Illegal downloading / file sharing / pirating...

[Ivan_dgo]

I can back Johnny on what he says. Me and him go WAY back, and he may be the craziest (legit) fan I've ever know! Have you guys seen his Iced Earth collection???hypno:

Yeh, he is some rich kid (or man, whatever), so he CAN FUCKING AFFORD IT TO BUY OVER 10000 ORIGINAL CD's!!! C'mon, be realistic!
For example, driving school costs sums about 50 bucks, correct? In my country, price goes up to 1500 dollars - get the difference!?
If you wanna talk about Europe (and I mean on countries most of you come from - Germany, Norway, Finland, blah-blah), standards are X times greater, surely you can afford that stuff. What is normal salary in your coutry? Here is about 600-700 €, and I don't say that it doesn't provide decent living, but prices of foreign merchandise (like CD's in stores) stays the same.
I saw yuffi said he works 3 hours to buy it. Well, I work 2 days for that money, and I would rather spend it to eat something.

 

[RedCriss]

Well, I think the internet is a great way for bands to get known, put samples or whole songs on myspace etc, but why the hell should anyone be able to download a whole album for free? Isn't it enough to listen to SOME songs, maybe even having the chance to download them (like on Pyramaze's website)? If a band attracts your attention, you can check out every album at your record-store and buy it if you like it and can afford it.

Think about it another way: if you see some clothes/shoes/... you want to have and you can't afford them, would you steal them? Or if you want to fly to the Bahamas on vacation and cannot afford it, what do you do?

I like discovering new songs via myspace, browse the websites of the bands and I appreciate it, if I can download something to listen to. I also don't have enough money to buy 10,000 cd's so I only buy a few cd's of bands that I REALLY like! You also could download specific songs on itunes or wherever but why should it be ok to get whole albums without paying anything?

EDIT: I also think that cd's are way too expensive, but that doesn't justify illegal downloading...

 

[muzmaze]

WTF PEOPLE!
Either support the band or shut the fuck up!
Mike has even offered to workout a deal to provide a free cd in a given circumstance...if it meant avoiding an illegal download in which he explained has an end result affect on the band. Don't take things for granted in this pirate music age we live in!

I have long purchased every bit of music I have owned and now as a successful working / family man who has seen and supported bands new and old, and being at a point now in life like many who struggle with economy, gas prices, and things in general, I know its not easy to purchase anything, try raising a family...my family that I cherish more than anything!

That being said, I would find some GODDAMN WAY to purchase a Pyramaze cd even if it meant paying 50.00$ for it. I guess I have narrowed my musical selections to a few bands that I appreciate and believe deserve some honest support. Use the internet to search and narrow your tastes... weed out the crap music and support the good stuff, LIKE A WORKING MANS BAND IN PYRAMAZE WHO DESERVE IT!

 

[yuffi]

I saw yuffi said he works 3 hours to buy it. Well, I work 2 days for that money, and I would rather spend it to eat something.

WTF? How on earth can you afford Internet? I pay 20 € / month for it, which would make 31,15$$.

See here...

SO YOU WOULD WORK MORE THAN 4 DAYS FOR THAT? Hell no! :zombie:

Or is Internet x-times cheaper in your country?

 

[dew]

Wait. You only make 1.50 per CD sold? Is that correct?

I'll tell you what. Yes, I pirated your album and listened to it once. No, I didn't like it enough to buy it. But if you're THAT bad off, I'll throw you 5 bucks through paypal and you'll be better off for it.

 

[Ivan_dgo]

WTF? How on earth can you afford Internet? I pay 20 € / month for it, which would make 31,15$$.

See here...

SO YOU WOULD WORK MORE THAN 4 DAYS FOR THAT? Hell no! :zombie:

Or is Internet x-times cheaper in your country?

Internet here is 10 €/month, flat rate...yes, it's cheap with this new internet provider, with other (T-com) it's 20 €, but payings per hour in here is cca 2 €. I'm on college, so I cannot get better-paid job. Maybe later, when i get full-time, real job, I would be able to afford some stuff that now I cannot.

