Official Off Topic Thread

[ABQShredHead]

For pubicly traded companies, they do need to show profitability for their shareholders; otherwise, they may lose investments. Without investments in the company, capital can be lost and the company may not be able to grow. It's a vicious cycle. But, Wallstreet on this side of the pond is at least changing to begin looking at company cash flows as a primary metric.

 

[Meedleyx10]

I don't take what Mark is saying to be xenophobic in the least. To my understanding of skimming the topic, he's complaining (and correct me if i'm wrong) about people who are here illegally (and people who come from mexico and are not here via proper channels is illegal based on the laws in our country) who are causing problems in the community and the country. I don't think it's to say that they're all rotten people, but they are here illegally, and they don't belong here. The law states they shouldn't, so why give them the benefits of living here?

The voice of reason.

 

[razoredge]

bullshit, bullshit, bullshit ! If the reducing of costs was the issue its proclaimed to be corporate officers and other corporate ladder climbers would not be paid the rediculous sum of money they are payed, most of whom have run the American companies into the ground. Another thing that shows up is you see business owners dumping revenue like crazy toward the end of the year to reduce the tax burden, well gee, I can think of a way to fairly dump this revenue. The text book capitalist propaganda doesnt fly over my head. You simply have people that dont think the labor provided to them is worth hoot, they dont want to see anybody else doing good, it would place their value too high and we cant have that.

 

[ABQShredHead]

Do you think a company would do well with an executive who made $30 an hour? Maybe we'll see if we can find the one person to make all decisions for our company, and we'll pay him/her $45 per hour. I'm sure there are plenty of candidates out there who will accept that much responsibility for as little pay as we can afford.

I haven't heard of companies dumping revenue to lower their tax burden - only consumers giving money to charities to reduce their taxable income and move to a lower tax bracket.

And, quite honestly, labor is worth whatever anybody is willing to take to do the job. Person X may hold out for $40 per hour to pick oranges, but the grove owner will hire Persons A-W well before hiring Person X. Now, if Persons A-W also wanted $40 per hour, then the going rate for orange pickers would be $40 per hour.

 

[razoredge]

I would expect a higher quality of management where greed not the incentive to do the job.

Yes high paid managment does dump money into tax deductable investments that are often accepted as a loss of play money.

Yes, things are done by companies to "show a loss"

One shinning example of a money pit I can think of is horse ranches, I've seen plenty of them built and have yet to see one that doesnt fold within a few years. Its well know they are done as a write off and are NOT sound investments.

 

[CantoX]

Americans who complain about illegals such as mexians (and other nationalities) are (at least I think) hypocrites. You really don't want illegals in the United States?

1) Who is going to do the lower class jobs. Sure, this may come off as racist, but it isn't. A lot of mexians do a lot of jobs that most white people won't do. If they aren't here then whos going to be doing these jobs?
2) The people of the United States are all immigrants themselves, except for American Indians. You want justice? Grab a gun and start genociding the whole white race in the United States, because as far as I'm concerend, the whites came to America and stole the American Indian's land/raped their women/stole their money/tried to genocide them.

So yeah.. enforce better border security, but don't get rid of the ones who are already here. And stop bitching about illegals. You're all illegal according to the American Indians.

 

[Beelzebub]

For me, it doesn't even make it to the contributing to the economy part.
If my polo shirt wasn't made in China, it was probably made in Mexico. Is that shirt sewing job in Mexico any better than picking berries in the US?

Yes it does. When I mentioned clothing, I was talking about clothes made in the US. Sweatshop labor isn't limited to Pakistan and Indonesia; it occurs here too. Prices for produce would skyrocket if people were paid a living wage to harvest it. Meatpacking became a job for the Mexicans once it became an unskilled trade; look how cheap beef is.

I still stand by what part of ILLEGAL isn't understood by the bleeding hearts on this issue (no offense Yas... )

Offense taken.


Soooo... Friday Five anyone?

 

[Kenneth R.]

It's a lot of the stuff in opinions like this (not Canto or Yas above) that make me tell everyone I meet that I am anything BUT American. British, Canadian... whatever is necessary to not be lumped in with the self righteous hypocrites overdosing on consumer-nation.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Americans who complain about illegals such as mexians (and other nationalities) are (at least I think) hypocrites. You really don't want illegals in the United States?

