Muslim Maniacs!

[Hubster]

thousands of years? I thought the pyramids were only 4000 years old

Ignore what is taught in history books for this point.

Its been proven that weather erosion on the Sphinx for example matches rainfall patterns and amounts of which would have occurred in a climate around approx 12,000 years ago to be exact.

 

[Neith]

Apparently history books don't matter on many of these discussions. Have they decided what they're going to do with the Sphinx because the last I heard they weren't sure how to support its head which is in danger of falling off. They were thinking to put an iron pole up through its base and neck Also, Norsemaiden, Speed's post simply said that they believe that it wasn't the slaves who built the pyramids; not that slaves didn't exist in Egypt.

But this isn't really on topic at all, apologies. I was talking a Syrian who said that it's pretty much safe to work there as long as you're not Danish, so i guess they are beginning to calm down now. Having said that, I haven't listened to the news in a while...

 

[Lord SteveO]

Well i saw on the news that in Pakistan some pissed off studnets burned down a KFC restaurant and are still rioting. Police killed a few of them in clashes last night.

Still ongoing, but now it just looks like its turning into an excuse to attack the western culture.
People lost interest in the cartoons a LONG time ago. This is now being stirred up to promote attacks on the west.

 

[Neith]

True about the last sentence, I just wonder how long it will be before the west finda another excuse to atttack the middle east? The whole thing is out of proportion and stupid on both sides, in my opinion and as stated by a lot of other people.

 

[Silver Incubus]

Well I just spent an hour reading this thread. Some interesitng things said. All I have to say is that Religion should be banned from the world and that would solve many of the worlds problems. By religion i mean any form of Organized Religion. Now of course that isn't do able but If I had the power to do so, I would in a second.

The truth may hurt, but just look at what the lies have done. I think some people are just to stupid to figure out that killing someone because they don't believe the lies that I believe is just wasteful of the worlds resources and time.

But then again, there is big money in relgious exploitaion, and I guess that is why it is still around today.

 

[derek]

Well I just spent an hour reading this thread. Some interesitng things said. All I have to say is that Religion should be banned from the world and that would solve many of the worlds problems. By religion i mean any form of Organized Religion. Now of course that isn't do able but If I had the power to do so, I would in a second.

The truth may hurt, but just look at what the lies have done. I think some people are just to stupid to figure out that killing someone because they don't believe the lies that I believe is just wasteful of the worlds resources and time.

But then again, there is big money in relgious exploitaion, and I guess that is why it is still around today.

"The Catholic Church in England and Wales is divided into twenty-two dioceses. It has eighteen diocesan welfare agencies to cover them, with more than 1,500 staff and a turnover of at least £30 million per annum."

ref: http://www.catholic-ew.org.uk/resource/cg/cg007.htm(para.4)

"This relationship between people and church was essentially based on money - hence the huge wealth of the Catholic Church."

ref:http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/RCC1500.htm(para.4-5)

The enormous turn over of the church alone is quite disturbing, it runs almost like a business. I'd put a heavy wager on the fact that much of that money is paid out into their current (and abhorrent) program of evangelisation in Africa (ie...join the church and we feed you, don't...and we don't care)

 

[infoterror]

Two topics here:

1) We should respect Islam and its culture. However, for it to be able to achieve its view of the world, it needs its own space. In the middle east, of course.

2) The Church in the West: how much a part of our culture is Christianity, and how much of Christianity is borrowed from our culture?

Personally, I've gotten less rabidly anti-Christian and more rabidly anti-dualistic; I am fanatically against individualistic morality and supportive of holistic morality, whether Christian, Islamic, atheist, Hitlerian, etc. doesn't matter.

 

[Crycheck]

I agree with you that the muslims are overreacting.But you must also know that cartoon of MOhammed is disrespectful to our beliefs...

A cartoon of Mohammed that DENMARK made makes muslims threat all of Scandinavia, and burn embassies.
What do you think is most disrespectful, the burning of a country's flag, or the cartoon of a man who no one have ever seen?
Scandinavia have got over a million muslims citizens by the way. People who have escaped war and got help.
I soon have no respect at all for muslims, I used to be racist but was lucky to come to my senses, but muslims are going too far, too often.

 

[Neith]

What do you think is most disrespectful, the burning of a country's flag, or the cartoon of a man who no one have ever seen?Scandinavia have got over a million muslims citizens by the way. People who have escaped war and got help.
I soon have no respect at all for muslims, I used to be racist but was lucky to come to my senses, but muslims are going too far, too often.

the above italicised and underlined section is kinda the point, he hasn't been seen since he was around and shouldn't be depicted AT ALL in their religion because it idolitry, (which Muhammed helped to get rid of when he was around) so as stated many times, it was basically disrespect and carelessness which led to them being published, and disrespect responded to it. As to burning a country's flag, whats the big deal? It's only a flag, man.

