NHL 2014

[rms]

There wasn't a good goalie in these playoffs, Hawks lost because of depth scoring and that terrible ending. Hard to blame anything on Crawford compared to the team failing. The Hawks D sucked for like what, games 2-4? Lot of blame there, but the Kings were awesome.

 

[Nephilim96]

Lundqvist? Price? Rask?

 

[MasterOLightning]

I don't think save percentage is a good way to evaluate goalies over the short term. On its face, it doesn't account for the skill in front of the goalie. It doesn't isolate power plays, it doesn't isolate breakaways, it doesn't isolate defensive botches. I don't like that stat. It's not bad over a large set of information, but it is bad over seven random games. Crawford was burned by some bad PK against the Kings, but got great PK in the first two rounds.

Let's not kid ourselves by talking about the Eastern Conference. There's so little scoring depth there, of course the goalies look good. I do think Lundquist is best in the NHL, and Price and Rask are very good. But teams that can score have a way of making star goalies look ordinary. The Hawks never looked especially bothered by Quick the past two years. They scored enough to beat Rask the year before. There aren't very many 1-0 or 2-1 games anymore. Goalies are less important than impact scoring and roster depth.

 

[Nephilim96]

I don't think save percentage is a good way to evaluate goalies over the short term. On its face, it doesn't account for the skill in front of the goalie. It doesn't isolate power plays, it doesn't isolate breakaways, it doesn't isolate defensive botches. I don't like that stat. It's not bad over a large set of information, but it is bad over seven random games. Crawford was burned by some bad PK against the Kings, but got great PK in the first two rounds.

Even if you don't think it's Crawford's fault (even though I personally think he let in quite a few soft goals and played fairly bad for the most part), it's still the defenses' fault (not just the defensemen, but total team defense) for the loss to LA. How the hell can you blame it on Sharp when the team is giving up 4 or 5 goals a night to the top defensive team during the regular season? I agree that Save% and GAA aren't perfect stats, but even if your defense is playing poorly, a good goalie should be able to bail out the skaters in front of him once in a while, and limit the damage. It seemed like for almost every legit goal that LA scored, Crawford let in something that was iffy and could've been stopped. I don't have any examples on the top of my head right now, but I definitely remember some shoddy play by Crawford. If I have to, I'll rewatch the highlights in the morning and point out which goals I think were bad.

Nevertheless, Chicago had bigger problems than just Sharp's lack of production.

Goalies are less important than impact scoring and roster depth.

Go tell that to Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and San Jose.

 

[Nephilim96]

Oh, and the Eastern Conference isn't as good as the Western Conference, no, but they're not that much worse. Some of those goalies I mentioned played some fairly strong offensive teams in Pittsburgh, Boston, Philadelphia, etc.

 

[rms]

Mason had the best SV% of the playoffs and he lost in the first round..Pitt didn't lose because of MAF and San Jose just collapsed.

In the east, Boston was the only team that could compete for the cup. NYR sucks and MTL does as well, weak possession teams that depend on their goalie way too often and lack of production from stud players. Nash not scoring is such a joke and I don't know why everyone thinks he's awesome, or even Brad Richards being incredibly sub par. When it comes to the NHL, the Hawks and Kings are the best built teams, bar none.

 

[End of Glory]

Mason had the best SV% of the playoffs and he lost in the first round..Pitt didn't lose because of MAF and San Jose just collapsed.

In the east, Boston was the only team that could compete for the cup. NYR sucks and MTL does as well, weak possession teams that depend on their goalie way too often and lack of production from stud players. Nash not scoring is such a joke and I don't know why everyone thinks he's awesome, or even Brad Richards being incredibly sub par. When it comes to the NHL, the Hawks and Kings are the best built teams, bar none.

Define "everyone". I want Nash out of the Rangers. Even a bag with pucks would almost be a great deal.

 

[Nephilim96]

Mason had the best SV% of the playoffs and he lost in the first round..Pitt didn't lose because of MAF and San Jose just collapsed.

I'm saying in general, not just this year. All 3 of those teams have had major goalie problems in the playoffs during the last 5+ years.

