Official Off Topic Thread

Actually, on second thought, this issue has been beaten to death and I shouldn't really have pushed it on. So, I'll drop it and stop asking questions and poking and prodding. There are better things to discuss around here! Re-reading my post, I kind of came off as a dick. I'm pretty sure, by now at least, everybody knows where everybody else stands on the issue.

There really is nothing left but butt hurt on this issue.:lol:
 
I don't know what group I belong in. I was baptized and without my knowledge part of the Swedish christian church. I quit it as soon as I became aware of it (around the age of 14-15). I don't believe in any god or gods because I think it's silly but I can't deny that I've sometimes thought that maybe there is some sort of higher power that created this. But in no way do I think it would be involved in human lives and events, such as a person surviving a dangerous cancer or something like that. I acknowledge religions but I can't really respect any of them. I have nothing against religious people as long as they don't try to bring it in into completely unrelated topics like in politics. Then it really pisses me off. But other than that I feel pretty neutral. I guess I'm some sort of casual atheist?
 
@ savage

Yeah a little on the edge there, but its cool. You've already set into your own mind that even if God or a god appeared before you, you still would not be convinced.. but isn't that one of the main reasons why people do not believe? Because they can't touch or feel or hear it or understand it?

@ Phanto

The question is.. can you respect someone who believes in a religion that you do not respect?
 
noble savage said:
Actually, on second thought, this issue has been beaten to death and I shouldn't really have pushed it on. So, I'll drop it and stop asking questions and poking and prodding. There are better things to discuss around here! Re-reading my post, I kind of came off as a dick. I'm pretty sure, by now at least, everybody knows where everybody else stands on the issue.

There really is nothing left but butt hurt on this issue.:lol:
Click to expand...
Dude, do you use the same logic to interpret other things in life? For example, you are enjoying sex, yet you believe that it's just your mind that's not functioning well thus it creates that illusion of joy rather than it is a real orgasm?

CantoX said:
@ Phanto

The question is.. can you respect someone who believes in a religion that you do not respect?
Click to expand...
I was about to ask the very same question too lol
 
CantoX said:
The question is.. can you respect someone who believes in a religion that you do not respect?
Click to expand...

Damn good question, fella. I think you can respect the rights of another person of a different belief to believe what they do, but you may not necessarily respect the content of that person's beliefs. I respect a person's decision to believe in God, but I don't respect the belief itself. People obviously have beliefs for a reason, whether it be a feeling, upbringing, peer pressure or whatever. But the absence of any scientific argument, philosophical argument (cosmological, teleological, ontological) or primary evidence to support it leads me to see dogmatic religious belief as of less intrinsic value than atheism. The belief, not the person. Again, nothing is black and white - having said the above, can I respect the belief that another religion sees Jews as subhuman, or Muslims as servants of Satan? No I can't, and I would say that I certainly couldn't bring myself to respect a person ignorant enough to espouse such a viewpoint.
 
CantoX said:
@ Phanto

The question is.. can you respect someone who believes in a religion that you do not respect?
Click to expand...

I don't think I'd judge someone based solely on their religion. But then again I'm probably a stereotype, like most swedes except they wouldn't even say it with a gun to their heads, so it's hard to say. Could be because I come from a small town called Södertälje ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Södertälje ). Let's just say crime statistics in that town were interesting to say the least. And the immigrants are basically the only active religious people in Sweden, the rest are fucking heathens or something I guess. So with my background it's hard to "judge fairly", and so I tend not to do it. Can't really respect or not respect someone I haven't met or made up my mind about.

It's another situation in America I guess. I think mormons and shit like that you got there are on some level idiots. But they could still be nice people. That's the thing I guess, people aren't entirely shaped by their religious background. Unless they're fanatics, and no-one likes a fanatic do they? Maybe other fanatics. I don't know.

To answer the question... Yes I could if that person wasn't all about his/her religion. Definitely.

Fuck, okay, maybe not Jehova's Witnesses.
 
squidfetish said:
People obviously have beliefs for a reason, whether it be a feeling, upbringing, peer pressure or whatever. But the absence of any scientific argument, philosophical argument (cosmological, teleological, ontological) or primary evidence to support it leads me to see dogmatic religious belief as of less intrinsic value than atheism.
Click to expand...

Exactly, a lot of people believe because simply their parents do so.. and they don't even think about what they believe in... this is what pisses me off here...

I respect what people who have other view points, but respecting their beliefs?? I really don't know.. how can I respect the idea of justifying suicide bombing using a holy book (while it prevents it lol) ?? I can never do that... it didn't even respect humanity itself !
 
hexwind said:
Dude, do you use the same logic to interpret other things in life? For example, you are enjoying sex, yet you believe that it's just your mind that's not functioning well thus it creates that illusion of joy rather than it is a real orgasm?
Click to expand...

Sex and its utility can be completely explained by chemical reactions in the brain. The evidence is all there - just open up any biology textbook.

But yeah, I see your point.:lol:
 
CantoX said:
@ savage

Yeah a little on the edge there, but its cool. You've already set into your own mind that even if God or a god appeared before you, you still would not be convinced.. but isn't that one of the main reasons why people do not believe? Because they can't touch or feel or hear it or understand it?
Click to expand...

Well, it does have a lot to do with the whole touching, feeling and seeing is believing thing, but taken a little further.

Like for example, if you have ever had a dream so real and vivid you actually woke up terrified that whatever took place there, is going to be of consequence in your real life. While, in actuality, it was nothing more than the random, chaotic brain synapse firings in REM sleep - with your brain doing its best to give order, structure and meaning to it through the guise of a dream.

In a dream, you may have killed someone and it could scare the shit out of you. But the reality behind the whole event lies solely within the brain "malfunctioning."

A hunter could be used as a real world example. Imagine that a guy wants to go out in the woods and shoot a deer. He has to create an illusion in order to succeed. He dresses in camouflage, loads his gun and covers himself in "doe in heat" urine. A deer may come wandering by and pick up on the scent and think its another deer. It may also pick the residual scent of a human and maybe hear some rustling in the bushes that is not indicative of another deers' movement, but at that moment, the deers mind only has one thought: mating. In actuality, if the deer was just a little more receptive, it could have picked up on the other bits of evidence and ran instead of ending up on some guys dinner table.

Although, you could point to the fact that deers are a whole hell of a lot dumber than people, I think the analogy still holds.
 
CantoX said:
The question is.. can you respect someone who believes in a religion that you do not respect?
Click to expand...

I know this was directed at Phanto, but my answer is 9.99/10 times YES! They are people just like me who laugh at stuff and find stuff interesting. I honestly don't look down on anyone for what they believe, even if I find it weird. ALL of my friends are republican Christians and we get along great.
 
CantoX said:
For me, it goes up the more I learn about science, earth, the stars, the planets, and the universe. It just seems that everything has been made so perfect for us.. its just really really amazing if you sit down and think about it. This univerise, of which seems so perfect for us, can't just have "happened." Many great scientists also believe this as well.
Click to expand...

That's strange point of view to me. I see that majority of our own planet is either too hot, too cold, or covered in salt water. The environments we actually do live in are susceptible to damage from natural forces within and outside the atmosphere. It will take a incredible leap in technology just to move to the next planet let alone outside our solar system. More than 99% of the universe is uninhabitable. I just don't see the perfection in relation to us.
 
I don't believe in the pure biological approach to our mental frame. I also think 'psychology' is mostly bullshit.

And, I'll be buying the standard edition of the new PT. :lol:
 
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