester]

Zod[/QUOTE]

I understand your point completely and agree that it may happen, especially as prog fans will be there for Manticora while power fans may not extend the same courtesy to Circus Maximus.

However, I did base the selection order on two things:

1. Historically, prog openers (Zero Hour, Adagio, Redemption, etc) have not exactly whipped the crowd into any sort of frenzy. I really want to get the energy level off from the start and see if it bleeds over into the next act. It's an attempt at something different so we will see how it goes.

2. Dreamscape took the #2 slot last year and had an outstanding crowd reaction after a heavy performance from Into Eternity. I see CM in a very similar situation.

If a prog band can bring it live (Pagan's Mind, Dreamscape, Threshold), then it doesn't matter who they follow with this specific crowd. They will reap what they sow.

Glenn H.

 

[Nightmare1z]

It could be like the year Edguy and Blind Guardian played at PP3. If I remember right, Edguy played 3rd and BG was 4th. Edguy killed - and thus BG just seemed stale that night.

 

[longshot9]

Agree totally with you Zod on the Metallica/Dokken thing. I went to the Monsters show in LA with like 90,000 people there, Metallica destroyed the place (literally, fans ripped down the fence seperating the "field" from the stands, all the chairs on the field were thrown out, some on-stage causing Metallica to stop playing and just sit on the stage until everyone decided to grow up), but after their show Dokken seemed just lame in comparison.

However, I also agree with Glenn, I thought Dreamscape did an exceptional job last year following IE. I'm not a huge Dreamscape fan, I like them, much more in fact after their show at PPV, but am a huge IE fan. I didn't feel any difference in atmosphere in the crowd. A little more subdued maybe, but still felt the band put on a great show.

I think CM will do fine, while Manticora is a heavier band, I put CM on the heavier side of Prog Metal (ala Symphony X or Adagio) so I think they'll do fine. Plus their cd is just sooooo freakin good.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

I already heard some of manticora and you are right in that part, but in the CM part I don't think song the guy sings so good and their album is so excellent that I don't think CM will cause a bad impresson.

 

[General Zod]

If a prog band can bring it live (Pagan's Mind, Dreamscape, Threshold), then it doesn't matter who they follow with this specific crowd. They will reap what they sow.

I'd agree with that, and I hope CM proves me wrong. Hell, I'm rooting for all ten bands to be better than Tad Morose and Brianstorm were last year.

Zod

 

[edgeofthorns]

Judging by Manticora's video clips, and previous ProgPower audiences, I expect Manticora to leave Earthlink in ruin. I think, to some extant, that will cause Circus Maximus to come across as weak and unenergetic.

I saw the Monsters of Rock... years ago. I was really looking forward to seeing Metallica and Dokken. Metallica was on the verge of releasing "And Justice for All" and Dokken was supporting "Back for the Attack". Metallica slayed. Dokken wasn't bad. They were tight, and into their performance. However, following a much heavier act is a tough thing to do. Consequently, the audience was dead for Dokken's performance. Similarly, I expect a big drop in the crowd's energy level for CM. To my way of thinking, CM would benefit greatly from going on before Manticora, instead of after.

Zod

Zod, you make a good point, but I think so early into the festival it might not have that much of a negative effect. Let's hope not anyway!

 

[Dark One]

See, the thing is, this audience has much more specific tastes than the audience that attended the Monsters of Rock festival. That audience was looking to rock out plain and simple, and Metallica showed most of them how to rock harder than they ever have before. It was a fresh and exciting time for the scene and for that audience in particular. Dokken had no chance.

The Progpower crowd has a nice mix of fans who are seeking to rock out and also those who are seeking to be mesmerized by progressive, grandiose musicianship. It is, for the most part an elite, educated crowd. For example, your typical Pain of Salvation devoted fan is going to show their appreciation of PoS by being entranced and eveloped by what's happening on stage, not by raising their fists and headbanging. A low energy level in the crowd at Progpower does not necessarily mean a non-captivated audience (although it certainly COULD mean that).

Not to mention that many fans of a heavier, non-prog style may be out talking with friends or buying cd's while the Proggies do their thing. To put it another way, it would seem that the fans of the heavier styles often bring the energy levels way up when their bands are up there "kicking ass". That's not necessarily the case when a progressive band is up there "kicking ass".

 

[ashaman7122]

Dark One makes a great point...it's hard to taint the overall PPUSA vibe.

I think Zod sets the bar a little high...rooting for all bands to bypass the energy of Tad and Brainstorm last year...whew...that would be killer!

Energy is energy...some band do it better than others. The style of music dictates the energy level (to some point), but that's not the end of it.

For example, prog bands that impressed me more (than I expected): Threshold, Vanden Plas, Dreamscape...just off the top of my head.

