Now building Load-boxes with variable line out.
- Thread starter TheWinterSnow
- Start date
This is gotta be great. I have been looking for this kind of thing for some time now. A loadbox with a line level output with no speaker simulation - to use with cab impulses. If I get everything right - with this device I will be able to silently (without speaker cabinet) capture my amp's "after power section signal" then send it to my Audio interface/Axe FX II, where the cab simulation will happen and finally record a complete sound in my DAW? I was already going to make a loadbox myself and buy a BEHRINGER GI 100 ULTRA-G to use them both simultaneously for that purpose, but then I stumbled upon this thread. I'd rather buy a 2 in 1 device with extra features for almost the same price I'd spend on those two.
I am not sure which version should I get (I mean do I need those add-ons for my chain (Guitar, pedals --> 5150II/VH4 --> This Load box --> Axe Fx II (with Red Wires) --> DAW))?
Anyway - I would definitely like to see some pics of the Unit + some posible hookup schemes (without/with addons).
I am not sure which version should I get (I mean do I need those add-ons for my chain (Guitar, pedals --> 5150II/VH4 --> This Load box --> Axe Fx II (with Red Wires) --> DAW))?
Anyway - I would definitely like to see some pics of the Unit + some posible hookup schemes (without/with addons).
@snegdk: with using an AxeFX to run impulses, you can get away with using the base model.
UPDATE: It seems like I most likely not be able to do international shipping without extreme customs tax + shipping (~300% more than the selling price) so be warned. You can if interested send me your address and I can let you know exactly where the shipping and customs is, but until I actually meet with someone on international shipping, they might be way more extreme than expected.
UPDATE: It seems like I most likely not be able to do international shipping without extreme customs tax + shipping (~300% more than the selling price) so be warned. You can if interested send me your address and I can let you know exactly where the shipping and customs is, but until I actually meet with someone on international shipping, they might be way more extreme than expected.
Unfortunately due to economic reasons, (prices going up and miscalculating prices), everyone that has not inquired me or has already ordered will have to pay the new price. At this moment I am actually in the hole $40, that is how cheap the product is. Get at it soon, because the prices can easily go up, it all depends.
The good news is, as we speak, I am beginning to work on the PCB for the 5150 clean mod kits and they will be available within the next week. I will announce when they are ready when I release the how to installation and demo video.
The good news is, as we speak, I am beginning to work on the PCB for the 5150 clean mod kits and they will be available within the next week. I will announce when they are ready when I release the how to installation and demo video.
Update again, the prices have gone up, I have removed the cabinet attenuation as L-Pads only go up to 100W and I have to mod them as they are for hifi. I will be building separate attenuators that will do the same thing but can handle higher power.
I will have pictures of the current two builds in a few.
I will have pictures of the current two builds in a few.
setyouranchor
Celestial Recordings
So what is the total price (inc. shopping to the uk) at right now mate? Looking to get a load box soonish!
Right now it is 130 USD +shipping/customs. If you email me an address I can give you an final quote.
Pics of the current two I am working on:
The new 1590X Case with 100W load resistor and l-Pad attenuator
Original design 1590KK with 150W load resistor
Board half finished (broke two drill bits, so I ordered more and picked up a drill press so it won't happen again).
The new 1590X Case with 100W load resistor and l-Pad attenuator
Original design 1590KK with 150W load resistor
Board half finished (broke two drill bits, so I ordered more and picked up a drill press so it won't happen again).
TRUIE
Member
Hi,
Can you explain this a little more ?
I ask this because at the moment, I record my amp output with a Countryman Type85 DI and a TubeTown Tonehound Loadbox, using this setup :
Will your loadbox help me improve the quality of the signal I record ? (I'm looking for a better feeling of amp/load interaction, like in real life).
Also, do you have any news about the version with reactive load ?
Can you explain this a little more ?
I ask this because at the moment, I record my amp output with a Countryman Type85 DI and a TubeTown Tonehound Loadbox, using this setup :
Will your loadbox help me improve the quality of the signal I record ? (I'm looking for a better feeling of amp/load interaction, like in real life).