Also, probably one reason there was such a huge outcry over it is because the Americans and so on, are seriously interfering more and more with their culture, and countries. It is not right and they have probably had enough, the cartoons were likely just the icing on the cake, ya know? What do Iran, Iraq, The Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia have to answer to America for? They really shouldn't have to. The US aren't the world police, as much as it may resemble Team America.

As for the muslims living in Scandinavia and the rest of Europe, I'm sure a lot of them are very grateful.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

i forgot to point out that i think that much of the anger caused by the cartoons about Muhammed were not necessarily just because of the fact that they insulted him, but because they depicted him at all. Islam is different to christianity in that they do not have any pictures or statues, or any other such depictions of the prophet Muhammed or Allah, at all. These cartoons depicted him, and not only that but depicted him in a bad light.

I agree with this statement. However, as a Muslim, I'll be the first to say that a good part of the religion needs to modernize and a lot of us just need to either be killed or shut the hell up.

No, I'm not pleased about the whole carroon depiction of Mohammed (PBUH). I myself have chosen not to view the cartoons, because I have lived my entire life with no defined image of the Prophet and do not intend to sully it anytime soon.

However, I'm certain the jokes were probably funny and more than necessary. Eventually, maybe, my religion will lighten up. It doesn't seem likely, because Islam seems to have the monopoly when it comes to bigoted fundamentalist leaders corrupting everything.

I will always stand by the fact that Islam was intended to be a religion of peace, and it has defined and strengthened my peaceful existence. However, a faith is only as strong as the character of its followers. Religion only enforces morality. It does not create it, whisk it out of thin air. It must come from within. So, I will happily don a SWAT uniform and beat the living shit out of a rabid Islamist protester upset because a little cartoon from Denmark got his turban in a twist. If Hamas starts screwing us all, I'll write to Bush begging that he gas grenade the Gaza Strip to kingdom come.

I have grown weary of my religion falling under the world's critical microscope because of the stupidity of its followers and their actions/reactions. My faith lies in American Muslims and the inhabitants of countries that practice moderate Islam, i.e. Indonesia and Bangladesh.

As far as the criticisms of the treatment of women, my interpretation of the holy texts states that men and women are equal before the eyes of Allah and should be treted as such by each other. The practice of illiterates in backward rural areas of the Third World concern me not. Besides, there's just as much brutality in the backwards areas of every nation, just as irrational and just as (in)humanly depressing. They are poor representatives of the greater whole. Once-greater, I should say.

[/rant]

 

[infoterror]

I agree with you that the muslims are overreacting.But you must also know that cartoon of MOhammed is disrespectful to our beliefs...

Yes, but why do you care, if the cartoon is in Denmark? You have Arabia and surrounding lands.

...by the same token, I'm not sure Jews should be offended if the Danes publish Holocaust cartoons - or if the Iranians do, for that matter.

 

[The Winnipeg Warrior]

Somehow I feel I shouldn't have read this thread.

I agree. The temptation was there to jump right in. But after reading through, I'm glad I held off.

 

[Crycheck]

As to burning a country's flag, whats the big deal? It's only a flag, man.

It's only a character from a thousand year old book, man.

 

[Agent_Steel]

If they hadn't caused such a fuss over the drawing then people probably wud've been sympathetic toward them but now they've brought anger on themselves!

 

[derek]

If they hadn't caused such a fuss over the drawing then people probably wud've been sympathetic toward them but now they've brought anger on themselves!

I voiced something similar earlier on. Had their leaders said something diplomatic and understanding it would have been ok. I think free speech is important, but they had a right to say "hold on, we don't find that funny. please avoid such things is future". Instead they fulfilled the stereotype, grabbed a bunch of rusty knives and went infidel hunting.

The muslim community now fully deserve the satire being heaped upon them by shows like the Colbert (sp?) Report.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Here is something worth knowing about a possible strike by the US on Iran's nuclear facilities.
This quote is fromhysicians for Social Responsibility (part of an international organisation awarded the 1985 Noble Peace Prize)

"The use of a 1.2 megaton RNEP weapon on the Iranian underground nuclear weapons storage site at Isfahan would lead tothe deaths of over three million people within 48 hours, half from the effects of radiation. The fallout would spread over a wide area embracing Iran, India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, with over 35 million people receiving significant doses of radiation within four days. Many, if not all of the approximate 20,000 American armed forces, intelligence and diplomatic personnel deployed in Afghanistan would also be at risk of exposure at the anticipated radiation levels."
http://www.sfbaypsr.org/n_f05_usnuc.html

 

[Lord SteveO]

Interesting. But i doubt they'd use a nuke if the risk was so high.

