Illegal downloading / file sharing / pirating...

[PyramazeGuitar]

Illegal downloading / file sharing / pirating...

Dear Pyra-fans,

I've noticed that a debate has been going on, about the never-ending
story of illegal downloading of albums that have been leaked to the internet.
I've read lots of different statements both from people who use this "service"
and people who don't. There are pros & cons about most of it, but the people
who claim that it's just good for the industry/bands are wrong.

It is true that the internet and the possibilities to download songs are an excellent tool to help promote bands. But there is a big difference between promotion chosen by the band and the unintended leaking of an entire album before the actual release date. Let me try to explain. There are true fans (like most of the people on the forum) who have chosen to download the album because they are super excited about finally hearing the new stuff. They have every intention of buying the actual album too once it comes out, and that's okay and i can certainly relate to that. However there are people (lots of people!!) who also dig the band, but who will NOT buy the album once it's been made available to them for free. Those are the people who hurt the industry and the bands, and believe me when i say we feel this first hand. The average cd price for a newer album is about 14 $$ if I'm not mistaken, depending on what country you live in of course. Now here's the "surprise" - the band only receives 1,5 $$ of that amount. So it takes a lot of sold albums before we even get close to recouping the expenses we've had with producing the stuff. A good studio today costs about 800 $$ per day. If you're really fast and well prepared (which we are) the studio part can be finished within 25 days. Now you do the math, and remember that we get only 1,5 $$ per sold album. Then now bring in the factor of the people who download the album for free and never buy it - well, see where I'm going with this....?

Now lets talk about the artistic side of it. We've been working our asses off for over a year to finish this record. We've put lots of money in the production of the booklet and artwork to present the material in a very tasty way, and then suddenly the album leaks to the net as crappy MP3 files, no booklet, not the intended music quality, not the whole package as we would like to present it to the masses for the first time. This hurts - and while i have nothing against fans who download the files and then buy the album afterwards, it still hurts to not be able to present the album as we've intended. I know that today this scenery is pretty much inevitable, but saying that this situation is good for the bands is not true. It might be good for very new bands who do not yet have a record contract and need that kind of exposure, but for serious bands who already have a name and have to pay big bills to produce a kickass album it just doesn't work.

Now i would say that Pyramaze has become a pretty big thing within the last couple of years. But do you think we would be able to make a living from the band if we chose to only focus on Pyramaze?? The answer is a big NO FUCKING WAY! If we did not have our jobs, we would be living in the gutter (or in a crappy tour buss) ;-) This scenario is mostly because of the pirating issue. If every person who was interested in Pyramaze would buy the album, then things would look a lot different both for the labels and the bands, but they don't and that's a fact. Bottom line is we do this for the love of our art and for our fans. But no matter what don't kid yourselves into thinking that illegal downloading and leaking of albums is good for the bands nor the industry.

Well - this was a long "speech" and i could go on, but let me just end this statement by saying that we truly appreciate our true fans - the fans who actually support us by buying the album. And to make myself perfectly clear, i have nothing against the fans who have downloaded the album already, as long as you remember that there is an actual real album coming out soon.

All my best,

Michael Kammeyer

 

[RedCriss]

Now lets talk about the artistic side of it. We've been working our asses off for over a year to finish this record. We've put lots of money in the production of the booklet and artwork to present the material in a very tasty way, and then suddenly the album leaks to the net as crappy MP3 files, no booklet, not the intended music quality, not the whole package as we would like to present it to the masses for the first time. This hurts - and while i have nothing against fans who download the files and then buy the album afterwards, it still hurts to not be able to present the album as we've intended. I

Thank you for your "speech" Michael!

And because of the quoted words I won't download anything off the new album. I'm so excited as I have never been before to hear a new album, but I want the WHOLE THING. I want to feel the cd in my hands, take out the booklet, see the artwork, read the lyrics and freak out as soon as "Arise" starts with volume fully cranked up.

I hardly can't wait until I actually can hear the whole album, but no way I will download more than you want to give us in advance. These samples are so awesome, both of your previous albums are amazing (not one weak song), so there's no reason why I should not trust in your work!

notworthy
PYRAMAZE RULE and always will!

