Metalcore

[SouthernTrendkill]

I'm gonna admit... I don't really have a clue what a breakdown is. I listen to tons of deathcore (probably my fave genre) but I wouldn't be able to point out a single breakdown to anbody. Is that, like, when they get slower in the middle of the song? I love that shit, it's totally metal. Pantera does it in what is probably my favorite song of all-time, Strength Beyond Strength.

 

[cookiecutter]

Breakdowns are slow rythmic sections

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

I see, thanks... so why would anyone hate that? That stuff is so heavy. It feels like just a natural part of the music to me, I don't ever notice when a band does or doesn't do that.

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

Slowing down in unmetal. THe middle of the song is for a vicious 180 mph guitar solo, a couple of base notes, then slam out the ending. But like I said, 1 per song is "acceptable".

 

[cookiecutter]

I see, thanks... so why would anyone hate that? That stuff is so heavy. It feels like just a natural part of the music to me, I don't ever notice when a band does or doesn't do that.

Just taste I guess. I love them and it's pretty much the only thing I like about metalcore/hardcore, but some people prefer things like speed or technicality over slower/catchier rhythms.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Slowing down in unmetal. THe middle of the song is for a vicious 180 mph guitar solo, a couple of base notes, then slam out the ending. But like I said, 1 per song is "acceptable".

I have to respectfully disagree with you that it's unmetal, I think it's extremely metal and heavy. Firstly there's the aforementioned Pantera, plus Master Of Puppets, not exactly a normal breakdown but it certainly gets soft and slow right in the middle of the song. Secondly because changing up the tempo keeps the audience on-guard. Thirdly because it's very Sabbath to include brooding portions in the music. Switching it up like that just makes everything more intense, if you keep things steady then it's not as abrassive.

I mean, different strokes for different folks, I respect that. And ya'll can disagree with me. But I just don't believe metalcore is less metal than tech death. I mean a band like Atreyu, yes they're not very metal. But Despised Icon and All Shall Perish, are every bit as brutal as Bloodbath and Meshuggah. I love all those bands. Despised Icon and All Shall Perish have speed and technicality too. Not as much as Cryptopsy but plenty none the less.

 

[cookiecutter]

Of course metalcore is "less metal" than other styles of metal. It is partially a non-metal genre. This doesn't make it bad, but it is less metal in terms of genre definitions.

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

-LOTS OF BIG WORDS-

I'm not a fan of Meshuggah or Cryptopsy. I listen to them on occasion, though. THey usually put me to sleep.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Of course metalcore is "less metal" than other styles of metal. It is partially a non-metal genre. This doesn't make it bad, but it is less metal in terms of genre definitions.

Mmm, nah, not Despised Icon and ilk. Like I said, some of the bands are perhaps not even metal at all, like Atreyu, but the heaviest and most extreme deathcore bands are as heavy and extreme as death metal bands. It doesn't make sense to call them non-metal just because they have trace hardcore influences. If we're going to do that, then I guess Slayer and Death aren't very metal because they had tons of punk influence. Thrash as a genre is chalk full of more punk than Despised Icon, or at least as much.

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

then I guess Slayer and Death aren't very metal.

Do you know what a beat down is?

 

[cookiecutter]

Mmm, nah, not Despised Icon and ilk. Like I said, some of the bands are perhaps not even metal at all, like Atreyu, but the heaviest and most extreme deathcore bands are as heavy and extreme as death metal bands. It doesn't make sense to call them non-metal just because they have trace hardcore influences. If we're going to do that, then I guess Slayer and Death aren't very metal because they had tons of punk influence. Thrash as a genre is chalk full of more punk than Despised Icon, or at least as much.

I'm not disputing claims of extremity or heaviness, but when the definition of your genre is "metal + hardcore" it is obviously not going to be as metal as "metal". There is a difference between influence (such as Slayer) and hybridization like Metalcore.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

CC is right in this case. Metalcore is a hybrid genre.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

No moreso than thrash was. Thrash was a hybrid of punk extremity with NWOBHM riffage, equal parts. The influence in Despised Icon certainly isn't any greater than it is in Slayer, it may even be less. The only punk I hear in the heaviest deathcore bands is that the death vocals are more agressive as opposed to the more straight style of a band like Cryptopsy. It's all semantics, you can say that the agressive vocals and occasional grooves of a deathcore band comes from punk, but as far as I'm concerned it's really just getting back towards the earlier thrash and death metal in the first place. It's mixing traditional death vocals with the original rageful vocals of bands like Slayer and Hellhammer. People call it deathcore, but in terms of the actual music it connects back to Slayer and Death as much as it connects back to Anal Cunt. It's just metal connecting back to itself, nothing unmetal is being added into it.

 

[cookiecutter]

You're just completely wrong

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

You're just completely wrong

Show me. Show me how the supposed "punk" elements in an album like Despised Icon's The Ills of Modern Man haven't already been a part of metal for years. 'Cause you know what? They have. All the aspects of punk's heaviness have been in metal since the 80s, and I can't find anything in the aforementioned album that connects it to punk other than the things that were already an important part of metal. It truly is metal connecting back to itself.

 

[cookiecutter]

I don't really know what to say. People didn't just decide to start calling bands metalcore for no reason, and it is certainly not because of the vocals. If you listen to the music it should be obvious.

 

[Dead Children Speak No Lies]

Metalcore is such a diverse term now. How can Biohazard, Agnostic Front (some albums), Hatebreed, Caliban, Trivium, Converge, Chimaira and The Red Chord all be in the same extreme metal sub genre????

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

Metalcore is such a diverse term now. How can Biohazard, Hatebreed, Caliban, Trivium, Converge, Chimaira and The Red Chord all be in the same extreme metal sub genre????

By sucking balls.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

I don't really know what to say. People didn't just decide to start calling bands metalcore for no reason, and it is certainly not because of the vocals. If you listen to the music it should be obvious.

Examples? I listen to it strictly for the music, and I would never have thought of it as anything but death metal if not for people claiming it's not. Maybe it's a little more verse-chorus or something, but that just makes it a different kind of death metal like melodic, brutal, tech, that doesn't make it into punk. The only connection to punk I've ever heard in a metalcore band other than Atreyu is the vocals. I'm open to someone showing me the connections if they can, but even then I'm betting it's stuff that connects back to earlier metal, because I can't hear any punk.

 

[cookiecutter]

Bands like Despised Icon have hardcore riffs in them. What's not to get? Listen to Despised Icon and then listen to a straight death metal band and you would hear a difference.