Need feedback on the black metal project *sigh*
- Thread starter Erkan
- Start date
very very nice, please give some details on the guitars other than the distortion. perhaps you could fill in the bottom a little bit and lower the snare a tad, but it sounds great otherwise. good song and riffing too, I'm very into the cause of black metal.
Awesome replies guys, much more awesome than I was expecting at first to be honest.
I will get back to you on the guitars, probably tonight!
I will get back to you on the guitars, probably tonight!
John_C
formerly Skeksis268
The kick has a little too much bass, when i put a -4db low shelf at 100hz the mix seemed to clear a lot. Maybe if you let the bass guitar have some more of that low space it would sound good.
Also the guitars are sounding a little harsh around 2.5khz, perhaps ease off there a little?
shaving off 2db at 120-200hz seemed to help a bit, i think it's the bass that's causing the problem there.
But seriously, overall this is a brilliant sounding mix.
EDIT: i agree with people above about the guitars
Also the guitars are sounding a little harsh around 2.5khz, perhaps ease off there a little?
shaving off 2db at 120-200hz seemed to help a bit, i think it's the bass that's causing the problem there.
But seriously, overall this is a brilliant sounding mix.
EDIT: i agree with people above about the guitars
I am amazed! Havn't heard much of your stuff, but this is great!
The guitartone suits the style and mix perfectly imo.
And as someone said, the drums sounds better than usual black metal
Still they don't sound over produced, which is perfect!
All I can say, really good job, and nice drumming
The guitartone suits the style and mix perfectly imo.
And as someone said, the drums sounds better than usual black metal
Still they don't sound over produced, which is perfect!
All I can say, really good job, and nice drumming
Oh crap, and I went bananas on the kick's bass today and boosted the subs a bit
Maybe I should take your advice and back down a bit... or well, I need to back down even more now that I have boosted it in version 2.I did however boost the lows on the bass guitar too, among a couple other changes to it! Think I did something to the mids and highs as well, most likely boosted or shifted the boost up or down on the spectrum to find a sweeter spot. I'm kinda senile and tired right now, urgh.
About the guitars, I have already adjusted in that area but I'm not sure if you'll find it less harsh really... hope you can listen again and give some feedback.
The 120-200 hz area has probably been adjusted but I don't remember shaving it off really... hmm, as I said, hope you can listen again and update your feedback
Thank you very much!
I am amazed! Havn't heard much of your stuff, but this is great!
The guitartone suits the style and mix perfectly imo.
And as someone said, the drums sounds better than usual black metal
Still they don't sound over produced, which is perfect!
All I can say, really good job, and nice drumming
Thanks man! Yeah, I think the drums are keeping a good balance between crystal clear and produced sound, and trash dirty "ass" sound
Thank you once again!
For those who wanted some info about the guitars:
There really isn't much going on, but here is what there is to say.
He used a Gibson Flying V, I'm not sure which model and stuff but I remember it was somewhere around the 1200$ mark (the retail price). He used the stock pickups, which I'm not sure about when it comes to Gibson but they were passives. It went into a Hughes & Kettner Warp Factor distortion pedal (which I bought just to try, it was on sale!) with the gain on 11 o'clock, the "Warp" knob on 3 o'clock and Level on 12 o'clock or slightly more. Then I just used an impulse that me and him picked out for this project, which happened to be "Diezel v30 SM57 (6505 PowerAmp).wav" (I'm not sure who made this impulse).
That was basically it for each individual guitar track, but then they all got passed to a guitar group which had an Exciter (a free exciter which is simply called "Exciter") with the settings: 9.91 on Cut Off freq, 199.9 on Drive and 1.14 on Amount. This was because the distortion coupled with the impulse got quite dark, so instead of just using an EQ to brighten it up, I dirtied it up a bit with the exciter, and at the same time brightening it. Then comes an EQ that rolls down from 100 hz and below, dips down quite a lot at 200 hz with a narrow Q (partly to make some room for the snare's body), and then starts boosting from 1k to 2k by just a couple dBs and dips down at 3.8k with a narrow Q to make some room for the snare's crack, then starts rolling down gently from 5k all the way to 14k or so (very wide curve to the low pass so to speak). Then comes a compressor, to make sure all the guitars are glueing onto each other, with fast attack and release, threshold at -13 dB or so, Ratio at 8:1 but no Auto Gain Makeup. All in all, it only shaves off 2-4 dBs from the guitar group, it's just to make sure nothing sticks out unusually alot or so to speak.
