Nevermore Vs..........iced Earth

[ledmag]

I was at another forum, and the title of this post was the title of a post at that other forum.

Here is what my reply was..............I think it could make for good discussion, if anyone else is willing to talk about it.

So, who is better(as if i didnt already know)...and why?

Here is my reply:


You just cant compare ICED EARTH TO NEVERMORE.

Iced Earth is like a CHILD in the first grade.

Nevermore is like an adult who has already ACED college with a masters degree.


Ok, yeah, Jon can play....three to four riffs tops..thats it. But, I suppose haveing the ability to play basicaly three to four riffs over a span of six studio cd's, meets the criteria, and justifies one saying ....'the man can play'.

Jon on POSERS.
Have you ever wonderd why Jon constantly spews this word out of his PIE HOLE, like shit spewing from his ass after a night of drinking PABPS BLUE RIBBON BEER?Why is he so worried about ppl thinking him to be a POSER? Well, maybe he is a poser.

Have you ever wonderd why there isnt much lead on ICED? I ll tell ya, cause Jon cant play lead. Jon wants the LIGHT, Jon wants all the CREDIT. If a guy came into the folds of Iced who could actually play, Jon would be out of the LIGHT....ANd you know Jon will not stand for that.

Now we come to Jon and his favorite word...KILLEREST. First off...is that even a word? hahaha I must laugh every time i see Jon saying KILLERST in an interview....he just cant say MOST KILLER, or MORE KILLER....hahahaha he is a PUTZ.

Jon on Iced being the best band.
I really have to laugh....He needs a PECK on the shoulder, and then needs to be informed on how much he really needs to OPEN HIS AND EARS, and to wake up...ETC ETC.

Jon on trends.
He follows these RULES that he has laid out for HIS band(its his band cause he knows whats best, HA, more like its his band cause he is a JELOUSE fuck off)He never leaves the confinments of these so called rules. So, in that way, perhaps Jons "dated" , "non-experemntal" style of playing is just a trend in itself(since the style was very big in the 80's)(Im not saying ICED EARTH is a trend, but it is possible)

One more thing about Jon and his first grade mentality.
Have you guys ever seen Jon state the following:
"fuck trends, and fuck posers
Iced fucking Earth and Blind Guardian 4 ever"

WHat kind of fucking joke is that anyway? ITs like singing that first grade song....."Iced and guardian settin in a tree, K. I. S. S. I. N. G." YOu know.And the way he writes the **4** instead of spelling it. Jon is almost a retard child.
I would be willing to wager, if Jon saw a girl/woman of which, he thought was attractive, and he wanted a DATE or what not with her....I would wager he would write her a little note. The note would read similar to this: "I like you. DO you like me?". Then you would find two small boxes drawn on the little letter..beside one box you would find the word "YES", beside the other box, you would find the word "NO". The boxes would be for a CHECK MARK you know..just like in the first grade.
He comes across like he is trying to impress CHILDREN. Thats fine to impress children, but not to concentrate on them. I think an artist/band should should try to attract all ages..WHich i think is Jons plan....But thats not how Jon comes across. IT seems to me, that Jon can relate best to "mindless follow the trends, but say you arent" type of ppl.....in other words..CHILDREN.


Now we get to NEVERMORE.
Jeff is a very effective, very experimental, and a very good all around guitar player. Jon, and no other guitarist who has been in the folds of iced earth can even stand near Jeff while he has a guitar in his hands..

As for BASS, JIm has that coverd very well....

As for drums....Van smokes the skin off any drummer who has ever been in the folds of Iced(all but rich).

VOX...Warrel is the *one* of the best in metal, or any other genre....past present and future..Warrel Dane can sing better than Jon can play...you know thats not sayin much, cause jon only has three to four riffs that he is able to pull out at any given time. BUt its a fact about Warrel being great.


As for Iced earth....All Jon has in his corner is MATT. Matt is a very good VOXXER, but he cannot touch Warrel.

Just so you guys know..I have all nevermore, and all Iced earth, so i do know both bands very well.

 

[Wallet Boy]

I think Nevermore is infinitely better than Iced Earth, but do you expect intelligent replies on the other forum to what you posted above? What does what Schaffer says in interviews have to do with what band is better?

