Open Letter about file sharing to some chick at NPR

[smy1]

drew: I appreciate your view, but I really have a TINY following in comparison with most rock/metal bands of similar standing in their scenes. The EBM/Industrial scene in general is probably the tiniest and least commercially viable scene of all underground music scenes.

I purposely did not go the "endless touring through shitty clubs"-route, because I did not want to break my back and disillusion myself with too many 24 people shows in Bumfuck, Yorkshire. But since I am running my own label (for example I left my initial record label after the first two CDs and I have different backup band musicians depending on the size of the show and their "level of cooperation") I am in full control of everything: I record/produce/mix my stuff, design my CD covers, plan my own photoshoots, run all my music videos, do my behind-the-scenes videos, design my website, etc. etc. etc. - that way I keep a tight grip on costs, planning and image.

The difference to other bands who start out is that I really spend a lot of time educating myself, planning all this and making calculations, negotiating better deals, etc. I also fire a lot of people if they turn out to not work in my interests (I've left my 2nd concert booking agency half a year ago because of that) and I constantly question if I could do stuff better and if I can improve things. Right now I'm on a 90 day diet/workout schedule to get in better shape for fall shows in UK, Belgium, Scandinavia - if it wasn't for the project, I'd sit and eat pizza all day.

My point here is: piracy obviously is hurting the music industry, but the small bands aren't the ones mainly hurt by piracy. They are the ones hurt by shitty management, shitty songwriting, shitty image-considerations, shitty work-ethic and shitty ego-problems. Most bands don't understand that the music they make might be the best thing ever in their own head, but in reality no one except 30 people worldwide really cares. Most bands also blame the circumstances instead of blaming themselves. I can literally find 10 or 15 points to improve with almost every lower tier band (I include myself among that category). And probably 20-30 improvable points with local acts.

I could really say a lot of things but the fact of the matter is that if I can do all this (I'm not really very smart), most other people can too. They just choose not to and therefore have only themselves to blame.

EDIT: I'm starting a new music project soon - it'll be in a very, very different direction and it'll be interesting to see how that develops.

 

[dale_a_smith]

Current rotten state of music industry: $1000 gets me 100 albums at $10 each and artists i listen to get $100 (10% or $1 each).

I want to be able to pay directly to an artist so it should be: $1000 gets me 500 albums at $2 each and artists i listen to get $1000 (100% or $2 each).


Both musicians and their fans are getting robbed by record companies and all the middlemen.

Say what you like about Radiohead, but releasing "In Rainbows" themselves was a massive win for them. ( fans got to pay as much or as little for a download as they wanted )

I remember a DJ taking the piss because the average price paid for the album download on their website was about £2, but apart from the usual costs involved in producing an album, that all went straight to them.. which while still not much, is more than most bands make per album..

 

[smy1]

dale: any big band that can get out of their major label contract and start their own record company will win big because they start seeing 80% returns instead of 10%. This is coming on the back of the major label-financed fanbase though - and therefore can't compare to startup-bands who do not have a fanbase.

 

[dale_a_smith]

dale: any big band that can get out of their major label contract and start their own record company will win big because they start seeing 80% returns instead of 10%. This is coming on the back of the major label-financed fanbase though - and therefore can't compare to startup-bands who do not have a fanbase.

Yeah man. I understand that. Was just posting regarding Mutants comments.

 

[Ermz]

Definitely agree with Sami that a lot of the blame for the failing of many indie artists is to be laid at their own feet.

I think piracy does impact that tier of the industry though, because it effectively cuts off the artists' 'ladder'. We all know that labels are a lot more conservative with the deals that they offer, and bands no longer really have a shot to just 'play a ton of gigs then we'll get scouted, d00d'. The problem here in Oz is that the bands just don't have the ability to take that next step. Due to how remote the country is, it's already logistically prohibitive to do any decent tours, and due to the lack of any sizable metal labels, or strong music industry presence in general they have to cultivate offers from abroad. Those who stay independent end up with maybe a couple hundred or thousand fans, but stay under the radar in the mainstream.

