Movies

Maybe Ill add some salt to this debate. Ive read a review comparing 300 to German fascist propaganda films from the WWII. What do you think about this? It absolutely didnt occur to me as fascist when I was watching it. Maybe the glorification of the Spartan way of life, including the discarding of the afflicted newborns? I dont know. Does this review have a point in anything?
 
@ Marduk: Yes, it was about the Spartan way of life and also the way they displayed the Persians. It's a pretty weird debate. Afaik we Germans came up with that idea. We tend to overreact in matters of fascism and can see it even in places where there isn't any.
 
I wouldn't make a direct comparison to WWII propaganda-movies, but I must say the repeated "we fight for freedom!" sounded ridiculous to me, both in the historical concept (wasn't something like 80% of Spartan population slaves?) and in the obvious "message" the creators wanted to make. :Smug:

Still, 300 was mindless entertainment at its best: violent, hilarious and full of macho-bullshit. I wouldn't watch it again, but if they were to make a similar movie without all the unnecessary romantic elements (since when did Spartan men love women?) and with even more fighting, I'd go and pay to see it without hesitation.

-Villain
 
Villain said:
Still, 300 was mindless entertainment at its best: violent, hilarious and full of macho-bullshit. I wouldn't watch it again, but if they were to make a similar movie without all the unnecessary romantic elements (since when did Spartan men love women?) and with even more fighting, I'd go and pay to see it without hesitation.

-Villain
Click to expand...

I would leave out "mindless", and agree with the rest.

EDIT: Well, except maybe the not watching again part.
 
Villain said:
unnecessary romantic elements (since when did Spartan men love women?)
Click to expand...

Am I missing something about either the story or the movie? Obviously, I know homosexuality was commonplace back then, and it's likely obvious that being together for the sake of !WUB! was hardly a necessity, but assuming there were no heterosexual males who felt love for their female partner (official or unofficial) seems a little extreme. Seriously, am I misenterpreting what you just said?
 
rahvin said:
Am I missing something about either the story or the movie? Obviously, I know homosexuality was commonplace back then, and it's likely obvious that being together for the sake of !WUB! was hardly a necessity, but assuming there were no heterosexual males who felt love for their female partner (official or unofficial) seems a little extreme. Seriously, am I misenterpreting what you just said?
Click to expand...

It was just a poor attempt at sarcasm. My point was: for a movie that is supposedly all about the bloody action, way too much time is wasted on Leonidas' wife. And everyone at the theater (95% of whom were young males) agreed with me. It wasn't as bad as in LotR, but it felt like the creators tried to unnecessarily "soften up" the movie - probably to better market it to a female audience as well.

And no, I wouldn't have been any happier had they decided to change the nature of the romance to a homosexual one. I just wanted more bloodshed and less pillowtalk.

-Villain
 
Ahh, I get it now. You were saying it ironically, like it's something not exactly destined to steal any headline, and not worthy of much attention in such a movie either. Sorry for the irrelevant reply. Carry on. :p
 
rahvin said:
Sorry for the irrelevant reply.
Click to expand...
Ok, this leaves me with less things to comment upon. :p

As for the fascism, seriously, i'd consider it if the movie was actually made by Greeks (since it's promoting Greece, the Spartan way of life etc). But it wasn't. So i think the fascism thing is irrelevant as well.

And no, 80% of the Spartan population was not slaves. Spartans were free men and women. They had slaves, but those were not Spartans. Wanting to keep your freedom has nothing to do with whether you keep slaves or not. And the "let's fight for freedom" part was necessary in a "FREEEEEEDOM"-in-Braveheart kind of way.
 
Villain said:
Still, 300 was mindless entertainment at its best: violent, hilarious and full of macho-bullshit. I wouldn't watch it again, but if they were to make a similar movie without all the unnecessary romantic elements (since when did Spartan men love women?) and with even more fighting, I'd go and pay to see it without hesitation.
Click to expand...

