Mixing session done - band refuses to pay

I'm with James on this one. Business is business - if I am looking for someone to do a job for me, I make sure as hell that I generally know what I'm going to be charged before I approve any (I repeat any) work to be done. Shit, I don't let my mechanic that I've known for 20 years change a belt on my car without knowing what it will cost me.

As for using 'friend' count as a judgment of a bands ability to pay is quite frankly one of the most stupid things I've ever read. Should I also judge any other service oriented profession by how many idiots send them a friend request? I mean really? Really? I'm almost like James on this one - typing while stuttering those words. Really? One of the band members may be the wealthiest kid in his class, just the cheapest mother fucker in the world. Really?

OK, time to return to reality where people research purchases and understand what they have agreed to.
 
General communication failure all around i reckon.

Yes, they should pay and are legally up shit creek if they don't.

However you won't ever have the problem again if you're extra-super clear about your charges per unit time and also make it clear roughly how long adjustments will take AS THEY ARE ASKED FOR, not after the event. Clear, regular, decent conversation is all it takes
 
What I'd be thinking now is this; are the legal costs of getting that 600 from them going to exceed the 600 itself? If so... probably let it drop legally speaking.. but make sure that every self respecting AR that you know, knows about what happened.

If not; then investigate legal recourse.
 
You both fucked up on this one, broseph. Just give them a reduced rate and be happy you're getting any money at all. Lower your price on this one to fit (or stretch) their budget, and don't make the same mistake again!


And how is this band "legally up shit creek"??? There was no contract regarding prices, not even a verbal (textual in this case) one... If anything, you're legally closer to extortion than they are to anything else.
 
Honestly after all of this discussion, I'm more on the side of the band in this case. Not by much. Maybe by a PH. But I think that the complete lack of any timely communication/response by the OP, along with a total lack of any quote, is what pushes me in that direction.

I'm a sales manager, my company provides services to businesses. Before we start to provide service, we discuss the scope of service and the length that they'd like it for. Those factors determine what the starting points of pricing are. Maybe I'm a stupid bedroom recording n00b but I see this along the same lines. Yes we have general pricing on our site for some services, but everything the client wants is taken into consideration, a quote is made, and then there's a formal agreement - be it a signed contract, or simply an email saying "yes we agree to this service and this pricing".

There was none of that in any of the original correspondence. Yes it sucks to not get paid after doing work, and yes the band most likely did see the pricing on the page AND they weren't completely clear on the mixing, mastering, or both aspect of the job. Still, there was a total break of parameters and there was no official quote for service, that's what took the band by surprise. If I started providing a service to a new customer without any sort of quote and acceptance on file, I'd be lucky to keep my job.

I agree with the others, offering a discount and saying "yeah I f'd up and didn't give you guys a full quote and get your acceptance beforehand, here's what I'm willing to do" will go a LONG way. And if that olive branch isn't accepted, then I'd think the OP has a right to be miffed about the whole situation. But if things stay as the way they are... chalk it up to a bad experience, and move on.
 
I understand the confusion here.. the band clearly did not expect to have to pay this amount of money for one song though.. but then again you are 100% right to charge them and they should fullfill the payment in the end as you do have a legal agreement in the email(s).

future tip from Bob.. in the email where you use cursing words in the end you come off a bit too strong Tore, it's probably after that they decided not too pay at all anymore.
It's a shame, but another lesson learned.. having to do business via internet can be a bitch sometimes.
 
Jind said:
I'm with James on this one. Business is business - if I am looking for someone to do a job for me, I make sure as hell that I generally know what I'm going to be charged before I approve any (I repeat any) work to be done. Shit, I don't let my mechanic that I've known for 20 years change a belt on my car without knowing what it will cost me.

As for using 'friend' count as a judgment of a bands ability to pay is quite frankly one of the most stupid things I've ever read. Should I also judge any other service oriented profession by how many idiots send them a friend request? I mean really? Really? I'm almost like James on this one - typing while stuttering those words. Really? One of the band members may be the wealthiest kid in his class, just the cheapest mother fucker in the world. Really?

OK, time to return to reality where people research purchases and understand what they have agreed to.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
I don't get everyone who thinks the band is in the right. They recorded with the dude, used his time, therefore should pay him, end of story. If I went to say "loose stones" and say spent three days all up recording and mixing a single, it would cost me like $1500, which is what you would expect to pay for a pro studio. I know alot of people run their studios from their home, and mix mainly in the box (some with pirated plugins) so can mix and record at basically nothing. The band is in the wrong, they should have asked for his rates, and should know basic maths to add up the total cost.
 
He didn't record them, they sent him files to mix only. Thanks for playing Read-The-Thread! :lol:
 
Ok, I'll try to address some of the things you bring up (the critics that is; the rest: I want o make love to you):

*) Cursing: yes indeed. I cursed at the band, lo and behold. This after telling them the price, explaining the reason for the price, being met by 10 days of silence and when asking if they commenced with the payment (with bills stacking up and nothing coming in) getting an email explaining that they had basically looked at the price for MASTERING, taken that as the price for a full-length (while in reality it clearly says that it's flat rate) seeming to expect a price even lower than THAT even though it had absolutely nothing to do with mixing, and saying that there was absolutely no way they could pay. FFS, put it into context. It may not have been the perfect way to address it but I'm only human.

*) Lowering the price to meet an agreement: the band never once asked me for that, they didn't even try. They simply said there's no way they can pay. End of story. Plus, see above for what pricing they seemed to have in mind (speculation of course, but well grounded).