As an aside though, I think when it comes to the obscurity of underground music scenes, it's very hard to match that of dark ambient acts like Kammarheit, Raison D'etre or Lustmord. Really really niche stuff. Ironically one of my favourite genres.

 

[smy1]

Ermz: I agree with your statement.

 

[SentencedToBurn]

My point here is: piracy obviously is hurting the music industry, but the small bands aren't the ones mainly hurt by piracy. They are the ones hurt by shitty management, shitty songwriting, shitty image-considerations, shitty work-ethic and shitty ego-problems. Most bands don't understand that the music they make might be the best thing ever in their own head, but in reality no one except 30 people worldwide really cares. Most bands also blame the circumstances instead of blaming themselves. I can literally find 10 or 15 points to improve with almost every lower tier band (I include myself among that category). And probably 20-30 improvable points with local acts.

I could really say a lot of things but the fact of the matter is that if I can do all this (I'm not really very smart), most other people can too. They just choose not to and therefore have only themselves to blame.

EDIT: I'm starting a new music project soon - it'll be in a very, very different direction and it'll be interesting to see how that develops.

this is a gross generalization and goes along with what wutzington said earlier. while i agree with you that there are A LOT of shitty bands out there, you can't say that the only reason a band doesnt make it is because of shitty musicianship and bad management. piracy IS hurting the industry. along with people not supporting bands and going to shows, etc.
and i dont think the quality of music has gone down. there is a ton of great music out there that wasnt out there 5 to 10 years ago. this past decade has released the best music of all time in my opinion.
so does everyone have bad management then?

 

[Brandon E.]

I agree with Sami on this one. And you see a lot of musicians using piracy as a scapegoat for all of their problems, and it's just usually not the case. Stop dwelling on it, be proactive and work around it. IT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE, I don't know why that is such a hard concept for some people to get into their heads.

 

[JeffTD]

I purposely did not go the "endless touring through shitty clubs"-route, because I did not want to break my back and disillusion myself with too many 24 people shows in Bumfuck, Yorkshire. But since I am running my own label (for example I left my initial record label after the first two CDs and I have different backup band musicians depending on the size of the show and their "level of cooperation") I am in full control of everything: I record/produce/mix my stuff, design my CD covers, plan my own photoshoots, run all my music videos, do my behind-the-scenes videos, design my website, etc. etc. etc. - that way I keep a tight grip on costs, planning and image.

The difference to other bands who start out is that I really spend a lot of time educating myself, planning all this and making calculations, negotiating better deals, etc. I also fire a lot of people if they turn out to not work in my interests (I've left my 2nd concert booking agency half a year ago because of that) and I constantly question if I could do stuff better and if I can improve things. Right now I'm on a 90 day diet/workout schedule to get in better shape for fall shows in UK, Belgium, Scandinavia - if it wasn't for the project, I'd sit and eat pizza all day.

Sami, you have this down to a science - have you ever considered consulting for other groups, or even going as far as managing?

 

[drew_drummer]

I agree with Sami on this one. And you see a lot of musicians using piracy as a scapegoat for all of their problems, and it's just usually not the case. Stop dwelling on it, be proactive and work around it. IT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE, I don't know why that is such a hard concept for some people to get into their heads.

I can say with 100% certainty that piracy has affected my band. I can also say with 100% certainty that here in London, there isn't much of a metal scene, not the kind we write anyway. It's either tight trousered indie-wank, or skull-and-cross bones generic wankfest metal.

And yeah, I think Sami has some good points, but I don't think the piracy thing should be discounted completely. None of this is causal. But there are definitely correlations between lack of audience, lack of profit, lack of good music, and piracy.