Prog bands that bored me live: Zero Hour, Redemption...although I am big fans of both of them.

Stride impressed the shit out of me at the PP4 pre-party...I'm hoping that they'll give us some good prog as well as a kick in the ass on Saturday before Andy & the Symphorce boys hit the stage.

On Friday, Manticora is a purposeful blow-to-the-head to kickstart the festival. Circus was a purposeful pick for the festival as well, according to Glenn, who evidently was impressed by a demo from Ken Golden. I think their album kicks ass, although I could do without some of the blatant Dream Theater-isms that pervade...I am totally looking forward to their set (time will tell where their legacy falls in PP history).

When it all boils down...this year's ProgPower is all over the map...and I would think that's the way Glenn wants it. While I may not be a fan of all the bands this year...I'm totally stoked about the entire festival.


Rock on!

 

[General Zod]

The Progpower crowd has a nice mix of fans who are seeking to rock out and also those who are seeking to be mesmerized by progressive, grandiose musicianship. It is, for the most part an elite, educated crowd.

I don't disagree. However, if you had to name the band who got the biggest crowd reaction at each festival, it's been bands that make you want to bang your head and throw your horns to the sky:

Angel Dust (PPII)
Edguy (PPIII)
Evergrey (PPIV)
Tad Morose & Brainstorm (PPV)

Will there be CM fans at PP who have no interest in Manticora? No doubt.

While you play the role of devil's advocate quite well, do you truly believe there won't be a drop in energy from Manticora to CM?

Zod

 

[urinalcakemix]

Yea but wont the energy drop let people focus in on CM, and take in their proggy goodness, and experience it the way it should be? I don't think its possible to mosh to many Circus Maximus riffs, so does it matter? THe drop off in energy could let people take in the musicianship, recoup then BAM ORPHANED LAND CONCEPTIOn then Angra capping off the greatest hardon of my life.

 

[Dark One]

I don't disagree. However, if you had to name the band who got the biggest crowd reaction at each festival, it's been bands that make you want to bang your head and throw your horns to the sky:

Angel Dust (PPII)
Edguy (PPIII)
Evergrey (PPIV)
Tad Morose & Brainstorm (PPV)

Will there be CM fans at PP who have no interest in Manticora? No doubt.

While you play the role of devil's advocate quite well, do you truly believe there won't be a drop in energy from Manticora to CM?

Zod

Well, I'm not necessarily saying that educated CM (or Prog) fans will ensure that the energy level doesn't drop off after a band like Manticora. I mean, from a physical standpoint, it makes perfect sense why the heavier music evokes a more intense and energetic response from the audience during the set. I don't question that there will be an energy dropoff from Manticora to Circus Maximus because I believe it's impossible for there not to be.

From a "that was awesome" standpoint though, you might be surprised at what the post-festival reaction would be for a prog band that seemingly didn't go over well due to the low energy level of the audience. I guess what I'm trying to say is that "low energy" does not "necessarily" mean lack of enjoyment (but don't get me wrong, it very well could).

Hey, it may mean a lack of enjoyment for us, but for the people who came to see exactly what Circus Maximus has to offer as opposed to a band like Manticora, well, CM may be the band of the festival for those individuals. Monsters of "Rock" was about just that - rocking out. Progpower by definition, isn't.

EDIT - make that "Progpower by definition, isn't JUST about rocking out in a throw the horns kind of way, even though a festival like that would certainly appeal to us."

Hey, as you know though, I'm definitely a much bigger fan of the heavier "throw the horns" style. Manticora is certainly more my cup of tea than CM without question.

 

[TheWhisper]

A drop in energy...very possibly, even likely. A drop in excitement, or enjoyment...remains to be seen.

 

[ashaman7122]

do you truly believe there won't be a drop in energy from Manticora to CM?

Zod

My response to that is...

...yeah...but who gives a shit?

Manticora will be hoisting a few cold ones to themselves for kicking ass from the start...gives the other bands something to live up to...

By the way...there's a ton of people creaming their pants to see Conception, but I don't see them being the most slamming, horns-in-the-air kinda band either.

This is a good thread...and good discussion...but aren't we just beating a dead horse at this point?


Rock on!

 

[TheWhisper]

It is, as with everything, a matter of opinion. I enjoyed Dreamscape's set following Into Eternity, who I walked out on after 3 songs, because they did nothing for me. I'm sure some will find CM a let down after Manticora, while others will be apathatic towards Manticora and love CM.

 

[General Zod]

This is a good thread...and good discussion...but aren't we just beating a dead horse at this point?

It's a music forum. All we do is beat dead horses.

Zod

 

[urinalcakemix]

It's a music forum. All we do is beat dead horses.

Zod

Wait wait.. BEAT Dead horses?

Shit.