Also, do you have any news about the version with reactive load ?
I will give you a synopsis as to why I have beef with the current solutions.
For starters when you have a DI box in parallel with the load (even if it is a cab or reactive loadbox) is that the DI is lowering the load and its transformer adds additional inductances/inductance votlages which on paper are minute enough to not be an issue, but it is not ideal. The next big thing is that DI's where originally designed for live use and therefor where intended to go into a mic preamp. This is fine live, but for reamping guitars in a studio this has a whole list of problems. First, the DI transformer has a stepdown ratio that matches that of a mic level, and thus has to be amplified by a preamp. Any amplification causes noise. To top it off, with a mic preamp, you need it to be linear as possible. Hyper-Linear preamps are not abundant nor cheap.
My solution was to make a loadbox that had a lineout instead, completely bypassing the need for a preamp. But I took it a step further, I made sure that all sensitive components where separated from each other by using buffers. This means that we have maximum input impedance to not effect the load on the amp and minimal output impedance as to have the capability to deliver as much current to the A/D Converters as they desire to draw, without effecting the amp, without causing distortion (THD). Not only that, but we have eliminated the need for a DI Box and a Mic Preamp. The load and the "Pseudo-DI" are an all-in-one solution and is much cheaper than buying all of the traditional components. To top it all off I added the speaker distortion simulator which mimics the way a speaker reacts to its assembly. What you get is one box that loads your amp, and provides you with an ultra-linear line level output.
I cannot say that it will improve performance over the Tonehound -> Type 85 -> Pre setup as I have never used that setup and cannot comment it, but I can say that my product will do the same thing for a much cheaper price.
For starters when you have a DI box in parallel with the load (even if it is a cab or reactive loadbox) is that the DI is lowering the load and its transformer adds additional inductances/inductance votlages which on paper are minute enough to not be an issue, but it is not ideal. The next big thing is that DI's where originally designed for live use and therefor where intended to go into a mic preamp. This is fine live, but for reamping guitars in a studio this has a whole list of problems. First, the DI transformer has a stepdown ratio that matches that of a mic level, and thus has to be amplified by a preamp. Any amplification causes noise. To top it off, with a mic preamp, you need it to be linear as possible. Hyper-Linear preamps are not abundant nor cheap.
My solution was to make a loadbox that had a lineout instead, completely bypassing the need for a preamp. But I took it a step further, I made sure that all sensitive components where separated from each other by using buffers. This means that we have maximum input impedance to not effect the load on the amp and minimal output impedance as to have the capability to deliver as much current to the A/D Converters as they desire to draw, without effecting the amp, without causing distortion (THD). Not only that, but we have eliminated the need for a DI Box and a Mic Preamp. The load and the "Pseudo-DI" are an all-in-one solution and is much cheaper than buying all of the traditional components. To top it all off I added the speaker distortion simulator which mimics the way a speaker reacts to its assembly. What you get is one box that loads your amp, and provides you with an ultra-linear line level output.
I cannot say that it will improve performance over the Tonehound -> Type 85 -> Pre setup as I have never used that setup and cannot comment it, but I can say that my product will do the same thing for a much cheaper price.
TRUIE
Member
Thanks a lot for this detailed explanation.
I also tried this setup, with an Avalon U5 DI (I'm forced to do this because you can't use the regular Input/Thru to record amplifier output ; they did a Speaker Input for that use, but there isn't any Speaker Thru Output) :
To me, it sounded better with the Type85 setup.
The U5 also have a LineOut, I still have to try it.
Your solution is pretty interesting, I'm very curious to try it and compare to the 2 others setup I'm using. I think it will sound better to use a loadbox with line out like yours, rather than recording the signal BEFORE it hits the loadbox like I do.
I'll buy one as soon as you'll do a version with reactive load
Just a last question : with your loadboxes, with the line output, how do you manage the recording volume that hits your DAW ?
I also tried this setup, with an Avalon U5 DI (I'm forced to do this because you can't use the regular Input/Thru to record amplifier output ; they did a Speaker Input for that use, but there isn't any Speaker Thru Output) :
To me, it sounded better with the Type85 setup.