It's nothing ground breaking, so I'm not sure if you'll find the info useful but there it is
There really isn't much going on, but here is what there is to say.
He used a Gibson Flying V, I'm not sure which model and stuff but I remember it was somewhere around the 1200$ mark (the retail price). He used the stock pickups, which I'm not sure about when it comes to Gibson but they were passives. It went into a Hughes & Kettner Warp Factor distortion pedal (which I bought just to try, it was on sale!) with the gain on 11 o'clock, the "Warp" knob on 3 o'clock and Level on 12 o'clock or slightly more. Then I just used an impulse that me and him picked out for this project, which happened to be "Diezel v30 SM57 (6505 PowerAmp).wav" (I'm not sure who made this impulse).
That was basically it for each individual guitar track, but then they all got passed to a guitar group which had an Exciter (a free exciter which is simply called "Exciter") with the settings: 9.91 on Cut Off freq, 199.9 on Drive and 1.14 on Amount. This was because the distortion coupled with the impulse got quite dark, so instead of just using an EQ to brighten it up, I dirtied it up a bit with the exciter, and at the same time brightening it. Then comes an EQ that rolls down from 100 hz and below, dips down quite a lot at 200 hz with a narrow Q (partly to make some room for the snare's body), and then starts boosting from 1k to 2k by just a couple dBs and dips down at 3.8k with a narrow Q to make some room for the snare's crack, then starts rolling down gently from 5k all the way to 14k or so (very wide curve to the low pass so to speak). Then comes a compressor, to make sure all the guitars are glueing onto each other, with fast attack and release, threshold at -13 dB or so, Ratio at 8:1 but no Auto Gain Makeup. All in all, it only shaves off 2-4 dBs from the guitar group, it's just to make sure nothing sticks out unusually alot or so to speak.
It's nothing ground breaking, so I'm not sure if you'll find the info useful but there it is
New version:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/585020/wtfAWESOMEmix_v2.mp3
Updated the first post with a little info, but all in all, there's more bass to the kick (probably too much since Skeksis already pointed out there was too much in version 1), and there's some general fiddling with the EQ on guitars and bass, and the OH on the drums and stuff.
Also, I have probably pushed it too hard and there's clipping going on.
I feel like I might've broken the mix... have I? I like version 2 because it feels like it has more power than version 1, but I don't know. Maybe I just need to back down on the volume, and the bass on the kick drum (perhaps more tweaking on the guitars?).
Throw me some new feedback if possible! Cheers
Edit: Mmm, I definately like the snare's body better in version 2.
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/585020/wtfAWESOMEmix_v2.mp3
Updated the first post with a little info, but all in all, there's more bass to the kick (probably too much since Skeksis already pointed out there was too much in version 1), and there's some general fiddling with the EQ on guitars and bass, and the OH on the drums and stuff.
Also, I have probably pushed it too hard and there's clipping going on.
I feel like I might've broken the mix... have I?
I like version 2 because it feels like it has more power than version 1, but I don't know. Maybe I just need to back down on the volume, and the bass on the kick drum (perhaps more tweaking on the guitars?).Throw me some new feedback if possible! Cheers
Edit: Mmm, I definately like the snare's body better in version 2.
I just read your edit. And yes, the snare is much better! Really good.
Guitars are a little bit louder, which is good
Indeed v2 has more power Kind of a battlefield in the lowend at times though.
I think the kick should come up a bit. Maybe lower the lows in the kick the way you want it too be ('cause you said you wanted to ^^ ) and then lower them more, and turn the volume up.
There is some frequenzy in the bass guitar I don't like.. Don't have time to experiment with it now though. But it's in the low-mids.
Guitars are a little bit louder, which is good
Indeed v2 has more power
Kind of a battlefield in the lowend at times though.I think the kick should come up a bit. Maybe lower the lows in the kick the way you want it too be ('cause you said you wanted to ^^ ) and then lower them more, and turn the volume up.
There is some frequenzy in the bass guitar I don't like.. Don't have time to experiment with it now though. But it's in the low-mids.
I just read your edit. And yes, the snare is much better! Really good.
