New Borknagar and Mr. V

[Allfader]

I just accept their liking it. Why cannot they just accept my disliking it.

They Should. I read the same as you and I think their attitude it's not so picky. It seems like the new album really divided the fanbase, even more than Empiricism.

I'm with you saying that his vocals sound different from the past. On Origin he sounds more relaxed, so on Epic. This time he tried too hard but sometimes it works, sometimes don't.

 

[lefay82]

Finally, quoting Mr V loong time ago:

" I think that's the continuance in Borknagar: we're going to do very diverse albums. I think we're going to continue with this kind of diversity".

yes but no one ever spoke about the voice's style.
they told the album would sound like the older ones, even if it doesn't sound like them to my ears, and anyhow, how could the voice sounds like in an album where andreas didn't sing? i wonder



@elvina: don't you get angry about the discussion. we are just speaking in friendly way, no one is offending no one (at least not from my point of view, maybe you sensibility is diverse from mine and you feel offended by this)
you know perfectly what i think about the whole thing.
i liked vintersorg's old voice, sooo much, i miss those times, i miss the older vintersorg stuff. if i think of him ( the idea i have of the group) then the first albums that comes to my mind are till fjalls, odermarken and hednisk....not the focusing, not solens.....there must be reason, no?
i don't think it means to be stuck in the past...this is the era i like mostly and always will...nothing will ever change my mind....
but i'm trying to understand the changing....what else can i do?
stop listening to him? no way....
it hurts, you know that....to me it hurts.
but i'm getting used and slowly am starting to appreciate the other style.
for example i listened to waterclime. never ever have i tought i would listen to stuff like that, it's totally alien and weird to me, not my cup of tea, but i tried, because my love for the artist was so strong that made me make this effort, and surprisely i like it!
well i've losed the point of what i wanted to say....
no one is accusing you, or at least i'm not doing it, you know i'm just saying that it sounds unexpected to me that a lot of people doesn't like the voice because is really similar to the voice he has in other cds.
but this is my opinion, and your's differente...that's okey, where's the problem?
we are just talking, and everyone is showing his/her point of view, i like diversity....it's nice to exchange opinions also if they are much different from each other. you non-likers can, with no kind of problem, think that we-likers are deaf or mad or whatever....they are just opinions. at the end of the day we all have (i wish) our lives, our dears, our friends....i don't want to take this forum/discussion so seriously, and feel bad for this, even if i feel really at home here....

 

[NovembersDirge]

Can we all agree that we really like "Till Fjälls" in any case?

But yeah, I'm with Allfader: at some point you just have to say "I don't agree with you, let's agree to disagree." 'Cause it does no one any good to just run over the same shit repeatedly.

 

[lefay82]

yeah but the point is....wait...very difficult to explain it english, i fear it will sound like a tongue twister...
i accept you think diffently from me....but you have also to accept i think differently to you.
in this case, i have to accept there's someone who dislikes the voice, but also elvina should accept there are some people here who doesn't undestand why other people (i'm not necessarily speaking of her, but of everyone who felt unhappy with this recod) doesn't like the voice.
am i able to do not understand? (again not her case, she has explained perfectly why she doesn't like the voice) because if i'm not able....then the freedom stands only from one side....
i hope to have explained it correctly

 

[NovembersDirge]

yeah but the point is....wait...very difficult to explain it english, i fear it will sound like a tongue twister...
i accept you think diffently from me....but you have also to accept i think differently to you.
in this case, i have to accept there's someone who dislikes the voice, but also elvina should accept there are some people here who doesn't undestand why other people (i'm not necessarily speaking of her, but of everyone who felt unhappy with this recod) doesn't like the voice.
am i able to do not understand? (again not her case, she has explained perfectly why she doesn't like the voice) because if i'm not able....then the freedom stands only from one side....
i hope to have explained it correctly

Yes. Of course, and if someone isn't willing to accept your opinion and is constantly questioning it and being a jackass about it, then you just have to stop responding to them. But one would hope that on the Vintersorg forum, where we all are because we love the music of Vintersorg, whether or not we agree about it all the time, we'd be able to agree to disagree. Because at its very bottom, we all love Mr. V's music and are big fans of his work. It doesn't mean we all have to love the same things.

 

[Elvina]

if someone isn't willing to accept your opinion and is constantly questioning it and being a jackass about it, then you just have to stop responding to them.

that's the point i am trying to make in my last 4 or so posts!! if you can point me out where i personally have attacked anybody for liking this album or questioned their reasons even, please do and i am sure i can explain it, if i ever even wrote something like that! My point here is:

every time when a part of the fanbase dislikes a new release of the band, they are being picked at and everybody else is assuming there must be something seriously wrong about them. Then they start calling names/looking for reasons that are not there/assuming lies about people. And somehow it is never the other way around. I have always accepted the others opinions for what they are, without questioning them. Because i know i will never know their own personal reasons. Hell, even now that i'm on the other side of the camp with Alcest's new release, i still don't feel like calling those who don't like this obvious masterpiece morons or deaf just because they don't like it!! Everybody can have their own reasons, or even none at all! And you just cannot assume you can know them. So i let these people and their opinions be, and i just talk about how i feel about the music, not the people and their reasons.