Out of interest, am i the only person here who thinks that one possiblilty is that in its bid to develop a nuclear weapon, Iran has an accident and irradiates/kills a large number of its people?
I think they are so interested in getting a nuke that they may well make a mistake and the resulting accident will cause a lot of trouble.
Such an incident would leave Iran in a funny place: ask for help, probably fro mthe west where we know how to deal with such accidents, or, shun the west and hide the trouble therefore harming your own people and your reputation.

I see it as one possibility. In N.Korea there are always big accidents that cause massive deaths, but the government ignore western help. Such an incident in Iran would be interesting for the region's politics.

 

[Hubster]

... how far do we have to go in the West to avoid upsetting Muslim feelings?

This is a totally invalid and media-biased statement. See Christian extremism across America and consider how much innocent Muslims must step on eggshells for a capitalist and extreme Christian public blinded by the media.

Extremist Muslims make up less than 5%-10% of the worlds Muslim population, and the "true" Muslims, the modern Muslims, are peaceloving people who are more than willing to modernise and find ways to balance their faith with western life. Not only that, but extremist Muslims are heavily frowned upon by the majority of the peaceloving Muslim world.

You must consider that the countries in which much extremism occurs in the Islamic world are those which are limited in high level education. These countries ARE developing (e.g. Afghanistan) but this takes time. Teething is never an easy process.

... In cities in Britain where there are Muslims working in offices with normal British people there has been pressure put on the non-Muslims to cover their arms and legs during the hot summer days when it makes sense to have short sleeves.

Those pressures are probably being put forth by Muslims who are also extreme and should be ignored. The media again simply takes the bite as usual and the masses swallow it whole.

... what of the large number of British people who find the sight of Muslims in traditional dress (in Britain) offensive. The law is often more concerned with protecting the feelings of the minority than the feelings of the majority. The exception to this is when the head wear (hajib) was banned in France for Muslim schoolgirls - but Britain is unwilling to do this too.

The British public (I generalise, but do not speak for 100% of English people of course) is becoming highly racist: my people, Sikhs, have a prominent population in England. When I lived there (I was born in the UK), the racism I experienced in england at school was extreme, I experienced violence constantly as a result of me wearing a turban and having dark skin and brown eyes. Yes, really. I cut my hair as a result when I was 14.

Since then, various reports from my family in the UK confirm that racism there has escalated considerably. Indians, Pakistani's, Africans, Middle-Eastern people are experiencing oppression for not being western. This is disgusting - they provide businesses for the ecomony and try hard to lead honest lives, and this is the treatment?

Before you decide to retort, one of my relatives in the UK is the first Sikh member of parliament, he is highly educated and has studied hard. Many other ethnic kids will follow suit as the generations pass. This is positive for Eastern and Western people combined as one.

The government needs to balance its focus on the minority with that of the majority. FYI - Islamic people in England are not a minority: Islam is the fast growing religion in England, get the facts please!

Britain should NOT be willing to have the hajib banned. It has NO right. These kids in the UK consider themselves Western/English- Indians, or Africans, Middle-Eastern etc, they pride themselves in being able to diversify. These draconian laws imposed by France do NOTHING to improve the situation and are disgusting.

I cannot believe you even brought these things up: "least conformist?" - I highly doubt that. Your comments above combined with those about Jews previously depict a level of conformism, a far-right tendency, and acceptance of what you see in the media!

I'm sorry Norsemaiden, but your comments have offended me on a racial level and I wont tolerate it from anyone.

 

[Lord SteveO]

The fact is that here with this issue, we are having to deal with a RELIGION which is intolerant of others.
This is not a RACE issue, it is a religious one.

Whilst i admit in this country there is racism, it is rasicm because idiots who do it know no better. On 9/11 a group of middle-eastern/asian muslims commited a terrorist act. But these racist idiots don't understand that race had nothing to do with it. They just assume all people from those areas are racist, even though race had nothing to do with the event.
It was religious and always will be.
Making laws against doing certain things to protect a religious minority from harm in not a race issue. It is nothing to do with race, but yet the media and others get the two confused. This is where a lot of trouble comes from.

