Metal and Fascist Idealism
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Lyle
<3 azudai <3
Caelum Adustum
Call me Ishmael
Fascist Idealism shouldn't be in metal? You're forgetting the whole concept where metal is about doing whatever the fuck you want. Do they offend you? 
I listen to a lot of NSBM/Pagan War Metal (Pagan War Metal isn't an official genre, but i've see black metal distros use it in reference to graveland and bilskirnir before) bands. I don't see why bands would have to limit their idealogy because they are predjudice. If it offends you don't pay attention to Varg, Rob Darken, etc. Their missions and goals to preserve pagan culture are in their hands.
I listen to a lot of NSBM/Pagan War Metal (Pagan War Metal isn't an official genre, but i've see black metal distros use it in reference to graveland and bilskirnir before) bands. I don't see why bands would have to limit their idealogy because they are predjudice. If it offends you don't pay attention to Varg, Rob Darken, etc. Their missions and goals to preserve pagan culture are in their hands.
anonymousnick2001
World's Greatest Vocalist
Episteme
Member
I would contribute to this thread, but unfortunately ShadowOfDeath beat me to what I was going to say. So....yeah!
Freanan
Member
There are elements shared by Metal and Fascism.
Perhaps one might even go as far as saying Metal and Fascism were born from the same mindset... still this mindset (no matter if the whole "starting mindset" is the same in both "movements", or if they just share some things), which is inherent to Metal does not necessarily need to give birth to the same political or ideological decisions, because the existing ideas can be interpreted in different ways, different new thoughts can be added and so on...
Perhaps one might even go as far as saying Metal and Fascism were born from the same mindset... still this mindset (no matter if the whole "starting mindset" is the same in both "movements", or if they just share some things), which is inherent to Metal does not necessarily need to give birth to the same political or ideological decisions, because the existing ideas can be interpreted in different ways, different new thoughts can be added and so on...
Astral_Dominion
Shanghaid
Guardian_of_Darkness said:
Eheh! I'd like to correct one substantial mistake you've made. Facism is/was one of the most populist ideologies of all times.Erik said:
i understand what all of you are saying, and i also see that all of you are obviously just using your own "liberal" and "conservative" thoughts to push your subject matter along. before i can even process any of those comments that have been made that i have just previously stated - i will need to know all of the actual definitions and meanings behind these terms i have already put into quotation marks. the very fact of the matter is that much like with all language - sometimes we are not communicating on the same level. so lets get these definitions entire meanings and histories out in the open, especially for those who dont understand exactly what is being stated.
someone just give me the damn meanings (if possible, from multiple sources).
im going to school now, bye.
someone just give me the damn meanings (if possible, from multiple sources).
im going to school now, bye.
no country for old wainds
Active Member
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Astral_Dominion said:
...What? Oh shit, yeah, I never looked at it that way before. I mean, I thought pretty much everyone had a negative kneejerk reaction to even the single word "fascism" because it was considered to be immoral and unhuman, but your comment has provided an insight I'd otherwise have disregarded. Thanks!
Look up words yourself and stop being a lazy ass, Seraphim.
AndICried
Pretentious asshole
Just because much conventional metal originated from the desire to return to romanticism, the last "great" era of European music doesn't mean that all metal should be x. Shit has progressed far beyond that, and creating any set of absolute rules for what can be good metal gives you a limited range of music to appreciate. Just a few examples of groups that do not express "a set of values and ideals that could best be termed crypto-fascist" Khanate, Naked City, Today is the Day. I'm glad that Varg is alive to make brilliant music, and no doubt a large influence on it is his philosophy, yet I'm also happy that metal is not trapped in a bubble influenced solely by western classical music. Different influences in metal makes listening to it a far more diverse an experience.
Hammer of Might
New Metal Member
I haven't read the whole thread because frankly the first few exchanges no doubt set the trend of the discussion pretty accurately.
While these concepts of fascism can easily be read in many forms of metal, and perhaps even the entire umbrella genre if you want to reflect merely on the somewhat anti-populist stance metal now enjoys thanks to trends in the media - afterall the genre, at least in part, certainly enjoyed it's share of mainstream exposure in years past, embraced by many bands that no doubt now exude this supposedly crypto-fascist aura - to conclude that the metal music is inherently fascist is unfounded and foolish.