Anyway, i am not angry, i don't hold any grudge against anybody personally. I responded to nobody particularly, it was just summing up of all the things i read last week both here and on Borknagar forum. Including that message Undefined wrote 2 days ago in responce to Darcy that got deleted almost immediately either by himself or by Tyr. (got it in my mail because of the subscription to thread). I would have ignored them all, just it sometimes really gets to me. Maybe because i haven't slept in 2 days and i'm extra volunerable to this shit i dunno... i'm just tired of this discussion coming back again and again about the same things and people assuming stupid things that are not true about other people because of this or that...

 

[Naglfar]

I think the new Borky is fantastic. That's just my two cents. Fleshflower and My Domain are my two faves on that album, so, equal love to Vortex and Mr.V.

I can see why people don't like Mr.V's style. He does have a particular voice and a unique style. But that's why I like him.

 

[lefay82]

Because at its very bottom, we all love Mr. V's music and are big fans of his work. It doesn't mean we all have to love the same things.

yes, that's the importan thing.
that and till fjalls

 

[Satan Claws]

I like his singing now, but maybe it's not as good as in other albums and here's why. I don't find here as many epic moments in Mr. V's vocals as in the other ones, but there are some. Nevertheless, this is one of my fav borky albums for the overall result and that is maybe because of the same thing, every instrument shines here. It's like the vocals gave them space so to speak. I know, borknagar ALWAYS had great parts in every instrument, but the vocals were like always on top of it. That didn't happen this time (with the exepction of loci).

That's not the case when you listen to My domain, where the vocals are just so fucking epic that everything around is like following them. This is for me the best Vortex performance ever (w/ the chaos path), and it's not fair for me to make a comparison between that singing and the rest of the album. It's really a different song from all the others in every way.

Pd: My opinion may change in the future since I'm enjoying the album more and more everyday and I already ordered the vinyls, when they arrive some things that are not so loud in the mp3's should shine a bit more.

 

[Helge-Uwe]

Speaking about me personally, I never picked on anyone.
I repeat it over and over again (esp for Elvina): My question just was why quite many people complain about his style of singing, while I have nothing read about that before, although he sings with this kind of voice since a few years... although I'm not too active on this forum and may have overread or even have not read it.

Sorry, I felt constrained to leave my cents on this topic one more time. No offense..

 

[NovembersDirge]

yes, that's the importan thing.
that and till fjalls

Exactly! TILL FJÄLLS! TIIIIILL FJÄÄÄÄÄLLS!!

 

[Satan Claws]

Exactly! TILL FJÄLLS! TIIIIILL FJÄÄÄÄÄLLS!!

 

[mjollnir1965]

I'm going to post here since Erik ended the discussion on the Bork forum.

I was not insulting anyone. I was making an observation based upon people's posts. That's it...nothing more, nothing less. I was also making a suggestion as to how to maybe see the album in a different light. I personally love the album!! I never meant to insult anyone but if my post did seem to insult people, please accept my apology.

 

[Naglfar]

Fuck that. I insult who I want! NO APOLOGIES FROM ME, EVEN THOUGH I OFFENDED NO ONE! FUCK YOU ALL!

/frothing

I've listened the album quite a bit now, and I don't understand how someone could be a fan of Mr.V's solo stuff and last few Borky albums and not like, say, Fleshflower. His vocals on that song are fucking awesome! As Mr. Uwe said in a post above, he's been singing this way for quite a few years now.

It doesn't rile me up, though. I like stuff that other people scoff at. I've currently been listening to the Protomen Vanity Set (re: industrial album turned into an 8-bit NES midi), so what the fuck do I know.

 

[Qu Appelle]

This flag is the best flag.

I want one.

 

[Defiance]

This flag is the best flag.

I want one.

Yeah!

Can you imagine yourself waving that flag with the Official Vintersorg Forum shirt? I can .

 

[darcy]

that's the point i am trying to make in my last 4 or so posts!! if you can point me out where i personally have attacked anybody for liking this album or questioned their reasons even, please do and i am sure i can explain it, if i ever even wrote something like that! My point here is:

every time when a part of the fanbase dislikes a new release of the band, they are being picked at and everybody else is assuming there must be something seriously wrong about them. Then they start calling names/looking for reasons that are not there/assuming lies about people. And somehow it is never the other way around. I have always accepted the others opinions for what they are, without questioning them. Because i know i will never know their own personal reasons. Hell, even now that i'm on the other side of the camp with Alcest's new release, i still don't feel like calling those who don't like this obvious masterpiece morons or deaf just because they don't like it!! Everybody can have their own reasons, or even none at all! And you just cannot assume you can know them. So i let these people and their opinions be, and i just talk about how i feel about the music, not the people and their reasons.