*) Slow with answering emails: there's a 10 day gap after I forgot to answer their second email. There is also 10 days of silence after they learned how much they'd have to pay. 10 days because of forgetting to answer an email: no problem because it was resolved. 10 days of silence to try to avoid the issue: yeah, very nice.

*) Contract, contract, over and over: There is an agreement, clearly. The price is stated on the site, clearly. I am absolutely convinced that I'd have no problem winning this in Swedish court. But:

*) As someone pointed out, 600 euros is nothing to go to court about, the legal costs will eat it up in no time. But perhaps I can just go through the process, and then tell my lawyer that there is no way I will be able to pay him.

*) "I think the band is right": give me a break...
 
Tgs, you are right and you are wrong.

1) You never start working without setting clear the payment demands you have (600euros for mixing mastering of one song is huge by the way, rick rubin takes less - joking)
2) the band is right and so are you. Both sides acted wrong. They didn't reminded you they need a price and made conclusions based on your website demands. You didn't asked a price and started working on their song.
3) without papers you cant prove your work, emails don't mean nothing, you didn't give a receipt, you didnt make papers, you didnt inform them on the emails for the price, court will do nothing at all because as I will say again there were miscommunications from both sides.
4) your price is huge for one song - they are right, you worked on that song and you need the money- you are right, you offer a better price - good move , they still find this huge - they are right, they dont pay you - they are wrong but....we talk about should have, ought to, ethics... this is not business what happened in this episode... mistakes all over the place.
5) NEVER mix a GREEK metal band. I am Greek, I know.
:)
 
re edit them without your name associated. badly produce them. edit them. add wierd sound effects in or overdubs about racial, sexual deviant behavior stuff and off the wall crap. make a myspace page and upload the nonsense . get the cartoon program that changes peoples pictures from pix to cartoon characters. use their pix from the myspace with it and upload your new pix to your myspace. change the names to parodies of their real names. like mike brown = michelle brownhole. jarod lag = jarod douchebag. stan boomer = shitstain boomerang. you get the idea.... sounds childish but you should get a good laugh out of it. I doubt you see any money. no offense by specially at 1 grand a song. Obviously they cant afford it or there would be no dispute as of now. Id do the band parody of them. screw it.
 
tug said:
Tgs, you are right and you are wrong.

1) You never start working without setting clear the payment demands you have (600euros for mixing mastering of one song is huge by the way, rick rubin takes less - joking)
2) the band is right and so are you. Both sides acted wrong. They didn't reminded you they need a price and made conclusions based on your website demands. You didn't asked a price and started working on their song.
3) without papers you cant prove your work, emails don't mean nothing, you didn't give a receipt, you didnt make papers, you didnt inform them on the emails for the price, court will do nothing at all because as I will say again there were miscommunications from both sides.
4) your price is huge for one song - they are right, you worked on that song and you need the money- you are right, you offer a better price - good move , they still find this huge - they are right, they dont pay you - they are wrong but....we talk about should have, ought to, ethics... this is not business what happened in this episode... mistakes all over the place.
5) NEVER mix a GREEK metal band. I am Greek, I know.
:)
Click to expand...

1) Clearly it would have avoided the issue. Still doesn't mean they shouldn't pay. You make it sound like you can pay a contractor whatever you feel like if they don't give you any estimate.
2) I started working because they prompted me to do it. (not featured in the email exchange is the letter they sent together with the files btw)
3) "emails don't mean nothing", I don't know why people keep bringing that one up, it's old. And incorrect.
4) I do not charge per song. I do not charge per song. I do not charge per song. Ok? This was a 9 minute track, all the drums needed to be replaced, one of the drums wasn't even recorded and had to be put in manually, they needed "samples" added to a section, the guitars were a mess, the bass was a mess, the vocals quite frankly sounded hilarious before I got them to sit right. It took the time it took. If it was 3 songs it would probably have taken the same time. Have you never mixed a song or a project? Are you completely unaware of initial setup time when starting from scratch? This is EXACTLY why I don't charge per song. I did a mix earlier this year, about 10 songs, took me 2 days. Charging per song makes no sense. The end.
5) Whatever.
 
tgs said:
1) Clearly it would have avoided the issue. Still doesn't mean they shouldn't pay. You make it sound like you can pay a contractor whatever you feel like if they don't give you any estimate.
2) I started working because they prompted me to do it. (not featured in the email exchange is the letter they sent together with the files btw)
3) "emails don't mean nothing", I don't know why people keep bringing that one up, it's old. And incorrect.
4) I do not charge per song. I do not charge per song. I do not charge per song. Ok? This was a 9 minute track, all the drums needed to be replaced, one of the drums wasn't even recorded and had to be put in manually, they needed "samples" added to a section, the guitars were a mess, the bass was a mess, the vocals quite frankly sounded hilarious before I got them to sit right. It took the time it took. If it was 3 songs it would probably have taken the same time. Have you never mixed a song or a project? Are you completely unaware of initial setup time when starting from scratch? This is EXACTLY why I don't charge per song. I did a mix earlier this year, about 10 songs, took me 2 days. Charging per song makes no sense. The end.
5) Whatever.
Click to expand...

Oh.. first of all I think you are way more right than the band. I sympathize for the "abuse" you received by them. I just tried to reach it from both angles.
1)They should pay at least the second offer you made or try to reach for a third offer or something.
2)This was a mistake by them, and at that point you should remind them the price issue.
3)I meant it dont mean nothing with no papers and receipts for payable services you did for them. It wont work in the court. They instead say "so you charge bands for services that you give no receipt of?" I might be wrong but that's what I know from a guy who had the same situation.
4)I understand it. ok.
5) :)
 
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