Caught up in his own aloof pomposity the conceiver of this idea obviously neglected to realise that this music was not "born" with these (or any other dominating political principals I would wager) in mind, nor a great deal else other than to be creative, entertain and create music that they were excited about.
To read so deeply into this issue by looking at such transparent evidence is ridiculous. While undoubtedly there are more than a few artists who actively puruse fascist ideologies, as well as many others, to lump the genre that we love into this category based on scant and unconvicing points is laughably stupid.
While these concepts of fascism can easily be read in many forms of metal, and perhaps even the entire umbrella genre if you want to reflect merely on the somewhat anti-populist stance metal now enjoys thanks to trends in the media - afterall the genre, at least in part, certainly enjoyed it's share of mainstream exposure in years past, embraced by many bands that no doubt now exude this supposedly crypto-fascist aura - to conclude that the metal music is inherently fascist is unfounded and foolish.
Caught up in his own aloof pomposity the conceiver of this idea obviously neglected to realise that this music was not "born" with these (or any other dominating political principals I would wager) in mind, nor a great deal else other than to be creative, entertain and create music that they were excited about.
To read so deeply into this issue by looking at such transparent evidence is ridiculous. While undoubtedly there are more than a few artists who actively puruse fascist ideologies, as well as many others, to lump the genre that we love into this category based on scant and unconvicing points is laughably stupid.
demon talented
enduring iconoclast
Ba.. ..hahahh.. .. BAHAHAHYSAHAHAASAHAHAHAHASHAHAHHAAHHA!Astral_Dominion said:
So fucking true it's pathetic.
Life Sucks
and then you die
It is quite a well known fact that Wagner was an anti-Semite and a German nationalist.anonymousnick2001 said:Whoa, whoa! Wagner was a fascist?!
*burns copy of Der Ring des Nibelungen*
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
anonymousnick2001
World's Greatest Vocalist
Well yes and no. I knew Wagner was a nationalist. Nationalism sans jingoism is okay in my book. It should coexist with globalism, methinks. Otherwise the world WILL become one big gray blob. Nationalism is the only thing that will define cultural identity in a globalized culture. However, jingoism is inherently the polar opposite of globalization and therefore deconstructionist in the terms of achieving a 'better world.'
Hell, Edvard Grieg and Jean Sibelius were nationlists.
It is also true that fascism is totally populist. Almost any socioeconomic/political system cooked up in a laboratory, conference room or one person's mind is usually populist by nature, for there is truly no other reason it would be devised or spread among others. Populism is the motivation for new theories.
Unfortunately, the warlike nature of fascism and evidence that it is generally not so good has evoked this so-called 'knee-jerk' reaction among individuals. I pick religious egalitarianism in a liberalized setting over populism cooked up in the mind any day. Humans should live in as natural a setting as possible. Time and again it's proven that it is human nature to capitolize, and that in a capitalist setting, the best way to preserve lives is through democratic process. Egalitarianism is open to interpretation, because it can be attributed to religious belief. I personally like it. My faith is founded on it.
Sometimes it is better to live through the heart than the mind. A 'knee-jerk' reaction is hardly a bad thing all the tim. People react adversely to fascism for many reasons.
Hell, Edvard Grieg and Jean Sibelius were nationlists.
It is also true that fascism is totally populist. Almost any socioeconomic/political system cooked up in a laboratory, conference room or one person's mind is usually populist by nature, for there is truly no other reason it would be devised or spread among others. Populism is the motivation for new theories.
Unfortunately, the warlike nature of fascism and evidence that it is generally not so good has evoked this so-called 'knee-jerk' reaction among individuals. I pick religious egalitarianism in a liberalized setting over populism cooked up in the mind any day. Humans should live in as natural a setting as possible. Time and again it's proven that it is human nature to capitolize, and that in a capitalist setting, the best way to preserve lives is through democratic process. Egalitarianism is open to interpretation, because it can be attributed to religious belief. I personally like it. My faith is founded on it.
Sometimes it is better to live through the heart than the mind. A 'knee-jerk' reaction is hardly a bad thing all the tim. People react adversely to fascism for many reasons.
Toorop
..|.
AjDeath
Of One Man's Sanity
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