Anyway, i am not angry, i don't hold any grudge against anybody personally. I responded to nobody particularly, it was just summing up of all the things i read last week both here and on Borknagar forum. Including that message Undefined wrote 2 days ago in responce to Darcy that got deleted almost immediately either by himself or by Tyr. (got it in my mail because of the subscription to thread). I would have ignored them all, just it sometimes really gets to me. Maybe because i haven't slept in 2 days and i'm extra volunerable to this shit i dunno... i'm just tired of this discussion coming back again and again about the same things and people assuming stupid things that are not true about other people because of this or that...

wait, what response? maybe i missed it.

 

[lefay82]

wait, what response? maybe i missed it.

i don't know what has happened really here.
nobody inteded to offend anyone, but obviously it didn't worked well.

i've read the old topic in borknagar's forum, but i'm not sure to have read it entirely 'cause it was deleted when i was reading....i think i have read all the first page...the conversation tone was a little bit rawer there than here, so tyr decided to stop it and open a new thread.
i'm sorry if i have offended anyone, i didn't want to. and i hope this should be sufficient. i don't want to apologies for something i don't know what exactly is (i mean which words were offensive for other people, please explain it me if you want) , and something i've done with no bad intents...
elvina spoke in general, i don't know if i have personally offended her, but she quoted me, so i suppose yes. and i'm sorry about that, i didn't want to, really!
but as defiance said in the moderated topic, this is a forum, and i think everyone should be free to say what he/she wants, and speak about arguments he/she wants, being polite and civil of course, but i don't think it's right that someone says "i don't want you to speak of this" or "please stop speaking of this"....who doesn't like the topic or what is written inside of it is free to not read it and avoid it. being a user in a forum it doesn't mean to me to follow all the threads. i'm on a lot of very big forums, and there are a lot of topics i don't care or in which i'm not interested in and never read (and either care if i'm mentioned in them), i don't see any problem in this.
i think we were speaking politely even if ardently, but after this incomprehention a veil of ice have landed on this topic, like has happened on the moderated topic on borknagar's forum.

 

[darcy]

I don't have a problem with Defiance or anyone speaking their minds, but if I think his response was poor I'm going to challenge him on it. So many of the responses to her and my opinions- which weren't entirely negative, even- were basically dismissing everything we had to say, just suggesting we hadn't listened enough or we expected too much of something or whatever. Basically, that there was something wrong with us or what we were doing, preventing us from fully grasping the album's otherwise undeniable awesomeness.

To me, this is a useless and unhelpful kind of comment, and that's what I'm responding to. People telling me that if I hadn't heard Borknagar ever before, that I would love it, and it's only my expectations making it seem flawed. Or that (best of all!) I am jealous of Vintersorg's vocal skills and that is the source of my less-than-enthusiastic comments. Of course! A singer I have adored for years, who has inspired me more than any other individual, I am shit-talking because I am jealous of him! I don't object to people disagreeing with me. I object to inane nonsense, regardless of the context.

 

[lefay82]

I don't have a problem with Defiance or anyone speaking their minds, but if I think his response was poor I'm going to challenge him on it. So many of the responses to her and my opinions- which weren't entirely negative, even- were basically dismissing everything we had to say, just suggesting we hadn't listened enough or we expected too much of something or whatever. Basically, that there was something wrong with us or what we were doing, preventing us from fully grasping the album's otherwise undeniable awesomeness.

To me, this is a useless and unhelpful kind of comment, and that's what I'm responding to. People telling me that if I hadn't heard Borknagar ever before, that I would love it, and it's only my expectations making it seem flawed. Or that (best of all!) I am jealous of Vintersorg's vocal skills and that is the source of my less-than-enthusiastic comments. Of course! A singer I have adored for years, who has inspired me more than any other individual, I am shit-talking because I am jealous of him! I don't object to people disagreeing with me. I object to inane nonsense, regardless of the context.

i think you've missed the point of what (i and helge) was trying to say about the vocals.
forgive me but i'm not english, so i probably express myself in a bad manner, and what i say comes straight to you in a different way of the one would come if i was able to speak in my mothertongue (the fact that we are writing and not seeing each other's face or listening to each other's tone can also help in misunderstanding, AND i'm sure, knowing him quite well, that defiance was joking when he said that thing about jelousy)
anyway, what we was trying to say wasn't that your expectations were too high, but instead a bit unrealistic. i said that thing about epic and empiricism just to underline the fact he doesn't sings that way from a lot of albums and time, so it would be quite unexpected if he would start to sing that way again and suddently. this the path he has choosen from quite a long time, that's why i made that example, naming the last two album when he sang with that kind of voice. i don't thik this assertion is disrespectful!
but in the end, i'm with you regarding the fact that his voice was more beautiful in the past!