Guitars are a little bit louder, which is good
Indeed v2 has more power
I think the kick should come up a bit. Maybe lower the lows in the kick the way you want it too be ('cause you said you wanted to ^^ ) and then lower them more, and turn the volume up.
There is some frequenzy in the bass guitar I don't like.. Don't have time to experiment with it now though. But it's in the low-mids.
Awesome feedback, I'll make sure to keep it in mind for version 3 Carl!
Thanks
Yeah, I like v2 more, too
How many guitar tracks are there? 2 per side? Great guitar and drum sound!!! I just ordered Warp Factor after listenig to these clips
Great work, dude!
How many guitar tracks are there? 2 per side? Great guitar and drum sound!!! I just ordered Warp Factor after listenig to these clips
Great work, dude!
John_C
formerly Skeksis268
the guitars sound better and the extra volume has really helped them. I'd say drop the verb on them completely though, or at least lower it a lot, they're sounding a little smoothed over atm. Perhaps a nastier sounding verb would be better if you are going to use any on guitars?
the kick sounded better in v1, although i still say it needs less bass.
tip for reverb, put it on seperate tracks and high pass it. This helps clarity as it keeps the low end tight while giving the high end the "space" you want.
overall the verb is making the drums overall sound more real (although ofc they are real in the first place, but you know what i mean) and makes them fit the style better, good work.
If you've got verb on the bass guitar, i'd say get rid of it for clarities sake. I feel the need for more distortion on the bass, but that's very much just my taste for black metal.
I'm still finding myself wanting to take off 2db of lower mids, it seems a little too busy down there. Maybe some multiband compression on the bass guitar from 100 to 300hz. Without any makeup gain, just to bring down the fundamental freq of some of the higher bass notes. That is what my ears are telling me is going on, but i could be wrong
EDIT: perhaps 100 to 200 on the bass guitar, i cant hear anything wrong with it above 200
the kick sounded better in v1, although i still say it needs less bass.
tip for reverb, put it on seperate tracks and high pass it. This helps clarity as it keeps the low end tight while giving the high end the "space" you want.
overall the verb is making the drums overall sound more real (although ofc they are real in the first place, but you know what i mean) and makes them fit the style better, good work.
If you've got verb on the bass guitar, i'd say get rid of it for clarities sake. I feel the need for more distortion on the bass, but that's very much just my taste for black metal.
I'm still finding myself wanting to take off 2db of lower mids, it seems a little too busy down there. Maybe some multiband compression on the bass guitar from 100 to 300hz. Without any makeup gain, just to bring down the fundamental freq of some of the higher bass notes. That is what my ears are telling me is going on, but i could be wrong
EDIT: perhaps 100 to 200 on the bass guitar, i cant hear anything wrong with it above 200
John_C
formerly Skeksis268
it is audibly clipping as well as you said, i say back off any mastering effort for now and get the mix perfect first
Yeah, I like v2 more, too
How many guitar tracks are there? 2 per side? Great guitar and drum sound!!! I just ordered Warp Factor after listenig to these clips
Great work, dude!
On that song, there is 2 per side. On almost all others, there are almost always 3 per side... he tracked a lot of stuff
Thanks for the compliments! It's cool that you liked the distortion, I haven't talked to anybody that has used this pedal before, it doesn't seem to be very well known. I hope you won't blame me if you don't get a great sound out of it though!
Saved your posts down on a txt-file
I will use 'em to tweak it more tomorrow! Thanks for the awesome feedback
John_C
formerly Skeksis268
Saved your posts down on a txt-file
no problem man, glad to be of some help
I hope the mix is reaching it's "finished" point now, I have a new version. I have done pretty much all that has been pointed out this far, especially the stuff pointed out by skeksis268.
Compressed the bass guitar's 100-200 hz area and made it take off a few dBs and keep it a little more even. Took away pretty much everything I had boosted on the kick's lows but raised the overall volume. Cut the reverb from the guitars alot, there's no reverb on the bass, and increased the highpass on the drumverb. Used a little more compression on the snare just to tame the hard hits, and increased slightly on the high end for a little more crisp. Also backed off on the pseudo-mastering, and used a little compression and clipping to raise the volume to around -11 RMS instead of the -9 or whatever there was on version 2... and it clipped like a truck (whatever that's supposed to mean..).