 

[QuothTheRaven]

ledmag, fuck you

Jon Shaffer is not a jealous fuck off or anything of the sort. I met the guy and he's actually really cool. The post you just made was the most juvenille thing i have ever seen you post. I also have all CDs from both bands and I have to say that if you think jon can't play then you're quite mistaken. It takes a very special kind of guitar player to play lead, and jon is aware of this. I read an interview in which he said "This band was never formed about being a rock star or a guitar hero or anything like that. I'm a songwriter, Iced Earth is merely a forum through which i can channel that ability."
I admire jon for his vision for his band, he knows just what he wants.
As for jon being un-experimental, etc etc, this is also not true. It just so happens that jon has a very distinct style of writing. To say it's dated is just stupid. No band has ever sounded like IE so it's pretty hard to say it was popular in the 80's and a trend.
As for the "Fuck posers Iced Earth/Blind Guardian 4 ever" thing. I hardly think that has anything to do with an IE vs Nevermore comparison. Ok, so jon hates posers? so do i, great, so should you. Who gives a fuck if he has that on his album booklets? I like seeing that, it means jon has the same intensity and passion for the music he's always had.
As for IE/BG 4 ever, i think it's awsome that these 2 bands can have a great friendship and working relationship. Demons and Wizards was fuckin' awsome. Why is that so childish? you know what else is childish? from sanctuary's Into the Mirror black, under the thanks section: "...Testament(You guys are hella ragin' and the coolest dudes we toured with. Long may you devastate!)..."
you want to know another thing that is childish? Attacking a person's interviews and mannerisms to make a musical comparison. You sound like a fucking ignorant politician who can't back his views so he attacks the other's integrity. normally ledmag i wouldn't say this, but your post was inane and proved nothing. Normally i think your posts can sometimes be quite insightful, this time around it was crap.

I think Nevermore is infinitely better than Iced Earth, but do you expect intelligent replies on the other forum to what you posted above? What does what Schaffer says in interviews have to do with what band is better?

exactly, besides, ledmag's quote was hardly intelligent

one more thing- i agree that nevermore is far more talented than Iced Earth, but IE is quite good and i wouldn't compare them to first graders

 

[ledmag]

IT fits the other posts well........

SO, dont worry about the other post...worry with this one. I was just givin ya an overview of the other post.

My above post tells you which band i like better....AND WHY....so dont get smart with me........

Thats the whole point of this post..is who you like best, and why........
I like never more better, cause the music they play, the way they play it, and they are down to earth..iced is not down to earth.............
No offence, but some of you ppl sure need a lot of explaining. It seems you cant understand anything.............


The way Jon BRAGS on himself, makes me like them less than i would if he didnt brag so much.
It reflects on his music. If you told me you had a band and it was the best in the world, better than this band, greater than that band......then you better have the riffs, the lyrics, the drums, the bass, ETC....to match your words.........



So, now i know you like NEVERMORE better, WHY?
You were so worried about trying to demote me as unintellegent,,,you didnt even answer the post in full.

 

[ledmag]

Originally posted by QuothTheRaven
ledmag, fuck you

Jon Shaffer is not a jealous fuck off or anything of the sort. I met the guy and he's actually really cool. The post you just made was the most juvenille thing i have ever seen you post. I also have all CDs from both bands and I have to say that if you think jon can't play then you're quite mistaken. It takes a very special kind of guitar player to play lead, and jon is aware of this. I read an interview in which he said "This band was never formed about being a rock star or a guitar hero or anything like that. I'm a songwriter, Iced Earth is merely a forum through which i can channel that ability."
I admire jon for his vision for his band, he knows just what he wants.
As for jon being un-experimental, etc etc, this is also not true. It just so happens that jon has a very distinct style of writing. To say it's dated is just stupid. No band has ever sounded like IE so it's pretty hard to say it was popular in the 80's and a trend.
As for the "Fuck posers Iced Earth/Blind Guardian 4 ever" thing. I hardly think that has anything to do with an IE vs Nevermore comparison. Ok, so jon hates posers? so do i, great, so should you. Who gives a fuck if he has that on his album booklets? I like seeing that, it means jon has the same intensity and passion for the music he's always had.
As for IE/BG 4 ever, i think it's awsome that these 2 bands can have a great friendship and working relationship. Demons and Wizards was fuckin' awsome. Why is that so childish? you know what else is childish? from sanctuary's Into the Mirror black, under the thanks section: "...Testament(You guys are hella ragin' and the coolest dudes we toured with. Long may you devastate!)..."
you want to know another thing that is childish? Attacking a person's interviews and mannerisms to make a musical comparison. You sound like a fucking ignorant politician who can't back his views so he attacks the other's integrity. normally ledmag i wouldn't say this, but your post was inane and proved nothing. Normally i think your posts can sometimes be quite insightful, this time around it was crap.



exactly, besides, ledmag's quote was hardly intelligent

one more thing- i agree that nevermore is far more talented than Iced Earth, but IE is quite good and i wouldn't compare them to first graders

So, our Opinions are different. Read the above post, the one right after the one you quated me on......

I dont care if you like my posts or not...........

Im in a hurry, so, I may flame u more later.....as of right now.you are not important.

