Nazism and Asatru

[Krigloch the Furious]

*raises hand* actually I DO want to be Asatru. but like I've said before, its not that easy.
for now I'll go on just hailing my ancestors. thats good enough.

 

[Bates]

Heh, yeah. I apologize, but I do think Vikings are cool. And the mythology. And I still don't get nationalism, sorry Celtik.


I look down at the board, and realize I need to find something else do with myself in the winter.

 

[Tyra]

*raises hand* actually I DO want to be Asatru. but like I've said before, its not that easy.
for now I'll go on just hailing my ancestors. thats good enough.

And if you truly are supposed to be asatru, one of these days, they'll answer you back. In the meantime, you're supposed to learn everything there is to learn about what it means to be asatru in all facets of life. See, you do get it (I know you do, cuz you and I have both been on this forum for long enough to pretty much know where the land lies), you just don't know that you do, and for some reason, that's typical for those who end up becoming the truest! My gythia says that the gods do not give anything to anyone that is a wannabe (paraphrasing). It's those that don't seem to want it at all (me) that are chosen. In other words, brownnosers need not apply. Krigly, you do get it, if what you're doing right now is hailing your ancestors.

 

[Tyra]

I look down at the board, and realize I need to find something else do with myself in the winter.

Geez, dude, do I really have to explain everything??? Well, I guess that's what I get for being a mother...You are a male. Males come with anatomic parts that can keep y'all busy in summer as well as winter. All you have to do is apply pressure and pull. Repeat. I am not going to be more explicit than that, cuz Knarfi and some of the other dudes are, like, 15 y.o. give or take a few either way.

 

[Bates]

This is really starting to sounds like the world's most fucked up advice column, hehe.

What can I say... small house with 3 kids running about. The oldest of which is insatiably nosy. I love him, but man, that bugs the shit out of me, I'm one of those 'really-private-unless-I-choose-to-share' people. And half the time I do, everyone wishes I didn't. This would fall into that category, I do believe.

... Even I'm not really sure what the fuck I just said.

 

[Ragnaroksprophet]

I didn't care to read everything that was said....but I did want to give my two cents concerning the whole "Only people of northern european descent can worship norse gods/why don't people follow the religion of their own culture".

First of all, there are two types of people in this forum (maybe more). You need to ask yourself which type you are.

The first type is the type that beliefs there IS a truth in a religion, and they want to find that truth.

The second type looks at religion as more of a cultural thing...something spiritual perhaps...but this type of person doesn't seem to care about the concept that religion to many people is about truth, not culture.

If you are the second type of person, you may not understand fully where I am coming from, but-
Religion should not be tied to culture or ethnicity. If that's the case, then only people of hebrew/middle eastern descent can be christians. If thats the case then only Indians can be Buddhist..even though Buddhism is most popular in EAST europe, rather than India. This concept is foolish IF your looking at it from type 1 persons point of veiw. I am a type one person. I follow the Asatruar teachings, because I am pulled to it. I find truth in it, and I believe it. I am three quarters scandinavian, and a quarter native american. should i not worship norse gods because im not entirely norse? What if I dont believe that Mohawk Gods are real? What if I dont believe the christian god exists? What if I feel that the earth was created from fire and ice, and that Asgard exists and Christian heavan does not? Because im not entirely germanic, I should...worship other gods that are false? Or rather, maybe I should blend my religions....3 parts norse and 1 part Mohawk....See what I'm getting at? Some of us believe in a religion because we BELIEVE in it. It isn't about cultural identity to us...or it shouldn't be.

That is my two cents. Thank you.

 

[Pessimism]

I guess those who can't pick a side are fjucked

 

[Knarfi]

im an atheist, wich group would you put me in?

 

[Ragnaroksprophet]

im an atheist, wich group would you put me in?

Type two.

 

[Knarfi]

Type two.

okay, so you say i believe religion is cultural, and it doesnt matter to me if the religion is true?

nah, if that was true i would be christian, and i hate christianity.
i do love asatru and all, but something in me just cant fully believe in any religion.

