New Meshuggah album guitars using VST's??
- Thread starter muckypup1
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metalkingdom
the kinder, gentler me
- Jan 1, 2005
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You're missing the point.
"Fit the style of production with the style of the band" ??? no
This is really not something that should be debated, but to put it to rest I offer this -
Metallica pre-Bob Rock
Metallica post-Bob Rock
metalkingdom
the kinder, gentler me
- Jan 1, 2005
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def agree.
put this chick with the lady gaga producer, better production, she would be famous, sadly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3TbHdtti5U
Some clown is getting laid for free at the expense of a hot, naive chick's pipe dream.
That's one of the unspoken perks of saying you're a producer and having PTLE. :Smokedev:
Mattayus
Sir Groove-A-Lot
That's an unfair example, since they were clearly changing at that point in time whether Rock was involved or not. He just exaggerated the changes. You can't Un-Meshuggah Meshuggah
metalkingdom
the kinder, gentler me
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Mattayus
Sir Groove-A-Lot
Oh shit, did my response ruin my chances of being legit? NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, explain what you mean.
Seriously, explain what you mean.
StefTD
Member
I understand your point metalkingdom, but for a band like Meshuggah it doesn't matter that much imho.
And I think Mattayus means production audiowise, not songwriting, imho they're not going to sell millions
of albums, just because Sneap or anybody else is going to produce them because music wise, it's still
Meshuggah, I love them, but there are millions of people who won't listen to Meshuggah, even if they
run a Nickleback style sound as long as the music itself stays the same.
And I think Mattayus means production audiowise, not songwriting, imho they're not going to sell millions
of albums, just because Sneap or anybody else is going to produce them because music wise, it's still
Meshuggah, I love them, but there are millions of people who won't listen to Meshuggah, even if they
run a Nickleback style sound as long as the music itself stays the same.
Josh Burgess
Member
metalkingdom
the kinder, gentler me
- Jan 1, 2005
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Nope. You're both missing my point. I'm talking about "audiowise" strictly, actually. What I'm saying is that you can actually control people's emotions and how they subconsciously connect with the artist with the right choices during production, especially in mixing. Only a very serious professional who lives between the monitors can do this knowingly.
Beyond that, outside production is usually invaluable anyway. Just because music is higly stylized doesn't mean that the production doesn't matter... You still have to set the tone for accessibility. Meshuggah records sound like total dogshit (except DEI) and they're unpleasant to the ear. They're not doing it on purpose - they're doing it because they suck at producing and engineering but refuse to ever believe that just like everyone else with a computer and some books. So, when records sound like shit, only diehards are willing to try to ignore the ear fatigue beyond the first listen because the music is so damn awesome, thus limiting audience and consumer potential from the not-so-diehards and new fans who maybe aren't musicians. Keep doing this over and over for years and your audience won't grow. It's that simple. I don't know about you guys, but I can barely take more than two songs in a row from the self-produced stuff without having to turn that shit off from my ears bleeding. These guys made it even harder for themselves by drifting away from more accessible songs to the abstract stuff while simultaneously introducing those horrible mixes which further inhibits accessibility. If it weren't for DEI, these guys wouldn't even be able to tour. Maybe they're happy with huge influence and limited success, but somehow I think that they would feel much more secure if they were at least a little more successful economically. I love 'em to death, but like many others, I've really just been waiting for DEI again all these years...
outbreak525
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Melb_shredder
Orpheus: Melodic Death
RemoWilliams
¯\(°_o)/¯ How meet Devil?
- Nov 13, 2005
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I agree. Unless, bands start doing polls and taking forum advice and directing their career based on what is bitched and moaned about on internet forums. I mean, fuck what the band thinks, do what the Goddman forums say!!!!
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
I find it quite odd that 'the mix' and 'the music' are so often separated in these discussions. To me, the mix (and the production overall) is a part of the music just like the song is. That's what I love so much about the whole gig - contributing to the music in a way that feels natural to me, and the ability to do so feels like something worth chasing. There are thousands of dudes who can easily put together a nice mix, but those who always seem to stand out are the ones who "get in" to the songs and let themselves loose instead of just shaping a great mix that fits the songs. Listen to Beck's Paper Tiger from the album Sea Change and then imagine the emotional impact it would have (well, lose) if the production was different. Not necessarily bad, but different.
I definitely agree Meshuggah would benefit from a bit of outsourcing there. The music they write could be an awesome playground for the right guy. DEI is fucking ridiculously awesome, but right now it just feels their music isn't quite reaching its full potential.
Edit: Wow, I managed to sound like quite the art-fag didn't I :/
I definitely agree Meshuggah would benefit from a bit of outsourcing there. The music they write could be an awesome playground for the right guy. DEI is fucking ridiculously awesome, but right now it just feels their music isn't quite reaching its full potential.
Edit: Wow, I managed to sound like quite the art-fag didn't I :/
RemoWilliams
¯\(°_o)/¯ How meet Devil?