 

[Iced Dog]

Well, as one of those fans who downloads AND buys albums, I appreciate the sentiment...and I definitely respect your position on the issue. I guess it's hard to quantify the numbers of those who dig the band yet don't buy...whatever percentage it is, they're a cryin' shame. All I can do is speak from my own experience, which is that the digital music revolution has enabled me to find all these tremendous bands like Pyramaze, and support them through sales and word of mouth (or word of keyboard most often ). But aside from that, melodic metal seems to be gaining more steam, which is a good sign...the talent, passion, and creativity seen in this genre is astounding, and increased recognition is so overdue.

 

[chrissie]

There's enough possibilities today to listen to an album before I buy it. I don't need to download it. It's unfair against the artists. They work very hard and have to pay their bills the same way as the fans.

 

[Ivan_dgo]

First of all, hi all.

As for the theme : illegal downloading and piracy is wrong, naturally.
You can say that it's not OK for someone to download illegal copies because they hurt the artist and the industry - that's fine too.
It would be great for all of us when we could buy stuff just like that, life would be juuust peachy, BUT we don't live in a fairytale.
Easy for you folks who live in countries with nice and good standards, where buying a CD is peanuts...well, you know what I mean..
Don't forget the other side of the medal - someone cannot afford buying original CD everytime you blast something on the market. Only option for those kind of people is to download stuff and to spend money on something they would benefit from(food for example..). You could say - "what the hell is this guy balbbling about??" - but I think it's kinda unfair to call those people who can't afford buying originals FAKE fans or similar.

 

[PyramazeGuitar]

- but I think it's kinda unfair to call those people who can't afford buying originals FAKE fans or similar.

Nobody called the downloaders fake fans. But the production of our album(s) is not charity work. If you don't have money for an actual album, fine then buy the single songs of I-tunes or similar once they are available legally on the net. I would say if someone can afford a computer to be online to rip the MP3's he or she would also be able to pay for at least that. And if a Pyra-fan is so poor that he can not afford even that - hell then I'll send that person a free album. But i need to see you living in a carton in the gutter with long greasy hair that hasn't been washed for 2 weeks before i believe that

 

[Ivan_dgo]

Nobody called the downloaders fake fans. But the production of our album(s) is not charity work. If you don't have money for an actual album, fine then buy the single songs of I-tunes or similar once they are available legally on the net. I would say if someone can afford a computer to be online to rip the MP3's he or she would also be able to pay for at least that. And if a Pyra-fan is so poor that he can not afford even that - hell then I'll send that person a free album. But i need to see you living in a carton in the gutter with long greasy hair that hasn't been washed for 2 weeks before i believe that

Well, I don't say that I'm poor (nor that I'm rich), just opposing those guys from posts above that are flaming everyone who is ripping MP3's.
Imagine this - for example, I have 100 albums on my PC from various artists, count the ammount of money I have to pay for them. In my country, that it 3-4 month's pays worth of money. Just for comparison, flat rate internet access in here is 3x cheaper than any original disc. To someone that kind of stuff is commodity, for someone else is presige.
Hope you get my point, I'm contra piracy, but that's the ONLY alternative for me right now.
Well, I like to talk much and give my opinion, don't start flaming me too

 

[PyramazeGuitar]

[QUOTEI'm contra piracy, but that's the ONLY alternative for me right now.
QUOTE]



So you are doing something that you don't approve of yourself....!?
Hmmmmm.... kind of a double moral don't you think....?
Anyways, this is part of the whole problem. You know it's illegal, you say you think it's wrong to do it, but yet you do it because you feel you have a good reason for doing so. Other people say exactly the same - maybe their reason is not the lack of money, but they just think an album is overprized, or hard to get or whatever. And here's where the problem-ball is already rolling. See my point?

 

[Ivan_dgo]

[QUOTEI'm contra piracy, but that's the ONLY alternative for me right now.
QUOTE]



So you are doing something that you don't approve of yourself....!?
Hmmmmm.... kind of a double moral don't you think....?
Anyways, this is part of the whole problem. You know it's illegal, you say you think it's wrong to do it, but yet you do it because you feel you have a good reason for doing so. Other people say exactly the same - maybe their reason is not the lack of money, but they just think an album is overprized, or hard to get or whatever. And here's where the problem-ball is already rolling. See my point?