1) Who is going to do the lower class jobs. Sure, this may come off as racist, but it isn't. A lot of mexians do a lot of jobs that most white people won't do. If they aren't here then whos going to be doing these jobs?
2) The people of the United States are all immigrants themselves, except for American Indians. You want justice? Grab a gun and start genociding the whole white race in the United States, because as far as I'm concerend, the whites came to America and stole the American Indian's land/raped their women/stole their money/tried to genocide them.

So yeah.. enforce better border security, but don't get rid of the ones who are already here. And stop bitching about illegals. You're all illegal according to the American Indians.

So am I right in assuming that you'd like to see the entire white race eliminated from this country? What then, mosques on every corner? would that make you happier? The issue here isn't the multiculturalism, it's people who aren't LEGALLY supposed to be here. I didn't kill any Indians, and my familly came to be here through the proper channels. My dad's side has been here since the late 1600's. My mom's side came here to escape WWI in Europe. No one in my ancestory came here illegally. We're talking the present, not 2-300 years ago.

Furthermore, enforcing border security involves deporting/detaining people who crossed over illegally. What's the sense in enforcing the borders without enforcing our country's laws? Amnesty for all, THEN worry about the borders? Bullshit! I'm still waiting for someone to debate the legal/illegal issue here. You all want this free range Utopia crap, and that's fine, have a nice pipe dream! It may have worked a out ok a thousand years ago, but it doesn't work now. My kingdom for a nice long bloody civil war in my lifetime...

Offense taken.

Oh well.....

 

[Yngvai X]

1) Who is going to do the lower class jobs. Sure, this may come off as racist, but it isn't. A lot of mexians do a lot of jobs that most white people won't do. If they aren't here then whos going to be doing these jobs?

The same people that have always done them: people who are willing to work for the price. I skimmed over a lot of the last few pages, but I think ABQ pretty much nailed the issue, if you want higher wages, stop taking the jobs for less and less money. Mexicans work for dirt cheap because they're fine with cramming like 20 of them into a 1 bedroom apartment and taking buses or bikes everywhere. Their standard of living is a hell of a lot less expensive than most Americans. Either way, an honest employer is going to hire the person most qualified for a given job. I doubt many Mexicans are stealing IT jobs away from computer science majors in Silicon Valley.

Canto Im sure if you really needed the money, and the only way you could get it was by cleaning urinals in a movie theater, you'd take it. So no, the "lower class" jobs are not "reserved" for Mexicans. But I'll side with J-Dub, ABQ, and Zach here... my great grandparents came over from Italy in the 1920's the proper, legal way, and worked hard to establish themselves here. If we don't enforce stricter immigration policies, anyone that thinks they can bogart their way into our country is gonna do it. You couldn't pull shit like that anywhere else.

 

[Phanto]

At the Gates tonight! Woooooo!

 

[razoredge]

BAM ! Yngvai NAILED it, exactly what I stated in the beginning, over supply of people willing to work cheap is keeping labor wages at low levels and I know this was done intentionally. We are a country that has a government and that government is suppose to look out for the interests of its citizens... all of them, not just the social climbers. There are millions of natural born citizens in this country whos incomes have been directly effected by this, AND I TAKE OFFENCE. Its so interesting that we as "white people" have to worry about offending others when we are those whom have been imposed on. A PRICELESS distraction, spred guilt around and those that cant seem to grasp the subject of the matter will jump on the racist wagon as a way to appear politically correct and "caring" individuals. Then those from other countried can have thier way with ours and millions of us wonder "what about us", what happened to our American dream that we worked hard for and then evaporated.

There are issues with many younger people today being lazy, shiftless, pasty white assed, couch potatoes, however I have also had the pleasure of working side by side with many a good young man. I have also worked around other ethnics, and frankly I have not seen what the buzz about them being such phenominal workers is all about. So those that live in the Californication mode or are from spoiled suburban-ish upbringing should not assume they are the norm, a plague perhaps but not the defining example of the entire American work force.