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In reading that I started to wonder who would be the 'right guy(s)" to get Meshuggah? I mean, I imagine the band is very much into their own writing process and taking their time and that would lead me to think that then it would have to be somebody their comfortable with. I'd imagine taking the chance and spending the cash and then having a product their not happy with could be irritating. But then, maybe Meshuggah just like going at their own pace. I can only speculate how they work when writing.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
A very important thing to acknowledge.
Engineers sometimes get confused by the general listener's lack of notice toward production aesthetics, to the point that they forget those aesthetics affect the way that listener perceives the record on a fundamental level.
Because they don't understand what production is, nor what it does, it's even more important for it to carry the music appropriately. The layman perceives the mix as a part of the music. If the mix is strong, they will actually feel that the compositions carry more weight.
When I saw Meshuggah live here the last time they were out, it blew my mind. Literally, it was the best gig I've ever witnessed. I couldn't believe how much power was being lost via the production & mix of obZen. I couldn't listen to the CD for months after because it sounded like some parody, popcorn imitation of the behemoth that I witnessed that night.
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
Yeah, that's a tough one. I know bands who have managed to hire producers they have always idolized just to realize their chemistries just don't really work together, ending up with an album that just sounds wonky.
Harry Hughes
âââ¬â¬
- Apr 25, 2009
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Part of the problem is the 8 string guitars.
Due to the sheer range of an 8 string guitar, there is SO much compromise.
Compromises have to be made in the design and manufacture of many aspects of 8 string.
To get the high E/1st to sound smoother you'll end up making the low F#/8th string sound flubbier.
Or get the low F#/8th string to sound tighter and the E/1st string is going to sound kinda sharp and piercing. But even then the low F# string doesn't sound amazing.
The pickups in an 8 string are trying to have a good average sound across all the strings. None of it sounds particularly remarkable at all, it just kinda works at the absolute best.
Guitars need to be within a certain range to sound optimal. 6 and 7 string guitars (7 strings that are not tuned down too much, 2 semi tones at the aboslute most), are within that range and can be designed (and matched with appropriate pickups) to sound exceptional.
8 string guitars are beyond that optimal range.
I've never, ever heard a metal album using 8 strings that had guitar tone that could come even remotely close to that of the best sounding guitar tones on albums with 6 and/or 7 string guitars.
Ultimately, you've gotta work every element around those guitars. The bass guitar, which is just as important as everything else, definitely has to suffer when it's trying to work with 8 string guitars.
Although there's the fact the low 8th string would largely go unused in my playing, the far less than optimal sound of an 8 string plays the biggest factor in me having no interest in ever buying an 8 string guitar.
Due to the sheer range of an 8 string guitar, there is SO much compromise.
Compromises have to be made in the design and manufacture of many aspects of 8 string.
To get the high E/1st to sound smoother you'll end up making the low F#/8th string sound flubbier.
Or get the low F#/8th string to sound tighter and the E/1st string is going to sound kinda sharp and piercing. But even then the low F# string doesn't sound amazing.
The pickups in an 8 string are trying to have a good average sound across all the strings. None of it sounds particularly remarkable at all, it just kinda works at the absolute best.
Guitars need to be within a certain range to sound optimal. 6 and 7 string guitars (7 strings that are not tuned down too much, 2 semi tones at the aboslute most), are within that range and can be designed (and matched with appropriate pickups) to sound exceptional.
8 string guitars are beyond that optimal range.
I've never, ever heard a metal album using 8 strings that had guitar tone that could come even remotely close to that of the best sounding guitar tones on albums with 6 and/or 7 string guitars.
Ultimately, you've gotta work every element around those guitars. The bass guitar, which is just as important as everything else, definitely has to suffer when it's trying to work with 8 string guitars.
Although there's the fact the low 8th string would largely go unused in my playing, the far less than optimal sound of an 8 string plays the biggest factor in me having no interest in ever buying an 8 string guitar.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
All they'd need is someone who feels the music, and knows how to convey the groove. What it needs is pumping, analogue qualities, but not so much as to overshadow the mechanical, droning nature of the music. It has to be a perfect fusion of digital and analogue, and a combination of metal and nu-metal/rock approach to mixing.
Going to sound like a dickwad here, but if given a chance to work with a band of that caliber, and THIS band in particular, I have absolutely no doubt I'd be able to push it in the direction it needs to go. The power in the music is already there - it just needs to be channeled correctly.
Then again, they worked with Bergstrand again with this one, didn't they? If anyone's going to know how to get it happening for them, it's got to be him. He was there for those 'landmark' late 90s records, just before their production went 'eh'.
RemoWilliams
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Good point as well. Suppose we will have to do the waiting game...though I got a feeling Ola or Jocke have a bit of a preview or idea of how it will sound
RemoWilliams
¯\(°_o)/¯ How meet Devil?
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Seeing as your a fan of their music, I believe you'd already have a familiarity with their capabilities.
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