Hmm, I see your point...maybe I'm thinking for myself - what will change if I don't download, will it make any difference? Heh, kidding...
Normally, I would buy originals and try to see you on a live show, but, as for most of people, the problem is MONEY, and i don't think that you'll be touring in Croatia very soon, right?
I could only say, to defend my justifications is that I get most of the music I have when someone copies it for me, burns it etc.

 

[Johnny Z.]

I ALWAYS GIVE MY TOTAL SUPPORT TO ALL BANDS I LIKE!!!
DO THE SAME, FUCKERS!!!
If I tell you that I don't download I'm a liar, but I ALWAYS buy original stuff!! ALWAYS!!
I have more than 10.000 cds and 2000 dvds here!!
I'M A ORIGINAL STUFF LOVER!
I can't wait to buy all Pyramaze's new album versions!!!
The band, Michael and all guys deserve our respect!

 

[MeKaChrOme]

We've put lots of money in the production of the booklet and artwork to present the material in a very tasty way, and then suddenly the album leaks to the net as crappy MP3 files, no booklet, not the intended music quality, not the whole package as we would like to present it to the masses for the first time.

Howdy! I support your sentiments for the most part, but just on the above - it may be me nitpicking... But it can be really difficult for a lot of people to tell the difference between the mp3s and the final CD... Through mp3 players, and through small sound systems unfortunately this happens... For example, to my ears the difference beween the CDs and the mp3s through my stereo is negligible. Now if the mp3s were really crap quality, people would have no choice but to purchase the real thing

Anyway, glad to hear you've put effort into the booklet and presentation - if artists and labels actually gave people a good package (not just good music), it gives people who are borderline on buying an album more reason to purchase it.

I shall be buying a copy of this album when it hits Australia, I think you guys have done a fine job, at least on the music side of things!

 

[The Wicked One]

CD quality > Mp3 always

Micheal I for one enjoy holding the cd in my hands.

But I do collect MP3's. Though i can assure you other than what i ultimately buy on cd, the rest is out of print or never released on CD. aka Demo Tapes of obscure unsigned bands from the 80's.

I hope you still don't think less of me or other REAL Pyramaze fans who do something similar to what i do.

keep kicking ass

 

[symphonyXjapan]

I think the main problem is that record companies (not saying all, but most) take too much of the CD sale profits. It has already been stated here that bands only make a few bucks profit per CD sold; likewise, if everyone who downloads an album and likes it were to actually buy the CD it would still not make the band very much money at all. Unfortunately, there is not a band/musician/pop group of any sort that really makes even decent money off of album sales. For example, even a huge globally known act such as Nsync doesn't make a whopping off of CD sales. Money is made off of touring and merchandise sales as these things are usually profited directly to the artists. This is a sad problem in Pyramaze's case as they are split up in different parts of the world, have day jobs, and don't tour or play live shows. Basically, most bands make money by roughing it out on the road; thus, it is hard for bands like Pyramaze to make a good buck until they get a label that will put money into allowing them to tour.

I hope what I said doesn't sound like I am being harsh. I am not backing up people who download and never buy in the least. I am just pointing out reality, which seems to show that even those who download and not buy can help a band make money in that they are people who will pay to see live shows and obtain merchandise; which are all things that bands make their REAL money off of anyway. Hopefully this band will find a way to be able to make better money off of their music in the future. I bought both Pyramaze album about the same times that they were first released; however, I don't order CD's online anymore because I always spend too much money that way hehe. I hope in the future Pyramaze albums and other lesser known band will be purchasable in national retail music stores as I feel that is another big reason why some bands' CD sales suffer like they do.

 

[pyramazekeyboardist]

If someone can afford to buy a computer then they can afford to buy a cd.

 

[Iced Dog]

I think the main problem is that record companies (not saying all, but most) take too much of the CD sale profits.

That's an excellent point...as Michael was saying, the band might get $1.50 off a $14 CD, that's WAY too low. That basically respresents a fundamental flaw in the whole system of band-label-retailer economics. The band creates the music, therefore they should make the lion's share of the profit...greedy record companies are also at fault here when it comes to the state of the music industry...they've already been busted for price fixing, and more investigations are pending...see this article.