 

[Jordon]

Jordon: no offense, but maybe your band and all the shows you go to just don't appeal to people anymore? We went on a 13 show US tour this year (I'm from Germany), playing crowds between 50 and 650 people. We flew from city to city (cause we were only 3 guys) and I ended up making a bit over 6000 Euro (8500 US dollars) into my own pocket (this includes merch income) for a 3 week trip after all expenses (like $10000 flighttickets, $1500 workvisa, $1000 drugs/booze, etc.). My DJ and my TM made 1750/2000 dollar respectively on that 2,5 week trip. I sell an average of $600/month mp3s via Tunecore and have release peaks of $2500/month when a new album comes out (this does not include CD sales). In Europe I can pocket around 500-600 Euros (750 US$) per show for myself (not counting merch). If I didn't choose to have a well paying dayjob, I could live off of my music, but I'd rather reinvest in the project (videos etc.). I started this in 2006.

My projections for the 2013 US tour (where we'll use a bus instead of flying because I'll bring more musicians and more on-stage equipment) I estimate a tour budget of $35000-40000 with a possible net gain of between $1000-$10000 for me (depending on merch sales).

Maybe all those bands you know are just doing it wrong?

A lot of these are shows that 2-3 years ago would have (and did) sell out large clubs. It's easy to assume that the music didn't appeal or the shows didn't appeal, but these are bands who are very well respected in the hard rock community. It's something I witness from the local up to the national level. I hear nothing other than how difficult it is to be a professional musician from other bands.

If you can get that much money off of a tour, you'll be in the top few percent. Most tours these days, if they break even, did very well. That's the point that's been driven into my head over the past few years, anyway.

All in all, though, I really DO agree with a lot of what you've said. There are definitely ways for bands to go about touring and selling records and making money....If they break from the old model. Unfortunately, a lot of bands can't see the forest for the trees when a shitty contract is put on the table in front of them, and they get locked in. Their fault? Maybe, but it's still a fucked up situation.

 

[Uros]

skull-and-cross bones

piracy

I can deffo see some connection here. Yar har

 

[JeffTD]

A lot of these are shows that 2-3 years ago would have (and did) sell out large clubs. It's easy to assume that the music didn't appeal or the shows didn't appeal, but these are bands who are very well respected in the hard rock community. It's something I witness from the local up to the national level. I hear nothing other than how difficult it is to be a professional musician from other bands.

If you can get that much money off of a tour, you'll be in the top few percent. Most tours these days, if they break even, did very well. That's the point that's been driven into my head over the past few years, anyway.

Sorry, but all of this runs totally contrary to what I've learned and experienced with bands and touring. Breaking even ≠ doing well; touring is your salary, more or less.

2-3 years ago is pretty ancient when it comes to trends in a scene; I'd say it's incredibly likely that the music and shows don't appeal like they used to and that they aren't as well respected as you'd think.

This leads me to another point; your perspectives are likely to be skewed by bands that seem huge but are really just "fake big."

 

[egan.]

Current rotten state of music industry: $1000 gets me 100 albums at $10 each and artists i listen to get $100 (10% or $1 each).

I want to be able to pay directly to an artist so it should be: $1000 gets me 500 albums at $2 each and artists i listen to get $1000 (100% or $2 each).


Both musicians and their fans are getting robbed by record companies and all the middlemen.

Why do people insist on using the 10% number? It's neither universal nor particularly accurate. I've signed 3 record deals in my life and never had a rate that low (even as a negotiation starting point) plus you get publishing royalties. Also, lots of folks get much higher d/l rates than their CD rates. Add to that that when people buy CD's directly from bands the band gets their royalty and the store profit and it's just a different picture.

 

[Mutant]

Why do people insist on using the 10% number?

If i am wrong, educate me.
Can you link any sources with some strong statistics ?
Providing just one example from your own experiences is nice but says nothing about the whole picture.