I think it sounds a bit more balanced, and for some reason also a little dirtier which might be for the better actually. I don't think I will need to push up the volume later on since this music probably isn't in the loudness war as much as radio metal, but some master-EQing might be useful later. Anyway...
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/585020/wtfAWESOMEmix_v3.mp3
I hope it's better than both other earlier versions, or else I've started sucking drastically hard for no reason over the last couple days!
Edit: Granted, my ears are tired and so am I, but I'm doubting myself a little on this last mix... I'm off to the gym, hope someone with fresh ears can take a listen
Compressed the bass guitar's 100-200 hz area and made it take off a few dBs and keep it a little more even. Took away pretty much everything I had boosted on the kick's lows but raised the overall volume. Cut the reverb from the guitars alot, there's no reverb on the bass, and increased the highpass on the drumverb. Used a little more compression on the snare just to tame the hard hits, and increased slightly on the high end for a little more crisp. Also backed off on the pseudo-mastering, and used a little compression and clipping to raise the volume to around -11 RMS instead of the -9 or whatever there was on version 2... and it clipped like a truck (whatever that's supposed to mean..).
I think it sounds a bit more balanced, and for some reason also a little dirtier which might be for the better actually. I don't think I will need to push up the volume later on since this music probably isn't in the loudness war as much as radio metal, but some master-EQing might be useful later. Anyway...
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/585020/wtfAWESOMEmix_v3.mp3
I hope it's better than both other earlier versions, or else I've started sucking drastically hard for no reason over the last couple days!
Edit: Granted, my ears are tired and so am I, but I'm doubting myself a little on this last mix... I'm off to the gym, hope someone with fresh ears can take a listen
I like v2 the most to be honest... It sounds just better for me. I don't know, maybe it's a matter of preference
John_C
formerly Skeksis268
it's good, very good.
Is there any verb on the OHs? they sounded better in v1 than in 2 and 3, more defined
Is there any verb on the OHs? they sounded better in v1 than in 2 and 3, more defined
I like v2 the most to be honest... It sounds just better for me. I don't know, maybe it's a matter of preference
Maybe
But v2 is clipping a lot, but apart from that, I think it's just a matter of personal taste.In v1 there is no verb on anything, in v2 there is a lot of verb on snare and toms, less on OH, and kinda a lot on guitars and a little on bass. In v3, only the snare and toms retain the same amount of verb as previously, but everything else was toned down a lot (and I also high passed it higher than before, so you could say it's even less reverb due to that too).
However... I just remembered one thing dude, and I must say you've got some fine ears! Now that you mention the OH, I realized I forgot to say I eased on the multiband compression (mostly on the mids and highs) on the OHs, which probably makes them get a bit buried under everything else, hence the definition... darn man, you know what you're talking about! I think I'll up the compression on that again to make it on par with previously
There's also a very slight amount of limiting going on on the drum group... it doesn't do much but I somehow feel this sounds too compressed already for my taste. I really hate compression most of the time, even if I'm all for modern music... just gotta dial it in right :O
But I think I know what to change now for next version, and then it'll hopefully be good enough for black metuuuulz!
John_C
formerly Skeksis268
the snare can get a little buried in parts, you've got the "smack" spot on around 200hz and it's a sweet sound, but perhaps a bit more crack would help it cut, maybe around 2 khz, perhaps higher. It's hard to tell in the mix what frequencies are needed once it's all together. A wide boost from 1.5khz to about 5khz would be my first guess.
Some automation is always good when you're dealing with blast beats, the fast snare dominates the mix (not neccesarily bad ofc, this is black metal ofc) wheras the slow snare is sortof gone before you knew it had started. I'd bring up the snare a little when it's slower and lower it a tad during extended blasting.
I really like this mix, it's got a great raw energy and life to it and it fits the music perfectly
EDITED, see above
EDIT again: I think that with some more crack in the snare, the automation would probably only be neccesary to bring down the blasts a bit
Some automation is always good when you're dealing with blast beats, the fast snare dominates the mix (not neccesarily bad ofc, this is black metal ofc) wheras the slow snare is sortof gone before you knew it had started. I'd bring up the snare a little when it's slower and lower it a tad during extended blasting.
I really like this mix, it's got a great raw energy and life to it and it fits the music perfectly
EDITED, see above
EDIT again: I think that with some more crack in the snare, the automation would probably only be neccesary to bring down the blasts a bit
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