Mr.Sister
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New Megadeth
- Thread starter Talking Backwards
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- Oct 5, 2009
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Eh, dunno what format you have your albums on (maybe vinyl sounds better or something), but Metallica did not have really good production until MoP, and Peace Sells had outstanding production compared to their first album as well as much better than the next. Countdown had overproduced production. Metallica didn't have production like that until the Black album either, and you cannot say with a straight face that they did a good job on And Justice For All... You could say that for an 80's recording it was well above average, but it was still a terrible mix. The best thing about Megadeth's production was the bass. It wasn't just that the bass lines were on average way better than what was heard in Metallica (not saying Cliff wasn't good or anything, only that he essentially played the same thing James did for their "wall of sound" that they brag about), it's that it was clearly distinct from the guitars even when it was playing the same riffs.
Like I said, I've been listening to all of their albums lately, and the thing I've noticed is that Peace Sells actually has an amazing production for an album from 86. The only issue is that you have to turn the volume up at least 50% more to get the same fidelity. The remastered Peace Sells has a better "modern" production, but the album overall was a waste of resources. They should not have gone back to change parts (especially the vocals), because they definitely do not sound better than the original versions.
I guess that's one way of looking at it, but I started listening to both of them at the same time, so that doesn't really apply to me.
Dead Winter
STAHP
Eh, I'd say that PS definitely has a WARMER production, but Ride the Lightning had a cooler sound to it.
- Oct 5, 2009
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Warmer usually translates into: musical, and cooler into: clinical.
Heh, this is just anecdotal evidence and not "proof" of anything, but I have a good friend who led a somewhat sheltered life, and didn't really start listening to "metal" until the late 90's or so, and he started with Soundgarden. He later started listening to Metallica (who became one of his favorite bands), and occasionally Megadeth. The only way he gets any exposure to real metal on his own if it's not through me is through his Syrius subscription; whatever they decide to play at the time. Most of which he doesn't like due to it being death metal. Just yesterday I was playing Tornado of Souls, and he goes "this is the best part" right about when the solo was about to start and it blew my mind. Then I put in Peace Sells and meant to start with Wake Up Dead, but hit The Conjuring by mistake, and then skipped back to the first song. He said "Man, I'd really like to hear that song, it's one of the best and always reminds me of...".
Anyway, my point is, he's extremely casual when it comes to metal. Not even an "average fan" if you will, and he prefers Megadeth over Metallica as well, even though he greatly enjoys MoP too. So I dunno if it really is a matter of "easier listening" compared to "had more exposure". Maybe it is.
Peace Sells is excellent!
Catch as shit, super memorable riffs, and im a fan of Daves voice back then
but it's only a rock album
It is. Just like all their albums. Rock.
MegadeV
Member
I know I'm a nobody around here, but this marks the last time I ever take anything you say seriously.
neal
wizard in black
thats a fuckin MAN beard, what are you some baby faced punk?
Ride the Lightening sounds fuckin AWESOME, better than a lot of albums that came out in the 90s (and im not talking about purposely raw albums)
and your pal who doesnt like the all the 'death metal' (LOL) they play on satellite radio? come on, he must think everything that doesnt have 'clean' singing is death metal.
- Oct 5, 2009
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I tried getting him to listen to Opeth multiple times and the results are always the same. He loves the music, likes the clean vocals, but absolutely cannot stand the death vocals. As for what is on Syrius, much of it is a mix between Death, Black and Scremo, none of which he likes. I don't blame him either, but I can tolerate some of the vocals if they are not too obnoxious if the music is good enough. That's also not to say I don't enjoy some Death or Black vocals from very specific bands, because I do. But they usually aren't just nothing but death vocals either. I never have, and probably never will enjoy Scremo though.
Sometimes though it's too much, especially when all you hear is a guy puking in a toilet the entire song. And no, I'm not suggesting all vocals sound like that, but you have to admit that sometimes there's no attempts at enunciation and it's just growls the whole time.
neal
wizard in black
i agree that only low-grunts gets monotonous, most of my favorite brutal bands throw in some screams and mid-pitch growling for variety
Shpongled
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- Aug 30, 2001
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neal
wizard in black
Dead Winter
STAHP
Dave never had that thick sound until Symphony of Destruction came out, while Metallica had always had it. The two heaviest-sounding Deth albums were CtE and Youthanasia. The guitars were massive in those, but for some reason only those.
