Official Off Topic Thread

I sincerely doubt that making the practice illegal would stop it, it would likely just drive up the mortality rate among the group of women that would continue to seek the procedure out from less reputable sources/doctors/whatever.

Alright, I'm done. :lol:
 
From Wikipedia:

8 to 15 weeks

The fetal stage commences at eight weeks when the fetus is typically about 30 mm (1.2 inches) in length from crown to rump and the head makes up nearly half of the fetus' size. The fetus cannot feel pain, is not yet sentient.

This means up to 15 weeks into a pregnancy (just under 4 months) a fetus is not even aware of itself! If something is not aware that it is alive, what difference does it make to kill it?

As I said before, Christians believe there is a soul, and that is what makes a human life special. I am an atheist. A soul does not exist to me. A country has no business passing legislation based on the mystic beliefs of a religion. End of story. Preach abstinence and watch humans become sexually repressed, which leads to things like cheating on their spouse, rape, and sexual deviants. And yea, they'll still have abortions, but of the whisky and coat hanger variety.
 
I sincerely doubt that making the practice illegal would stop it, it would likely just drive up the mortality rate among the group of women that would continue to seek the procedure out from less reputable sources/doctors/whatever.
Regardless of where one comes out on the issue, we should all be able to agree that this would be the case should abortion become illegal...it wouldn't be pretty.

I love this forum :)
 
From Wikipedia:

8 to 15 weeks

The fetal stage commences at eight weeks when the fetus is typically about 30 mm (1.2 inches) in length from crown to rump and the head makes up nearly half of the fetus' size. The fetus cannot feel pain, is not yet sentient.

This means up to 15 weeks into a pregnancy (just under 4 months) a fetus is not even aware of itself! If something is not aware that it is alive, what difference does it make to kill it?

As I said before, Christians believe there is a soul, and that is what makes a human life special. I am an atheist. A soul does not exist to me. A country has no business passing legislation based on the mystic beliefs of a religion. End of story. Preach abstinence and watch humans become sexually repressed, which leads to things like cheating on their spouse, rape, and sexual deviants. And yea, they'll still have abortions, but of the whisky and coat hanger variety.

Preach abstinence and watch nothing happen. It's no secret that this government funded propaganda failed miserably. In high school, I was amazed that they were allowed to preach such blatant religiously motivated BS with no consequence.

If stupidity and ignorance are quantifiable, I wonder what the collective of humans would look like?
 
A country has no business passing legislation based on the mystic beliefs of a religion. End of story. Preach abstinence and watch humans become sexually repressed, which leads to things like cheating on their spouse, rape, and sexual deviants. And yea, they'll still have abortions, but of the whisky and coat hanger variety.

Dude, I said this like two pages ago. No one listens to me :(
 
I'm a Christian and I think, as previously stated, abortion is not a decision people should make for others. Nobody decides whether you get to live or die, so why are we even debating it? The only person entitled to decide is the potential mother. I again say that it should be judged circumstantially. There is no blanket rule on this issue, that' absolute ludicrousy. In most cases, I would say that the situations do not call for it, but there are some special circumstances where I feel it is ok. But it's not my choice, like I said, it's theirs. And not yours either, unless it's you.

I can't believe people are so pompous as to think that their opinion can and should rule over the lives of others.
 
Regardless of where one comes out on the issue, we should all be able to agree that this would be the case should abortion become illegal...it wouldn't be pretty.

I love this forum :)

Agreed.

I'm a Christian and I think, as previously stated, abortion is not a decision people should make for others. Nobody decides whether you get to live or die, so why are we even debating it? The only person entitled to decide is the potential mother. I again say that it should be judged circumstantially. There is no blanket rule on this issue, that' absolute ludicrousy. In most cases, I would say that the situations do not call for it, but there are some special circumstances where I feel it is ok. But it's not my choice, like I said, it's theirs. And not yours either, unless it's you.

I can't believe people are so pompous as to think that their opinion can and should rule over the lives of others.

And seconded.
 
I myself know one kid that screws around and he said that if worst comes to worst then he can just abort the kid.
HE can abort the kid?? When HE can become pregnant, then HE can do what HE damn well likes with the foetus, but until such time, HE needs to shut the fuck up about that which HE will never personally experience...

Abortion is a personal issue, and it is the woman who, 99.99% of the time, has to make that decision, and live with the consequences one way or another.

Also, why is it always the woman who gets blamed for getting pregnant? Unless I slept my way through years of biology at school, it does take two to tango. The man is seen as the stud, the woman as a slut... double standards, people...
 
This will be a never ending debate. (The Great Debate lolololoololol111)

The ol' Religious People VS Sane People thing is pointless.
 
Also, why is it always the woman who gets blamed for getting pregnant?

I usually blame the dude... I mean, technically it is the guy who gets the girl pregnant... he takes the ultimate responsibility IMO. Not that a dumbass girl who knowingly has sex with a guy without any precautions (condoms or birth control) is innocent, but in the end, its the dude's load.
 