"Pop-corn sneeze fest" you call them? Well, EYE didn't bother to see this one at least... :heh:

P:V - 1:0
 
Ah, of course the Spartans didn't historically count the slaves as citicens, but from our modern point of view they were a part of the Spartan population, nevertheless. They also formed a sizable portion of the Spartan army at some point, I recall. The movie kept reminding us of the slaves the Persians had, but intentionally avoided mentioning the Spartan slavery, as if to make some dubious moral statement.

I doubt the real Spartans needed to invent any "ethical" reasons to fight - they had an enemy and that was well enough. The Spartans kept warring (against other Greeks) long after Xerxes had been defeated, even though their freedom was not really threatened any longer. But in the context of how the movie was narrated, I can kind of understand the rhetoric: the whole movie was like a Spartan propaganda-tale, told to the other Greeks to turn them against the Persians. Thus, speaking about freedom and turning the whole war into some idealistic moral issue was not so wrong in that sense, I admit.

plintus said:
"Pop-corn sneeze fest" you call them? Well, EYE didn't bother to see this one at least... :heh:

P:V - 1:0
Click to expand...

I've got my weaknesses, mindless violence is one of them. :eek: Yet, unlike some others, I'm not calling a movie great on the sole basis of it being entertaining.

And you're going to see the third remake of the same "movie" (Pirates of the Crap, or what was it), so I believe the score is at least:

P:V - 1:100 :Smug:

-Villain
 
Saw 300 yesterday, simply awesome! :kickass: As me and Mrs.Gigi (her more than me) have been really of the artistic type :) , we were marveled by the special effects and the comic-style movie. We especially liked the part with the Whoracle ( :p ), that scene was great.

And how the wolf was done... mein gott that was amazing :zombie: :) .

I don't think there's a fascist connotation or anythingm that's just bs IMO :rolleyes: . True, they were rather discriminatory, but heck all Greeks were. They were so obsessed with the concept of beauty that if the new-born wasn't perfect they'd kill him, but that was everyone over there, not just Spartans :rolleyes: :) .
 
Villain said:
(since when did Spartan men love women?)
Click to expand...
Oh, i forgot to reply to this. I realise the context in which you posted this (ie more bloodshed, less romance), but i felt i had to make a point:
Women were very respected in the spartan society, in fact they had the highest position of all greek women. They would train in the same sports as men, and they would even participate in games naked (like men). This was of course part of the whole "let's breed war machines" mentality, which led to treating women as 'equals' to an extent, but it sure is an explanation as to why the queen has such an important role in the movie (besides the explanation you already gave, and that i don't disagree with). Btw, a couple of the things she said in the movie are real quotes.


Lil' Bloodred Ridin' Hood said:
True, they were rather discriminatory, but heck all Greeks were. They were so obsessed with the concept of beauty that if the new-born wasn't perfect they'd kill him, but that was everyone over there, not just Spartans .
Click to expand...
This is so incoherent i won't even try to break it down and decide which is the stupid part of it (if any).
 
Villain said:
I've got my weaknesses, mindless violence is one of them. :eek: Yet, unlike some others, I'm not calling a movie great on the sole basis of it being entertaining.

And you're going to see the third remake of the same "movie" (Pirates of the Crap, or what was it), so I believe the score is at least:

P:V - 1:100 :Smug:
Click to expand...

Mindless violence << Cpt. Jack Sparrow

As you saw 300, so the score actually is

1 vs 100-300 = -200

P:V = 1:-200
 
Siren said:
Oh, i forgot to reply to this. I realise the context in which you posted this (ie more bloodshed, less romance), but i felt i had to make a point:
Women were very respected in the spartan society, in fact they had the highest position of all greek women. They would train in the same sports as men, and they would even participate in games naked (like men). This was of course part of the whole "let's breed war machines" mentality, which led to treating women as 'equals' to an extent, but it sure is an explanation as to why the queen has such an important role in the movie (besides the explanation you already gave, and that i don't disagree with). Btw, a couple of the things she said in the movie are real quotes.
Click to expand...

Wikipedia confirms this, except the naked sports, thought it was a men only privilege o_O
 
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