 

[rms]

There's more to the game than just allowing goals. Any team can have their goalie collapse and be terrible, but controlling possession is probably the most important aspect of the game next to first pass exits from the DZone and that is something being explored statistically right now. I am starting to believe that the cost of a supreme goalie ala Lundqvist will hurt a team more than paying a guy like James Reimer.

 

[Kara-Shehr]

The Pens finally have a new fucking head coach. Hopefully we see some more trade action as we get closer to free agency. I'm very excited.

 

[Kara-Shehr]

And for the record I completely don't give a shit about the draft at this point. The top prospects become less impressive every year in my opinion.

 

[Mort Divine]

Next year has the most hyped top pick since Crosby in McDavid

Also apparently Detroit is talking to Buffalo about Myers...hmm

 

[rms]

Man that haul for Myers would have to include Nyquist. But I don't think that's going to happen unless Reinhart goes 1st and we take Ekblad. I have heard way more rumors about you guys and Ehrhoff, which seems more plausible/likely.

 

[Nephilim96]

I can see Tatar + going for Myers, but not Nyquist.

There's more to the game than just allowing goals. Any team can have their goalie collapse and be terrible, but controlling possession is probably the most important aspect of the game next to first pass exits from the DZone and that is something being explored statistically right now. I am starting to believe that the cost of a supreme goalie ala Lundqvist will hurt a team more than paying a guy like James Reimer.

Yes, there is more to the game than just allowing goals, but if you do allow too many goals, you will likely lose. A bad goalie can be the difference between a 3-2 win and a 4-3 loss. I don't think you necessarily need the best goalie in the league, but even if you have the best roster depth in the league, a bad goalie like Ondrej Pavelec can really fuck up a team. (I'm not saying the Jets have a good roster, Pavelec is just an example of a really bad goalie).

And controlling possession is important, most teams have good Corsi and Fenwick numbers, but that those stats are still very flawed, and they don't take into account scoring chance quality or anything of the like. FWIW.

 

[rms]

If the Wings wants Myers, they are going to have to give up Nyquist or tatar+mantha+1st or something. There's no reason for us to sell Myers now and he's improving so his price definitely has to be high

 

[Mort Divine]

Asking for Mantha or Nyquist is absurd and completely unreasonable.

We can start with

Tatar + 1st + prospect

or

Smith + 1st + prospect

Any higher than that and it is not going to do any good for this team overall.

Myers may be improving, but we don't need him so much that we'd trade two players who have all star potential and who are major parts of our future. Ryan Sproul has the ability to be as good or better than Myers anyways in a few years.

 

[rms]

You value our best young player way to little. Calder and 4 years of experience with a small cap hit and even smaller payouts with a good contract until 18-19 season. If you only want to give up Tatar you're looking at 2 1sts then probably in 14/15

 

[Mort Divine]

Calder means nothing. He hasn't put up numbers like his rookie year since then. He might have had a resurgence in terms of points this year, but he also had a career worst +/- (which while not telling the entire story does say a lot)

I'm interested in the trade, but the value just doesn't seem there for either team.

As far as offensive defenseman go, I'm quite happy with Smith as it is anyways. He had some REALLY bad moments, but to score 19 points with literally one power play opportunity (one where he scored a goal) is great for a blueliner.

 

[rms]

We were the worst team for a reason, do you really expect him to have a positive +/-? He's not an OFD, he's responsible both ways while being able to move. But if you tihnk a 3rd line forward + 1st rounder is fair for Myers than there is no point

 

[Mort Divine]

Aye, true. I don't think there really is value in the trade happening, and I guess your GM came out and said he isn't shopping anyone but he had calls and said he would "listen" so it probably isn't happening anyways (not that Kenny would have the guts to pull off a big trade)

However, I don't think viewing Tatar as a third liner is fair to his ability. He played mostly on the third line and scored just about 20 goals (and would have if he was played from the start rather than being pressboxed in favor of Danny fucking Cleary)

How many "third liners" give you 20 goals?

He definitely has top 6 skill