Shit when I was a kid the kids mowed lawns for thier play money. Today the kids sit in the house on the video games while some grown man is paid by their parents to do the yard and landscape upkeep, yet know all there is to know about whos willing to work, how much they should be paid and who isnt... priceless

 

[Beelzebub]

Either way, an honest employer is going to hire the person most qualified for a given job. I doubt many Mexicans are stealing IT jobs away from computer science majors in Silicon Valley.

Bad point. An honest employer would pay an adequate living wage for menial labor. There's a skill level that is involved with being in IT that isn't involved with scrubbing toilets. If you have a degree, employers will consider you overqualified to flip burgers.

My dad's side has been here since the late 1600's. My mom's side came here to escape WWI in Europe. No one in my ancestory came here illegally. We're talking the present, not 2-300 years ago.

I never knew Squanto issued green cards.

 

[rockyracoon]

Its so interesting that we as "white people" have to worry about offending others when we are those whom have been imposed on. A PRICELESS distraction, spred guilt around and those that cant seem to grasp the subject of the matter will jump on the racist wagon as a way to appear politically correct and "caring" individuals. Then those from other countried can have thier way with ours and millions of us wonder "what about us", what happened to our American dream that we worked hard for and then evaporated.

So those that live in the Californication mode or are from spoiled suburban-ish upbringing should not assume they are the norm, a plague perhaps but not the defining example of the entire American work force.]

Shit when I was a kid the kids mowed lawns for thier play money. Today the kids sit in the house on the video games while some grown man is paid by their parents to do the yard and landscape upkeep, yet know all there is to know about whos willing to work, how much they should be paid and who isnt... priceless

Do you use heavy or light starch on your white hood? And care to enlighten me as to why you are so entitled to this so-called American dream that you allegedly worked so hard for? Is there some law that said you deserve anything more than you currently have? This whole concept of the American dream is a fucking American joke.

It's funny, I'm from the aforementioned suburban upbringing and raised by parents who worked their asses to the bone for me. And they always told me, don't be a fool like us and piss your life away working. They also told me not to be like you. And I'm sure they worked just as hard as you and your parents.

That's just it! When YOU were a kid. To bad for you that the world has changed. It seems your biggest problem may be an inability to adapt, or even want to.

 

[ABQShredHead]

My issue with illegals is their usurping of our systems and money. They do not contribute back in taxes for what they take from us (yes, us, because we're all tax-paying Americans, correct? Well, those in this country, anyway - if you're not in this country, my rant does not apply to you), and they do not have any intent of adopting our culture. As Americans, we want to bend over backwards to make them feel at home, even to the extent that we should adopt their cultures. So, they absorb our Social Security money, usurp our free education, and kill off our own cultures, cultures that many on this board seem to want killed off because it sickens them. What about the American culture that gives more than any other nation, and gives first when other nations need help? Is that not something we should be fighting for, rather than being ashamed of the small viewpoint promulgated by postmodern ideals and bends?

 

[J-Dubya 777]

I never knew Squanto issued green cards.

Don't be stupid...the point is, that was 300+ years ago, and did the Indians try real hard to get a long with the "inavaders"? By your & Canto's views, we started firing soon as we jumped off the boat. Not to mention. You younger folk seem like you want to rewrite history to appease your bleeding little hearts. As Matt mentioned, some of our parents worked REAL hard to get here,came here within the laws of the country, and busted ass to become "Americans". Quit trying to be Ken...

 

[DoomsdayZach]

This last page has me laughing, but again I can't see any fault in J-Dub or Mark's messages.

It's true. This country was founded by "invaders" who came over, found a place to settle and did so at the expense of many lives and the culture of the natives.no one is disputing that. However, the change DID occur and a government WAS established that now has laws which people must live by. Were the Europeans wrong for coming here and taking the land? That depends entirely on your perspective. Personally, I see it as the law of the land at that point in history. That aggression would not stand in today's world, but back then it was (dare I say?) fairly commonplace. Countries and nations and empires were being overthrown, armies were declaring war, not completely unlike today, but the lack of technology made it both easier and much more brutal when going about your conquering.