 

[yuffi]

14$$ = 3 hours of work for me. And that's a fair price. I would work 5 ore more hours for stuff like this.

 

[Ivan_dgo]

If someone can afford to buy a computer then they can afford to buy a cd.

Touché..

 

[BurntOfferings666]

Well, as one of those fans who downloads AND buys albums, I appreciate the sentiment...and I definitely respect your position on the issue. I guess it's hard to quantify the numbers of those who dig the band yet don't buy...whatever percentage it is, they're a cryin' shame. All I can do is speak from my own experience, which is that the digital music revolution has enabled me to find all these tremendous bands like Pyramaze, and support them through sales and word of mouth (or word of keyboard most often ). But aside from that, melodic metal seems to be gaining more steam, which is a good sign...the talent, passion, and creativity seen in this genre is astounding, and increased recognition is so overdue.

Looks like Iced Dog and I are on the same page on this one. It IS hard to quantify the number of those who dig the band but don't legally purchase the album/songs/mp3s etc. The digital music revolution has also done wonders for me in terms of finding new bands and new friends, and support them by spreading word, purchasing albums and merch and even assisting them with booking gigs. Everyone should respect the bands that they listen to, and recognize their (the bands) need to make a living, just like you, me and the guy who lives next door. Bands are not faceless people in all this, they are victims of immoral, illogical people committing acts with dire consequences. If only there was a way to separate out the fans who download AND purchase albums from the ones who only download them.... With more and more legislation being written and passed on almost a daily basis, it is only a matter of time before a good majority of the major p2p and torrent sites get shut down. We all know what happened with Demonoid (another site hosting copies of Immortal), being shut down, moving their server to Canada, shut down again and then being forced to move their servers across the Atlantic to avoid legal action being taken by the US legal system.

However, there is a positive note in the digital music revolution that has been speculated about. The possibility of bands producing and selling albums themselves, free of labels, distributors and retailers. This would greatly reduce the costs of making/selling an album, while upping the profit that the band makes from each album sale. 1.4 billion people were online in 2007 and with the help of the internet bands have the ability to reach more people directly then ever before. Myspace, Facebook, forums, message boards - the possibilities are endless.

For those of you who may still not grasp the concept, I'll try and explain it like this. I am a chef by profession. In the culinary world we have movement called Slow Food that was started in the early 1980's in Italy in attempt to get people eating like they use to do. No more fast food. No more buying tomatoes from California (for example) when you can grow them just as good (if not better) locally. Now I as a chef, want to support the local economy and the local producers and farmers who are growing the same products that I could get through my food wholesaler. I am much happier to be able to go to farmer Joe's and ask him to supply me with 50lbs of carrots, potatoes, chickens, pork - whatever - a week, and pay a little more for their effort and product. In the end the farmers make more money, I make money for providing great food and the farmers are happy because I'm using their product and paying them more then they'd get from a wholesalers who would purchase in bulk at a reduced cost.

The music labels and distributors are the "wholesalers" in my little comparison, while the bands are the farmers and me and the rest of the fans are the Chefs. Its a reciprocal relationship that is a great great thing, but people need to be educated on it and understand the benefits before any steps can be taken to make this possibility a reality.

EDIT: Just one other thing, I would MUCH, MUCH rather purchase an album DIRECTLY from the band, then through a store (physical, or online), record label, distributor or wholesaler.

 

[BurntOfferings666]

I ALWAYS GIVE MY TOTAL SUPPORT TO ALL BANDS I LIKE!!!
DO THE SAME, FUCKERS!!!
If I tell you that I don't download I'm a liar, but I ALWAYS buy original stuff!! ALWAYS!!
I have more than 10.000 cds and 2000 dvds here!!
I'M A ORIGINAL STUFF LOVER!
I can't wait to buy all Pyramaze's new album versions!!!
The band, Michael and all guys deserve our respect!

I can back Johnny on what he says. Me and him go WAY back, and he may be the craziest (legit) fan I've ever know! Have you guys seen his Iced Earth collection???hypno:

 

[NM 156]

If someone can afford to buy a computer then they can afford to buy a cd.

Hell yeah...If someone can afford monthly internet access then they can afford to buy a cd or at least a .99¢ download.

That's my 2¢...