Metal productions that rival 'The Big 3'

[Ermz]

In your opinions, are there any metal productions out there which beat out any of these all-timers:

1. In Flames - Clayman
2. Soilwork - Stabbing the Drama
3. Decapitated - Organic Hallucinosis

Each of these, IMO, is the best in its own way. Out of all the metal albums I've ever heard, I consider these to be the 3 best productions of all time. Is there anything out there that matches, or comes close?

I know Sweet Vengeance was nipping at the heels of Clayman, but never quite got there. Behemoth's 'Demigod' is crushing, but has too many drawbacks, and didn't quite match the near technical perfection of STD. I haven't heard many of the other Hertz studio productions, but Organic is IMO, both the best technical death metal ever written, and also the best extreme metal production I've ever heard. IMO it's one of the greatest metal albums of all time in every way.

I'm purely thinking of metal here. In rock we've got Nickelback, Breaking Benjamin etc. and the like which were done by Randy and CLA, that slaughter most everything out there.

Disclaimer: I am aware of the existence of Jens Bogren, but his mixes don't do much for me.

 

[Metaltastic]

I really don't think "Organic" is that great; the kick doesn't have enough low-end for me (and is too clicky, and I mean even for the style IMO), and the guitars just a bit too harsh (I prefer the tone on "The Negation"). Also, the whole mix is kinda harsh, though hard to tell how much of that is in the mastering (probably a great deal). Beyond that, I don't really have anything to contribute except "The Great Cold Distance" - remind me again what you don't like about that one? That snare is absolute perfection IMO and the guitars have a godly crunch

 

[KeithTidd]

i think stabbing the drama was done at jen's studio. I don't know what his involvment was off the top of my head.

 

[Ermz]

Haha, I have to admit that disclaimer was intended to keep you specifically from the thread, because I knew we'd engage in a circular debate. We both inherently seem to like completely different things in production! I'm asking for suggestions on the terms of the big 3 listed up there.

The analogue fatness of Clayman. The near technical perfection of STD. The clarity, punch, and sheer aggression from Organic.

What I don't like about TGCD is that it's muddy, as most of Jens' mixes are. All the mids in the guitars kill the ambient space behind the front layer of instrumentation. The snare is too natural sounding. Listen to Nickelback's 'Fight for all the Wrong Reasons', 'All the Right Reasons', 'Next Contestant' or 'Side of a Bullet' back to back with any track from TGCD, and my issues illustrate themselves.

Regarding Organic, I didn't realize truly how great it was until I got a speaker system capable of hitting 40hz accurately.

 

[beyond dead]

What I don't like about TGCD is that it's muddy, as most of Jens' mixes are. All the mids in the guitars kill the ambient space behind the front layer of instrumentation. The snare is too natural sounding.

those are fightin words lol jk


+1 to TGCD.

I really like the production of sybreed antares.


for rock, Crossfade`s self titled album is top notch. def. my fav staub production

 

[lolzgreg]

In your opinions, are there any metal productions out there which beat out any of these all-timers:

Is Queensryche Metal? I would say Operation: Mindcrimes production is STELLAR for ANYTHING from that time period.

 

[bpcrshooter15]

There were some dudes who put out a self-titled in '91. it had a little snake on it. it was alright.

 

[indignantaudio]

if you consider TOOL "metal" I'd say that 10,000 Days smokes most mixes. big fan of barressi's tones.

 

[tobin1]

Stabbing the Drama holds the sickest fucking bass tracks laid down on an album, along with the triple rec, insanely tight ass mix.

Another one of my favorites is Dark Tranquility "Character"

 

[Lasse Lammert]

tool 10kday
nevermore tge

are both pissing all over your "big 3"

 

[Splat88]

tool 10kday
nevermore tge

are both pissing all over your "big 3"

+1

The production on the three albums listed above does absolutely nothing for me.

 

[Nebulous]

Another one of my favorites is Dark Tranquility "Character"

I'd much prefer Damage Done as far as production goes.

 

[tobin1]

tool 10kday
nevermore tge

are both pissing all over your "big 3"

He said "metal" Tool most definitely is not considered a metal band.

 

[Felix Neumann]

I would add "this godless endeavor". And what do you guys think about "The Atrocity Exhibition" ? I think it´s production wise one of the best.

The production of organic hallucinosis I dig a lot...but when I compare the music with Schuldiner´s DEATH, for me personally "sound of perseverance" has the better songs, the more catchy moments.."Spirit Crusher" and more emotion..(especially the vocals and the solos) IMO

 

[Ermz]

tool 10kday
nevermore tge

are both pissing all over your "big 3"

TBH I'm listening to the Tool album now and the production is doing nothing for me. Fuzzy, undergained guitars, raw sounding drums. IMO a better example of this sort of mixing is Breaking Benjamin's 'Phobia'.

TGE sounds distant and grainy compared to all 3 of the albums I listed. I love the music, but there's something not quite right about the production.

 

[Ermz]

@Felix: Isn't it a bit of stretch to compare Death to Decapitated? I mean both bands are ace, but Decapitated are in a much more extreme area of the genre, and don't share all that many resemblances with Schuldiner's work.

@Tobin: That's right, it's a rock album. But even so, 'Phobia' and 'All the Right Reasons' dominate that production on its own terms. Agreed regarding STD. It's a very niche bass sound though and would not work on everything. Very heavy limiting involved. Almost synth-bass.

@Splatt: I'm really surprised to hear that!

 

[Lasse Lammert]

TBH I'm listening to the Tool album now and the production is doing nothing for me. Fuzzy, undergained guitars, raw sounding drums. IMO a better example of this sort of mixing is Breaking Benjamin's 'Phobia'.

TGE sounds distant and grainy compared to all 3 of the albums I listed. I love the music, but there's something not quite right about the production.

wow., our taste does indeed differ
I bet you don't like King's X "Dogman" then either?
(just for the records...one of the if not THE best mix ever )

 

[Ermz]

Yeah, without a doubt there's a difference. I recall you mentioning 'The Last Kind Words' a little while back as one of the favourites, and it hit me at that moment that we are coming from different directions. It's one of the cool things about this place. I make a thread about 3 albums that I think are clearly above everything else I've ever heard and have people come in and say 'no.. no that's wrong!', and then we all try to convince each other about different things, haha.

I grabbed 'Dogman' a while back due to some suggestions and even after a few months of spinning it, I can't dig the production! I just feel more recent albums have pushed the technology to a further point. I think I'm starting to see what you like about these productions, but I can't honestly say I like them for the same reasons.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

ha, yeah, last kind words is definitely in my favs

doesn't matter, you're from the other side of the world, lol
here's what I do to australians:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/rate-my-mix-tone-threads/478578-lucys-doll-medley.html

 

[Felix Neumann]

@Felix: Isn't it a bit of stretch to compare Death to Decapitated? I mean both bands are ace, but Decapitated are in a much more extreme area of the genre, and don't share all that many resemblances with Schuldiner's work.

I wrote it under the aspect of the common denominator "progressive Death Metal"..(not production wise) Okay..but I admit, Decapitated is much more brutal and modern sounding. Always when there is a discussion about death metal records, I throw my beloved "sound of perseverance" in the ring