 

[Pessimism]

For me with most things, it's the leap of blind faith you have to take with the lack of evidence. Even when dispelling the evidence, and taking a rationalistic point of view (expelling the concept of Pascal's Wager and other bullshit) I still cannot truly give myself to a deity because of the noticable evolution of the characters throughout time, and conection through geographical location and even of anthropomorphized concepts around the globe....you can blame human misunderstanding on the nature of God (which is the most common response) but....yeah......[/rant-I don't know what I'm talking about anymore]

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

I didn't care to read everything that was said....but I did want to give my two cents concerning the whole "Only people of northern european descent can worship norse gods/why don't people follow the religion of their own culture".

First of all, there are two types of people in this forum (maybe more). You need to ask yourself which type you are.

The first type is the type that beliefs there IS a truth in a religion, and they want to find that truth.

The second type looks at religion as more of a cultural thing...something spiritual perhaps...but this type of person doesn't seem to care about the concept that religion to many people is about truth, not culture.

If you are the second type of person, you may not understand fully where I am coming from, but-
Religion should not be tied to culture or ethnicity. If that's the case, then only people of hebrew/middle eastern descent can be christians. If thats the case then only Indians can be Buddhist..even though Buddhism is most popular in EAST europe, rather than India. This concept is foolish IF your looking at it from type 1 persons point of veiw. I am a type one person. I follow the Asatruar teachings, because I am pulled to it. I find truth in it, and I believe it. I am three quarters scandinavian, and a quarter native american. should i not worship norse gods because im not entirely norse? What if I dont believe that Mohawk Gods are real? What if I dont believe the christian god exists? What if I feel that the earth was created from fire and ice, and that Asgard exists and Christian heavan does not? Because im not entirely germanic, I should...worship other gods that are false? Or rather, maybe I should blend my religions....3 parts norse and 1 part Mohawk....See what I'm getting at? Some of us believe in a religion because we BELIEVE in it. It isn't about cultural identity to us...or it shouldn't be.

That is my two cents. Thank you.

Since you do have Scandinavian ancestry there is more chance of you "understanding Asatru" and can relate to it than a Singaporean, if you now what I mean? Christianity is clearly man made, and only Jews can be Jewish, so your argument is pretty invalid. Anyway, who the hell wants to be a Shristian and be have to be ruled by the Hebrews? Well I guess that's what they are at the moment, but yeah...

 

[Celtik Militia]

I didn't care to read everything that was said....but I did want to give my two cents concerning the whole "Only people of northern european descent can worship norse gods/why don't people follow the religion of their own culture".

First of all, there are two types of people in this forum (maybe more). You need to ask yourself which type you are.

The first type is the type that beliefs there IS a truth in a religion, and they want to find that truth.

The second type looks at religion as more of a cultural thing...something spiritual perhaps...but this type of person doesn't seem to care about the concept that religion to many people is about truth, not culture.

If you are the second type of person, you may not understand fully where I am coming from, but-
Religion should not be tied to culture or ethnicity. If that's the case, then only people of hebrew/middle eastern descent can be christians. If thats the case then only Indians can be Buddhist..even though Buddhism is most popular in EAST europe, rather than India. This concept is foolish IF your looking at it from type 1 persons point of veiw. I am a type one person. I follow the Asatruar teachings, because I am pulled to it. I find truth in it, and I believe it. I am three quarters scandinavian, and a quarter native american. should i not worship norse gods because im not entirely norse? What if I dont believe that Mohawk Gods are real? What if I dont believe the christian god exists? What if I feel that the earth was created from fire and ice, and that Asgard exists and Christian heavan does not? Because im not entirely germanic, I should...worship other gods that are false? Or rather, maybe I should blend my religions....3 parts norse and 1 part Mohawk....See what I'm getting at? Some of us believe in a religion because we BELIEVE in it. It isn't about cultural identity to us...or it shouldn't be.

That is my two cents. Thank you.

ok. i agree with you.
but to give an example... i knew an italian guy who was all about viking mythology and shit... and he didn't know jack ass about roman mythology... i mean at the time i wasn't an expert in roman myths, but i knew ten times more then him about HIS OWN ancestral culture. i'm giving this example to say that many people look on nordic mythology because its today's trend, and they don't know shit about their own religion. hence how can they freely decide which religion sounds the truest to them if they only know one or two? (christianity, and the first pagan religion which got to them)

i'm absolutely certain Bloodland doesnt know shit about phoenician paganism... yet he should check it out considering he's maltan.