 

[JeffTD]

If i am wrong, educate me.
Can you link any sources with some strong statistics ?
Providing just one example from your own experiences is nice but says nothing about the whole picture.

So three concrete examples from real-life music industry experience don't hold as much clout as your pulled-out-of-your-own-ass 10% figure? It's a nice figure but it says nothing about the whole picture and is covered in shit and lube.

 

[Mutant]

So three concrete examples from real-life music industry experience don't hold as much clout as your pulled-out-of-your-own-ass 10% figure? It's a nice figure but it says nothing about the whole picture and is covered in shit and lube.

I did my research few years ago, not recently because i am not so interested in the subject.
You seem to have trouble understanding "strong statistics" which require thousands of samples and averages.

Lets say i have a red car, my cousin has a cherry car and my uncle has a white truck.
Three concrete examples.
How much did it tell us ?
That an average car is a pink SUV ?

L O L Nope.

The reality is that most cars on streets in Poland are silver or gray sedans.


It is always so funny when someone talks about something and suddenly someone pops up and gives a single separated exception to the rule example and says "this makes what you said wrong" !

I asked for links because i would like to be proven wrong about that 10%.

 

[Proggm]

The thing is, I disagree with his assertion that it has to be the individual's choice to do the ethical and moral thing. That lends way too much faith to the human race, who by and large on the whole 'ethics' and 'morals' points fail dismally. If the continued existence of common laws and organized religion has anything to say, it's that we NEED morality to be instituted and enforced through fear.

Fear is ultimately the only true motivator when it comes to dealing with the general populace. Our countries' respective leaders all prey on ours to further their own agendas on a regular basis. We simply need to find a way to inject that fear back into online filesharing. Whether it's through being able to set up 'dummy' trackers, which keep records of each individual user who downloads illicitly-provided content, or through taking a step back and simply waging a war on these hundreds of illicit filesharing sites. We need to show that prosecution for theft of intellectual property has the same risk associated with it as the theft of physical property.

Wait, what?!

Finally, after seeing many centuries of "morality instituted and enforced through fear" growing to become tyrannies and dictatorships that have always ended in bloodshed, mankind (not all of it though) has slowly but progressively started to understand how those systems are bound to collapse simply due to the free spirit of men.

So - it's not whether piracty is a crime or not, it's about how far is the system willing to go to punish something like theft of intangible assets, and how would that system be regarding other problems. It's unnecessary to say that there are much, much more serious issues that require immediate attention in any country, and that deriving funds that could feed the mouths of starving people to "stop piracy" is simply an absurd idea, to say the least.

But that's the tip of the iceberg.

If you can severely punish piracy, you can severely punish using a song in some youtube video (not just lyric videos, but any video containing music) for illegal sharing. If you can inject fear into those that download something off the internet, you can inject fear into those that upload whatever the government thinks is "questionable content". The concept of "questionable content" would slowly start to be manipulated so that detractors of this policies have no say in any public social network, forum, etc (much like in China). I could go on... but you can see were I'm going with this. To quote one of my favourite movies: if you can do one, you can do the other. Because fascism and ignorance is forever busy, and needs feeding. And soon, with banners flying and with drums beating we'll be marching backward, BACKWARD, through the glorious ages of that Sixteenth Century when bigots burned the man who dared to think any different.

May sound exaggerated, but seeing how history has turned out, time and time again, I say be careful with that thought.

 

[AD Chaos]

^ +1

The author of the letter is spot on in that 'fairly compensating musicians is not a problem that is up to governments and large corporations to solve. It is not up to them to make it “convenient” so you don’t behave unethically.'

If anything, large corporations/governments will more likely than not seize on the opportunity to redirect more of whatever profit into their own pocket. That musicians willingly call for more strangling upon their own is unfortunate and ironic to say the least, but also quite understandable, especially from a purely AE/'middleman' POV.

In order to win the fight on ripped copyrIghted material, a new, more secure medium for music is needed..