So, my point is that yes, the Europeans may have brutalized a culture themselves in (depending on your perspective once again) a much worse way than the mexicans/other illegals are doing now, but times have changed, laws are in place and that's what it comes down to 100%. It is against the law for them to be here and therefore they have no right to be here at the current time and no right to this countries resources. If you feel it's unfair, start petitioning for new laws and get the legal process rolling. Do something about it other than bitch on the internet. BUT I suggest you go to Los Angeles and Arizona before doing so because unless you're there or have been there for a length of time, you just don't have the same perspective.

And about the job thing, the jobs need to be done one way or another. That's the simple truth. If we didn't have illegals doing it at a lower wage, other people WOULD do it and they'd probably get better paid for it. I'm not going to say "OMG THE FUCKIN' MEXICANS ARE STEALING OUR JOBS!" because that's not the case at all. They are simply willing to work harder to stay here and keep any source of income and employers are happy to take advantage of them because they know an illegal citizen can't report their business practices without being investigated themselves. If a legal citizen were to be cleaning the shit off of a wal-mart toilet, the employer would be forced to pay them minimum wage because if not, they'd get sued.

Last comment on the issue from me: The movie starring Adam Carolla entitled "The Hammer" has a good point. He's over at his friend's house who's Nicaraguan (i believe) and they keep talking about their pride for their home country and how much they love it (much like what Mark is talking about) and Adam says "You guys sure seem to love Nicaragua except for the part where you risked your lives not to live there any more." Ring any bells?

Oh, and I'd like to point out for the record that I'm also generally quite liberal. This has nothing to do with racism or being republican or any of that. The issue is that it's illegal for them to be here. The end.

 

[ABQShredHead]

Don't be stupid...

Quit trying to be Ken...

I fell out of my chair on that post.

Very well posted, Zach. I think perspective is definitely key. The issues in the southwest are extremely different than the issues in melting pots like NY. Militia on the "front lines" are one small example, and the ongoing issues with Mexico's drug cartels are further escallating the issues.

And Adam Corolla's quote is spot on in this instance and to my feelings.

 

[razoredge]

rocky, shut the fuck up, that entire post rings of the lack of any ability to comprehend anything that I have said, much of which has been backed up by the post of others. You have nothing to contribute with that nonsence, your post says NOTHING even close to reality. If you want to contribute something constructive that is cohesive I have no problem with it, so maybe try again... or we can just dance if you like.

[sorry mods, but that was a personal attack of "who" I supposedly am and I wont tolerate it]

anyone that wants to give a try at walking my walk is more than welcome... so long as they are not from another country and I would still blow them away.

Dont try to tell me South Americans are all piss and vinegar on the job, if this was the case what explaination is there for the conditions of their countries ?

A few years ago the block company I worked for had two big "Lows" jobs, I dont think Im spelling that right but anyhow... you know... the big home improvement franchise. The masonry was done by Mexicans, it was the shoddyest masonry I have ever seen, the job sites looked like a landfill and they were SLOWER than the "lazy white boys" that were building two adjacent Walmart supermarts, and the "white boys" were a smaller crew... that we also had contracts for. Then part way through the second Lows it was discovered they were all illegals and the large AMERICAN contractor, that built the Walmarts, were contracted to finish the last Lows. This was upstate New York, laddys, not the south west, this has gone on all across this country, and Im alot of things but I am NOT a liar. Those approximately 1.5 large commercial building projects represented alot of work and income for NATURAL born AMERICANS that are more than willing to do the work. So bullshit, IS bullshit and I regret that I was not on the phone to immigration immediately when I saw those guys on that job and got it closed down. But alas, someone else must have finally done it, but it was too little too late. Never again will I give the benefit of the doubt. AMERICAN masons both UNION and NON-UNION make somewhere around $30 per hour in their complete package and are hard working, quality, SKILLED workers AND I DONT BELIEVE "LOWS" HAS ANY SHORTAGE OF INCOME TO BURN !

NEXT ?

 

[ABQShredHead]

Companies typically like the low bids; however, they can quickly find out that low-money bids typically result in low-quality work. On some of our cell sites, we had a contractor long ago that was outbidding everybody by a landslide. When we went back over these sites, we found errors everywhere and then had to pay another contractor to clean up the work. Morale of the story: the company learned their lesson and changed bidding processes, and instituted abilities to deny contractors work base on previous performance.