Personnally i'm of germanic, celtic and perhaps latin heritage (i'm not sure for my latin heritage.. even though i'm french.. there is no proof of my latin blood because it would be to far to trace back.. even though the romans conquered the territory i'm born in its not certain they interbreeded enough to make people like me of latin blood) and i checked out all these pagan religions. roman paganism doesnt feel true to me.. i am more attracted to germanic and celtic paganism.. but thats because i took the time to study each one. i didnt just discover asatru and feel "oh wow thats so awsome, vikings kicked ass, i want to be asatru". i felt the pagan religions, i felt close to some. I don't fully believe but i LIKE to believe in both celtic an germanic myths. the problem today is that many people WANT to believe in "cool" paganism instead of being drawn to it. Thats what i critisize.

 

[Tyra]

i'm absolutely certain Bloodland doesnt know shit about phoenician paganism... yet he should check it out considering he's maltan.

What makes you think he isn't? It's just a lot more difficult to find out some of the things he wants to know about the pre-Christian religion in Malta than it is to find out the corresponding info re asatru in the north. Even more to the point, what he wants to know about is even older than the Phoenician stuff, the stuff that his people shared with mine and that eventually melded with another new faith to become asatru proper up north. In that context, doesn't it seem logical for him to search through the asatru basics in order to find the roots of it in his own homeland?
Malta is an island in the geographical sense, but in a cultural sense, no European culture has been completely un-influenced by another culture at some point. He's just choosing to start his search closer in time than you are. So, although I unserstand what you mean, I think what he's doing is using my heriatge as a path to his own. As for me, I don't really care which road he takes, as long as he gets where he's supposed to go. Who knows, maybe while he's searching, he'll find something completely different that feels just right, or maybe he finds that religion isn't for him at all.

 

[Pessimism]

Since you do have Scandinavian ancestry there is more chance of you "understanding Asatru" and can relate to it than a Singaporean, if you now what I mean? Christianity is clearly man made, and only Jews can be Jewish, so your argument is pretty invalid. Anyway, who the hell wants to be a Shristian and be have to be ruled by the Hebrews? Well I guess that's what they are at the moment, but yeah...

Man...

 

[Larsson]

Since you do have Scandinavian ancestry there is more chance of you "understanding Asatru" and can relate to it than a Singaporean, if you now what I mean? Christianity is clearly man made, and only Jews can be Jewish, so your argument is pretty invalid. Anyway, who the hell wants to be a Shristian and be have to be ruled by the Hebrews? Well I guess that's what they are at the moment, but yeah...

Asatru is not?

 

[Ragnaroksprophet]

Asatru is not?

Some of us would say "Not entirely".

And I don't feel my arguement is invalid at all. My point was, if your looking for TRUTH in religion, then it isn't always right to simply believe in what your ancestors believed. Though I do agree that very often, your ethnicity helps you to understand or be drawn to a religion of your ethnicity then something much different.

 

[Bates]

This is almost as much fun as when the preachers try to talk religion with me. (I have a lot of churches as customers, hehe)

 

[Tyra]

My favourite time of the week is when the JoHo's come over. I believe I posted here somewhere that the last time they came knocking, I was sound asleep and dressed in my Odin PJs and Thor's hammer. We'd also just come back from some event or demo or whatever, so not only was I dessed like a heathn with my long heateh hair on end, but I was tired and grumpy (they woke me up on a weekend, damn it - that's against my personal religion), but the front hallway was loaded with broadswords, scramaseaxes, helms and scale mail. I didn't even have to say anything that time. They just left in a real hurry, and looked quite horrified, and even apologized for having bothered me as they backed down off the porch at that. They have not been back since. Gee, I wonder why. Mind you, I have the car parked right in front of the house. It's now got a sticker that reads "Loki loves me. Oh crap!". Maybe that's why??

 

[Bates]

LOL. I just look at them, and they usually leave. The advantage of generally looking like a disgruntled wild animal. I've argued with a few, a time or two, but they're honestly pretty fucking boring.