There is and most likely will never be such a thing, so long as there is a digital world, since digital music is information (ones and zeros), and computer networks are just the same thing.

Jordon: no offense, but maybe your band and all the shows you go to just don't appeal to people anymore? We went on a 13 show US tour this year (I'm from Germany), playing crowds between 50 and 650 people. We flew from city to city (cause we were only 3 guys) and I ended up making a bit over 6000 Euro (8500 US dollars) into my own pocket (this includes merch income) for a 3 week trip after all expenses (like $10000 flighttickets, $1500 workvisa, $1000 drugs/booze, etc.). My DJ and my TM made 1750/2000 dollar respectively on that 2,5 week trip. I sell an average of $600/month mp3s via Tunecore and have release peaks of $2500/month when a new album comes out (this does not include CD sales). In Europe I can pocket around 500-600 Euros (750 US$) per show for myself (not counting merch). If I didn't choose to have a well paying dayjob, I could live off of my music, but I'd rather reinvest in the project (videos etc.). I started this in 2006.

My projections for the 2013 US tour (where we'll use a bus instead of flying because I'll bring more musicians and more on-stage equipment) I estimate a tour budget of $35000-40000 with a possible net gain of between $1000-$10000 for me (depending on merch sales).

Maybe all those bands you know are just doing it wrong?

drew: I appreciate your view, but I really have a TINY following in comparison with most rock/metal bands of similar standing in their scenes. The EBM/Industrial scene in general is probably the tiniest and least commercially viable scene of all underground music scenes.

I purposely did not go the "endless touring through shitty clubs"-route, because I did not want to break my back and disillusion myself with too many 24 people shows in Bumfuck, Yorkshire. But since I am running my own label (for example I left my initial record label after the first two CDs and I have different backup band musicians depending on the size of the show and their "level of cooperation") I am in full control of everything: I record/produce/mix my stuff, design my CD covers, plan my own photoshoots, run all my music videos, do my behind-the-scenes videos, design my website, etc. etc. etc. - that way I keep a tight grip on costs, planning and image.

The difference to other bands who start out is that I really spend a lot of time educating myself, planning all this and making calculations, negotiating better deals, etc. I also fire a lot of people if they turn out to not work in my interests (I've left my 2nd concert booking agency half a year ago because of that) and I constantly question if I could do stuff better and if I can improve things. Right now I'm on a 90 day diet/workout schedule to get in better shape for fall shows in UK, Belgium, Scandinavia - if it wasn't for the project, I'd sit and eat pizza all day.

My point here is: piracy obviously is hurting the music industry, but the small bands aren't the ones mainly hurt by piracy. They are the ones hurt by shitty management, shitty songwriting, shitty image-considerations, shitty work-ethic and shitty ego-problems. Most bands don't understand that the music they make might be the best thing ever in their own head, but in reality no one except 30 people worldwide really cares. Most bands also blame the circumstances instead of blaming themselves. I can literally find 10 or 15 points to improve with almost every lower tier band (I include myself among that category). And probably 20-30 improvable points with local acts.

I could really say a lot of things but the fact of the matter is that if I can do all this (I'm not really very smart), most other people can too. They just choose not to and therefore have only themselves to blame.

Easily, two of the best posts I've ever read in here

I agree with Sami on this one. And you see a lot of musicians using piracy as a scapegoat for ALL of their problems, and it's just usually not the case. Stop dwelling on it, be proactive and work around it. IT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE, I don't know why that is such a hard concept for some people to get into their heads.

I know right?

 

[JeffTD]

blah blah blah bobs for apples in the toilet and likes it

Look, you gave a 10% figure (without sourcing!). Someone who's actually signed a few contracts and doesn't just jerk off on internet forums all day long has come in and said that that figure is wildly inaccurate and far lower than anything he's seen. I don't give a shit about your condescending strong statistics lecture, since it doesn't apply to your outlier number.