 

[QuothTheRaven]

I understand the concept of which band you like better and why, but attacking Jon personally has nothing to do with that. Were u to have said "jeff is better than jon for this reason/warrel is better than barlow for this reason" etc... that would be a comparison post. This was a "jon's a fuck and Iced Earth sucks post.
First of all Jon doesn't BRAG on himself. I've never read an interview where he said "Oh our band is the best band ever and we're more talented than everyone else" Like i said i met the guy, he was quite down to earth and quite cool. If anyone had an ego it was Matt, but i think he was just sick, but i digress. I can't seem to recall ever hearing Jon say "We are the most talented band ever" or anything of the sort.

As for why i like nevermore better:
Jeff Loomis is a guitar god and far superior to both jon and larry combined. His speed, technicality, and musicianship is far superior
Van Williams and Richard Christy are both quite good, but i'd have to give that one to Van for his style of drumming is much more uniqe than richard's
Vocals are usually more based on opinon than overall talent, but in both i'd have to go with Warrel for his voice has the power to display more emotion.
And as for Jim Sheppard vs. Jimmy they also are both very talented but the edge would probably have to go to Sheppard because you can really hear is talent on some of the ballads

my previous post, ledmag, was never to demote you as unintellegent, nor was it to explain why i think nevermore is better than IE (obviously). the point was to show that your post had no merit as a comparison because 90% of it was attacking Jon Schaffer's personality, of which you'd know nothing about unless you happen to be his best friend or something.
It was also to defend one my favorite bands from your very unwarranted flaming

 

[FrostGiant]

If you're on the level of Iced Earth, Nevermore, etc. you damn well better think that your band is the best there is otherwise what the hell are you doing in that band. I don't know where that whole down to earth shit is coming from either. I've met both bands and they were both cool as shit. I prefer Nevermore's music over IE, but that doesn't mean that one band has 'better' musicians than the other. Hell, IMO Richard Christy is better than Van Williams. But only with IE. Van Williams is better than Christy with Nevermore. Have them switch bands and it would definitely screw things up. You obviously just have something against Schaeffer, which I don't really understand.

 

[ledmag]

RAVENS ASSHOLE>>>You see my friend......you got made at me for my oppinion, then flamed me.

You are not much. From now on, i dont want you to lik emy posts.....from now on, you are a PRICK.
If you cant handle my oppinion, then you are not intellegent. Your must be on eof those CHILDREN i was talkin about earlier

I rant and rave, and flame like hell on a regular basis, butyour opinion is yours, and i respect it.
I didnt ask to be flamed, and i flamed not one of you ppl. not one........i asked for your opinion and graciaously gave my opinion. YOu sir, obviously cant deal with my opinion.

As i have said, if you call youself the best..as does Jon, you need to have th estuff to prove it. You must admit, he brags waaay to much. He puts bands down left and right. He said this month in BWBK that ICED EARTH was the best band on EARTH..........thats bull shit man......totle and utter........
He is a bragger........he needs to cool the braggin down.
And you need to ease up on ppls opiniomn.
Jokers post waay more stupid shit around here than I do.





SO NOW, PLEASE EVERYONE ELSE, LETS JUST TELL EVERYONE WHICH OF THESE BANDS YOU LIKE BEST.....AND WHY..
THE FLAMES ARE NOT NEEDED.

LETS US ALL WHO WANTS TO< JUST DISCUSS THESE TWO BANDS....in a non flaming fashion.



btw.....RAVEN...IM NOT TRYIN TO BE INTELLEGENT HERE...IM ASKING A QUESTION.........AND I GAVE MY ANSWER TO MY OWN QUESTION

 

[ledmag]

RAVEN>>>>Ok then..sorry i attacke you.

But i still say that what he says reflects on his music.

And yes man.......mail me your adress, and ill tear out articles and send them to you.


The stuff Jon says, then i listen to th emusic...makes a difference to me..it lets me inside his head so to speak........

once again....im not tryin to piss you guys off.

 

[QuothTheRaven]

i don't know you and have no desire to get into a flame/i'm smarter and my opinons are better than yours war. Our opinons don't even really differ all that much, i like nevermore better than IE, so do you. whatever, i was just defending one my fav. bands and a metal icon from undue/unbased personal attacks. But whatever. Question though, if u think jon's an asshole and that reflects in his music, why do you own all their albums? just curious

Also, i can handle your opinons, and anyone else's "to each their own" i always say. But i don't think calling someone an asshole or chilidish is an opionon. that's more a statement to insult someone.

my e-mail address is bwenner@purdue.edu and i would like to see some articles if you don't mind. I'm doing this as a challenge, to you but i am interested in seeing them

 

[ledmag]

RAVEN....That you are smarter shit makes you less smart. You may be asking for me to flame here...and i will mother fucker.....

I like ICED EARTH.....I just get ar=grivated with Jon bragging............he puts bands down.