Metallica has a full-fledged, bona fide rhythm player and Dave is actually Metallica's old lead guitarist who formed a band and realized that since he was gonna be the frontman that he couldn't shred and sing at the same time. His stuff is way more intricate because he has the mind of a lead player and not a rhythm player. Granted RIP is quite possibly the greatest thrash metal album ever recorded, but even to this day the guitar sound doesn't come across like a punch in the face as Metallica's sound always did. Hetfield isn't anything special on guitar, he's just got the most amazing right hand in heavy metal history and he used to know how to write awesome riffs. Dave kinda mixed the two together and what you have at the end is a really intricate, unorthodox rhythm style interlaced with lead guitar.
Metallica has a full-fledged, bona fide rhythm player and Dave is actually Metallica's old lead guitarist who formed a band and realized that since he was gonna be the frontman that he couldn't shred and sing at the same time. His stuff is way more intricate because he has the mind of a lead player and not a rhythm player. Granted RIP is quite possibly the greatest thrash metal album ever recorded, but even to this day the guitar sound doesn't come across like a punch in the face as Metallica's sound always did. Hetfield isn't anything special on guitar, he's just got the most amazing right hand in heavy metal history and he used to know how to write awesome riffs. Dave kinda mixed the two together and what you have at the end is a really intricate, unorthodox rhythm style interlaced with lead guitar.
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- Oct 5, 2009
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Different producer, and the bass followed the guitar a lot more than it did on many of their previous albums. Those were two of the most mainstream albums Megadeth ever did, unless you count Risk as a Megadeth album, and the songs were much simpler (for Megadeth at least). You know, the guitars used/pickups and prefered distortion make a difference as well. Yes, I do agree that Metallica always had more of a crunch, but that doesn't mean they were always better produced. They also had the bass literally riding the guitar 90% of the time, so of course the guitars are going to sound fuller than what they really were.
If I'm coming off like Megadeth never had shitty production on an album, or Metallica did not average a better mix, that's really not what I mean at all. I just do not believe Metallica had some superior tech that Dave and co just could not understand or that they never came close to or exceeded. MoP was the best produced album prior to the Black album, but those that came before and after were only above average as far as what you would hear in the 80's. And Justice was fucking weak mix wise in comparison. Killer album, crappy production. The weakest Megadeth albums were Killing and So Far So Good. If you have ever read their history though, drugs and firing producers halfway through production probably played a significant part in that. Budget is also a factor and when you're spending half of it on drugs, your final product isn't going to be what it could have been.
El Stormo
Member
Dead Winter
STAHP
I never said Metallica had better tech, all I'm saying is that their production on their albums was always better than Megadeth's, at least guitar-wise. They had Flemming Rasmussen as well.
I've read the book as well so I'm familiar with the history, but I firmly believe that it all comes down to Dave having a warmer, less gain-y tone in his head than James. Rust in Peace had a terrible mix; it was better than what had come before it, but the guitars were weak, tinny, and stale-sounding. Then Dave re-mixed and remastered all his discography and it all just came out sounding like a really clear weak, tinny-sounding guitar sound. I'd say Endgame is the last album to do anything close to the CtE/Youthanasia sound.
blind_cynic
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- Aug 16, 2005
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only answer I've could come up with:
and pretty much the only Slayer song with a solo that makes sense(Hanneman's part):
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Mr.Sister
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Ok, one or two weeks later: 13 is not thaaaaaat great, as I first thought. It got some great songs and some mediocre ones, all in all a good, but not a great record. I still would compare it to Youthanasia though.
And when Justice came out, Megadeth released Rust in Peace...!!! A record better than Justice, better than anything Metallica ever did, and ever will do. And btw: I really like Metallica, but Rust in Peace... is Rust in Peace... !
And when Justice came out, Megadeth released Rust in Peace...!!! A record better than Justice, better than anything Metallica ever did, and ever will do. And btw: I really like Metallica, but Rust in Peace... is Rust in Peace... !