Igniting the flame here.

3) You're frikken stupid if you think people will froglock more without protection just because they can do abortions later on. Seriously. You're calling it a fact. You're so unenlightened I wanna punch you in the mouth.

<I wrote some stuff here regarding how tuttifrutty stupid some people seem to be who want to bring values of a single religion in a nationwide politics. But I don't want to get the thread locked. So I'm doing it discreetly: You're apeshit crazy.>

I'm with the guys/girls saying you can't put the abortion issue into bureaucracy. That's moronic.

EDIT: I edited my post because, yeah, I guess I used quite a bit o' language in there. But that did tick me off quite a bit.

Lay off the personal attacks..this is your only warning. Thanks. :)
 
It was totally worth it, though. I'm feeling so much better now.

But it won't happen again.

Its people like you that ruin these threads. You think that using language and cussing people out will help you in a argument or something. For your information, after reading your post i lost all respect for you because you are obviously a immature hothead that uses no logic to argue.

Last time i am arguing/debating on the computer...
 
So I guess my question then becomes, why do people blindly attack religion with bits such as "the religious people vs. the sane people" and the like? I can quote from my own personal experience that I have gone through many facets of religion. I was brought up Catholic, with all the repression and guilt that goes along with it. Growing up in the '80's, I was affronted by the blindness of certain televangelists who made blind claims of devil worship in music, even going so far as to put the members of Journey on their list. Like many others on this list, I rejected religion and thought myself to be an "atheist". I can best describe that part of my life as empty. Since I met my wife, who is a strong Christian, I have allowed God back into my life. Not blindly and automatically - I've still had my fights over my previous experiences; however, I can say that my life is much more "full" now than it has ever been, and I thank my wife constantly for righting my ship. Am I a religious zealot? Far from it, and don't treat me as such. I can say that I regard myself as principled person though, and my opinions are asserted through my principles, not "blind" beliefs.

I read many of the comments throughout this argument and I see that there are hypocrisies on both sides of the argument (religious vs. non-religious, I mean). Personal attacks against somebody's core beliefs are rather non-productive and tend to illegitimate your argument. But people will be people.

Ken, on one hand, I agree with your argument about the personal choice of abortion; but, on the other, my principles tell me abortion is not a good thing. And again I fall back to my thoughts that abortion is used by people to coer a mistake in judgement that happened along the way. There are many alternatives to abortion, such as adoption, that do not bring up such heated debates from others. Would the guy or girl involved in the "mistake" learn a life lesson by aborting the child? In my opinion and experience, no, they would not. What they would learn is an easy way out after their mistake, and apply those same easy outs to other parts of their lives. It is a very difficult thing to do, to step up to the plate and be accountable for their acts or decisions. I have struggled myself on many occasions, and can even say that I've avoided accountability. What has that gotten me? A long string of guilt and regret over the years. Looking back, had I stood up and held myself accountable for what I did, I would have dealt with it and it would be over, eventually. I hear many of the same stories from women who have had abortions in the past.

As far as criminal negligence and rape activity, I'm very torn. I think it should be a decision a woman (or, sadly, a girl [and her parents]} can make to abort something brought about by a hateful act; however, that leaves the door open to say any conception was brought about by rape or otherwise against consent. Perhaps tying the abortion to a police report could assist in the matters, with paternity tests to ensure Boyfriend X is not the father. But that then gets complicated and may add unnecessary stress to already over-stressed legal system.

So then the argument of mandatory contraception comes into play. I thougth it a good idea at first, but then I thought about it more often. On one hand, individuals are saying government and others have no place in a woman's decision to abort a pregnancy; but, now, these same people seem to argue that it is ok for a government to force people to sterilize themselves, albeit temporarily, until another person tells them they are ready to raise a child. I don't like that idea anymore. And the argument of separation of church and state applies myriad fold in this new argument: a government would be stomping a mudhole in many religions, particularly Catholicism, and their beliefs against birth control. So, mandatory contraception, on paper, is a great idea; unfortunately, it is very much an unconstitutional idea, at least in the US.

That leaves me to my final opinion, that life education principles should be taught in school. All things influencing life, including the consequences of sex, the consequences of mismanaging money, and the consequences of any decision should be taught to our children. And the parents should be held accountable for the learnings of their children. That's a tough thing for many to grab onto though, it seems, since most parents are entirely too selfish to raise children these days. Parents should be there for their children, not only as a support structure, but as a boundary privider as well.

Enough rantings though. Congratulations to you if you actually read all that mess.
 
Its people like you that ruin these threads. You think that using language and cussing people out will help you in a argument or something. For your information, after reading your post i lost all respect for you because you are obviously a immature hothead that uses no logic to argue.

Last time i am arguing/debating on the computer...

You lay off the personal attacks too..you've been warned. Thanks. :)

Time for a new (off)topic, kids..let the abortion thing rest now.