The U5 also have a LineOut, I still have to try it.
Your solution is pretty interesting, I'm very curious to try it and compare to the 2 others setup I'm using. I think it will sound better to use a loadbox with line out like yours, rather than recording the signal BEFORE it hits the loadbox like I do.
I'll buy one as soon as you'll do a version with reactive load
Just a last question : with your loadboxes, with the line output, how do you manage the recording volume that hits your DAW ?
heshian46
Member
The line out of the load box is variable. You would control the volume with a pot on the box.
TRUIE
Member
Update: I am currently freezing all new and current orders. I have been having an intermittent problem with the PCB as they do no operate with enough headroom to handle the full amp's power, this is due to some weird biasing effect that is taking place, probably from stray capacitance and crosstalk. I spent the morning putting together another prototype of the same circuit and it worked, so the design works, the components work, they just don't like being put on the PCB.
Here is the video of me demonstrating the cleanliness of the output and showing off the effect of the speaker saturation mod.
@0:34 you see the soft knee compression of the distortion
@1:15 you see the input of the speaker saturation and the output superimposed to see how much the peaks of the signal are being clipped off.
@1:23 you see how the input signal effects the clipping (higher input, a harder clip). When the signal is small there is almost no distortion.
@1:30 you can see that the maximum headroom of the output is 7Vpp, the maximum output from the amp at full power is only 5.2Vpp (after the attenuation network post load) and +4dB line level is ~3.4Vpp. There is so much gain and output impedance is so low, that is why the standard model does not come with balanced out.
Here is the video of me demonstrating the cleanliness of the output and showing off the effect of the speaker saturation mod.
@0:34 you see the soft knee compression of the distortion
@1:15 you see the input of the speaker saturation and the output superimposed to see how much the peaks of the signal are being clipped off.
@1:23 you see how the input signal effects the clipping (higher input, a harder clip). When the signal is small there is almost no distortion.
@1:30 you can see that the maximum headroom of the output is 7Vpp, the maximum output from the amp at full power is only 5.2Vpp (after the attenuation network post load) and +4dB line level is ~3.4Vpp. There is so much gain and output impedance is so low, that is why the standard model does not come with balanced out.
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So it looks like the failures where a mix of having some traces too close to each other and the solder pads on the components being too small and causes the copper pads to disconnect from the board when drilled. Not only that but the actual drill holes don't match the size specified (the program apparently isn't accurate with measurements). So I have to spend some time updating the libraries and redoing the dimensions of the components that came with the program (a real PITA). Unfortunately I was not able to get a PCB finished before my local printers closed and therefor I will have to wait until tomorrow to get my transparencies.
ALSO: Since it looks like the balanced out and outboard mods are not popular, I removed them and decided to add the speaker mod as a part of the standard model. Maybe the balanced out will become an option in the future, but I designed the loadbox around the idea that it can drive a balanced A/D input perfectly even though it is unbalanced. Using a TRS cable will take care of the noise issue. It's a little something I call virtually balanced.
ALSO: Since it looks like the balanced out and outboard mods are not popular, I removed them and decided to add the speaker mod as a part of the standard model. Maybe the balanced out will become an option in the future, but I designed the loadbox around the idea that it can drive a balanced A/D input perfectly even though it is unbalanced. Using a TRS cable will take care of the noise issue. It's a little something I call virtually balanced.
ChrisTanakaCanwell
Member
heshian46
Member
Right now I am testing everything out, did a quick audio clip and was jamming with some impulses and it sounds fucking sick. It sounds better than I expected.
I have to make mention of this while I can. To anyone that wants these needs to hurry up and pick one (or two) up within the next week or so because I have student loans that will be due in September, and if I don't have a constant flow of around 5 units (whether loadbox or 5150 clean mod kits and anything else in the works), the turnaround times can easily turn into 5-6+ months if ever. There may be a possibility that I may have to shut down for an unforeseeable future unless like I said I keep a constant number of orders.
Get them now while you can.
I will have audio clips in the next few hours.
Also, I may make another thread in the OT, but I have made a FB page.
http://www.facebook.com/CorvusEngineering
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