What i have a problem with at the moment is intollerant muslims who think their religious beliefs should be used to police the world or my country. I don't care if they are asian muslims, arabic or from the many other countries where the religion is dominant. What i dislike is their wanting to use their religious rules to make us non-mulsims conform to their ways.
Banning Christmas so as not to offend muslims?!? That is using their rules in a country that is prodominantly christian. Its' ridiculous. Banning the head scarf is simply doing the same in the opposite direction, so that christians are not offended and trouble is not stirred up.

I'm not racist, and i never will be. I have no problem with multi-culturalism either. But what i do have a problem with is when a religious group form the other side of the world tries to make the western world work their way simply because they are intollerant of other cultures and ways.

 

[Norsemaiden]

This is a totally invalid and media-biased statement. See Christian extremism across America and consider how much innocent Muslims must step on eggshells for a capitalist and extreme Christian public blinded by the media.

Extremist Muslims make up less than 5%-10% of the worlds Muslim population, and the "true" Muslims, the modern Muslims, are peaceloving people who are more than willing to modernise and find ways to balance their faith with western life. Not only that, but extremist Muslims are heavily frowned upon by the majority of the peaceloving Muslim world.

You must consider that the countries in which much extremism occurs in the Islamic world are those which are limited in high level education. These countries ARE developing (e.g. Afghanistan) but this takes time. Teething is never an easy process.



Those pressures are probably being put forth by Muslims who are also extreme and should be ignored. The media again simply takes the bite as usual and the masses swallow it whole.



The British public (I generalise, but do not speak for 100% of English people of course) is becoming highly racist: my people, Sikhs, have a prominent population in England. When I lived there (I was born in the UK), the racism I experienced in england at school was extreme, I experienced violence constantly as a result of me wearing a turban and having dark skin and brown eyes. Yes, really. I cut my hair as a result when I was 14.

Since then, various reports from my family in the UK confirm that racism there has escalated considerably. Indians, Pakistani's, Africans, Middle-Eastern people are experiencing oppression for not being western. This is disgusting - they provide businesses for the ecomony and try hard to lead honest lives, and this is the treatment?

Before you decide to retort, one of my relatives in the UK is the first Sikh member of parliament, he is highly educated and has studied hard. Many other ethnic kids will follow suit as the generations pass. This is positive for Eastern and Western people combined as one.

The government needs to balance its focus on the minority with that of the majority. FYI - Islamic people in England are not a minority: Islam is the fast growing religion in England, get the facts please!

Britain should NOT be willing to have the hajib banned. It has NO right. These kids in the UK consider themselves Western/English- Indians, or Africans, Middle-Eastern etc, they pride themselves in being able to diversify. These draconian laws imposed by France do NOTHING to improve the situation and are disgusting.

I cannot believe you even brought these things up: "least conformist?" - I highly doubt that. Your comments above combined with those about Jews previously depict a level of conformism, a far-right tendency, and acceptance of what you see in the media!

I'm sorry Norsemaiden, but your comments have offended me on a racial level and I wont tolerate it from anyone.

Most of what lord SteveO said in response to this post is what I would agree with, and half I would disagree with, but do not feel free to explain so I'll shut up about that!
I wonder why education makes Islamists less extreme. Isn't it making them less religious also, and making them pay lip service to the religion and not even properly study the Koran for example? I have heard that the teenage Islamic population in the West is more extreme than their parents who emigrated here. If that is true it sounds a bit ominous.
The wearing of the hajib is seen by westerners as oppressive to women as is the whole body coverup tradition. Western governments feel that they should do something about the ill treatment of women - making them feel obliged to cover up or to have arranged marriages against their will. In this way there is conflict between the cultures. You say that you find such attempts by the West "disgusting". (Personally I am opposed both to integration by trying to make other cultures fit in with ours and also with multiculturalism - so I do not advocate banning the hajib). So the feminist argument repulses you then?
I did already know Islam is the fastest growing religion (because of high birth rate, high immigration of Islamic people compared with low indiginous birthrate). Could it be attempted colonisation perhaps? The extremists boast that it is.
The general hostility in Britain is simmering under the surface, no one feels free to speak out about it because of the race law. No one is going to talk to you about it as you are a Sikh. Multicultualism and race laws have made it necessary to lie and so there is a two-faced deceptive niceness which covers up real fury amongst many of the men - much less so amongst women.
The whole hating other people because they look different is very stupid but it is human nature. People who are disfigured have this problem. A biological group will unthinkingly pick on the odd one out.
Wanting foreign races out of one's country does not have to be based on trivially disliking their looks though, it can be to do with tribalism and identity - a general feeling that one's territory is being usurped.

Sikhs are a group that I have more respect for than for Hindus or Islamists. You believe in the homeland, Kalistan, do you?