Im an honest kind of guy...i state my Opinions as they are.......I tell th etruth.

 

[QuothTheRaven]

I never claimed to be smarter than you nor do i want a flame war as a matter of fact i said i didnt. Maybe i just fail to see what got you so riled up again. Also, why do u feel the need to insult me? "ravens asshole/ motherfucker" etc... I'm not calling you ledFAG or anything. Jesus dude, unwind or something, i never said anything to attack you

 

[FrostGiant]

I know Jon brags alot about being the best band, but when did he ever put another band down? Serious question here. Did he ever call out a band and specifically rip them? I've never heard or read it anywhere.

 

[Unregistered]

Candles glowing, altars burn,
Virgin’s death is needed so be it
Sacrifice to Lucifer my master
Bring the chalice, raise the knife
Welcome to my sacrifice..."

 

[Crown]

Nevermore all the way here. They are a solid unit which members are equally important as each other, both showing great musical capability in creativity and performance that any other band cant do. Keep it up.

As for iced earth. Great band. Its always good to stick some of them on but as with slayer their stuff does sound similar. Alive in athens shows this imo where the guitar tone is the same throughout making all the songs from the past sound the same as the new. Great cd though. Very tight band

 

[ledmag]

Originally posted by Crown
Nevermore all the way here. They are a solid unit which members are equally important as each other, both showing great musical capability in creativity and performance that any other band cant do. Keep it up.

As for iced earth. Great band. Its always good to stick some of them on but as with slayer their stuff does sound similar. Alive in athens shows this imo where the guitar tone is the same throughout making all the songs from the past sound the same as the new. Great cd though. Very tight band

ALive in Athens, and Days of Purg.........are my favs by Iced.
I love both of those cd's.

 

[ledmag]

Originally posted by QuothTheRaven
I never claimed to be smarter than you nor do i want a flame war as a matter of fact i said i didnt. Maybe i just fail to see what got you so riled up again. Also, why do u feel the need to insult me? "ravens asshole/ motherfucker" etc... I'm not calling you ledFAG or anything. Jesus dude, unwind or something, i never said anything to attack you

You say you didnt call me names? OK, You dont see why i was so riled up?(when in fact, I very seldom EVER really get riled up on line, and im not riled up now, and i wasnt when you were posting, forums are like a GAME to me, I meet guys/girls i like, and i cherish them, but the rest, its all for fun, even flame wars)

Ok, this may tell you why i took YOU as being riled up, and therefore preceeded to rile you up even more. DOnt be offended, becouse at first, i really didnt rile you up on perpose. ANd rest assured, you didnt rile me up at all hahaha.

QUOTE RAVEN**You sound like a fucking ignorant politician who can't back his views so he attacks the other's integrity**END QUOTE RAVEN

WHats this?

QUOTE RAVEN**ledmag's quote was hardly intelligent**ENDQUOTE RAVEN
Even though i wasnt trying to be intellegent..????Just merely posting a thread for meaningless(meaningless to all but the one with the opinion) conversation on which you like best, and WHY. WHy meaning for what ever reason you choose to like or dislike.


ANd this was not you saying fuck you to me?

QUOTE RAVEN**ledmag, fuck you**END QUOTE RAVEN



AND

QUOTE RAVEN**my e-mail address is bwenner@purdue.edu and i would like to see some articles if you don't mind. I'm doing this as a challenge, to you but i am interested in seeing them**END QUOTE RAVEN

Ok, ill tear a few out, scan them, and mail them to you later. ANd its not a fucking challenge.......

I supose this may fit into this thread, and perhaps it should have been in my originateing post.....IMO Jon holds th eband back, by not having a lead, IMO he holds them back by not expanding on what they have done....I can say more, but i dont feel like it.....I will later........



QUOTE RAVEN**I never claimed to be smarter than you nor do i want a flame war as a matter of fact i said i didnt**END QUOTE RAVEN

SO i made a mistake...i will not deny it.........sorry on that note.

 

[ledmag]

Originally posted by Rusted_in_peace50
Iced Earth fucking own your ass.

See Damien live and hear Matt Barlow hit every note perfect, after that you cant say SHIT about them.

Uhem......go back and re read my originating post......


QUOTE LEDMAG**As for Iced earth....All Jon has in his corner is MATT. Matt is a very good VOXXER, but he cannot touch Warrel.**END QUOTE LEDMAG

Yep, thats what i said.

 

[ledmag]

Well sure it does man....It will stand as long as you want it too.....I respect that

so, tell us which you prefer and why...neverm......or Iced Ear....

 

[ledmag]

I agree rust man on the 99% power metal. ANd i agree that Jon has some kikin riffs.

Im tryin to get a fuss here, but WHY is never..your fav over Iced earth?