 

[MetalHanzo]

The problem with this debate is,there's no way in telling who does what,there's no honor system or what have you.
This debate will last till Ragnarok for all i know,but the sad fact is that most people do download albums for whatever reasons,even "loyal" fans.
A good example for that would have to be the whole Napster vs. Metallica scenario.
I for one am one of those who actually like to get his hands on the real deal and i'm all for bands who let you listen to a good half of their tracks before release.

 

[The Wicked One]

Wait. You only make 1.50 per CD sold? Is that correct?

I'll tell you what. Yes, I pirated your album and listened to it once. No, I didn't like it enough to buy it. But if you're THAT bad off, I'll throw you 5 bucks through paypal and you'll be better off for it.

I hope you are joking.
if not thanks for joining the list of scum and bad music taste. Get the hell out of here if you don't like the music, fucking cunt.

 

[Metalmilitia2000]

I agree with both sides of the argument here, I think I share my opinion most with IcedDog, BurntOfferings and Michael. I download, I download a lot. If it is something that I truely enjoy and will listen to for months/years to come, I do everything in my power to buy it. Hell, perfect example:

My roommate has a good bit of the Morgana Lefay discography. He actually owns the cds. I had only a couple, so I ripped all of his that I didn't have and downloaded the rest. I was floored by it. I loved this band. So, at progpower last year, one of the vendors had every cd that Lefay had ever put out. I dropped around 100 bucks and bought every one of them.

What I am getting at here, is I am one of the rare fans that download but give a damn about the bands as well. Im not saying that I am perfect, I am not saying that I buy everything that I download. But if I do enjoy it, and see myself listening to it a lot, then I always ask myself this question. I ask myself, the enjoyment that I am getting out of this album, is it worth the money I would have to pay for it if I were to purchase it online or at a store? If I listen to the album on a regular basis, and am enjoying it, then 9 times out of 10, that answer is yes and I buy it. But I also agree with the mentality that I would always rather buy a cd at a concert or on a bands website so that the band gets the money from me and not my money going through the food chain until it eventually gets down to the band. The band should be the first to be paid for their work. Granted, cds are expensive, but think about it... a lot goes into that 14-15 bucks. First of all, the band gets their piece. The record label gets theirs. The distribution company gets theirs, artwork has to be paid for and printed, jewel cases purchased, physical discs made, shipping to stores, markup by the stores to make their money, etc... It is a grueling and "dog eat dog" business, but that's life.

If on the other side of the coin, I don't decide to buy the disc, it could be because of a few things.

A.) I only liked 1-2 songs on it, and didn't feel the disc was worth the price for those couple of songs.
B.) Couldn't find the disc anywhere for a reasonable price with shipping (especially on imports only) (this is rare that this happens though)
C.) The disc hasn't "caught me yet".
D.) Probably the funniest one, I own something by the band that is complete crap (physically own) and this one is payback for the one that I bought that was shit. As I will probably download the new mMetallica album and they won't get a fucking dime for it because I was one of the idiots that bought St. Anger and have been wanting my 15 bucks back ever since.

Did I download the new Pyramaze album? Hell yea. Will I be buying it when it comes out? You had better goddamn believe it. It is incredible and I have been a long time Pyramaze fan. (Hell I better be, I help moderate this board...) Plus, I don't want Jonah to kick my ass the next time I see him...

I think that a few of you have a good grasping of what the world of downloading SHOULD be used for, but many more do not. And then the few that think it is entirely and utterly wrong, well, those people are fucking morons. Had it not been for downloading, I would not have found out about a lot of bands that I listen to that I have since went and purchased those albums.

Brent

 

[0bsolum]

Wait. You only make 1.50 per CD sold? Is that correct?

I'll tell you what. Yes, I pirated your album and listened to it once. No, I didn't like it enough to buy it. But if you're THAT bad off, I'll throw you 5 bucks through paypal and you'll be better off for it.

Hahaha, that's fuckin' classic! And sadly true as wel. If you paid the band 5 bucks for downloading the album, they'd have made more off that than if you would have bought the album!

I hope you are joking.
if not thanks for joining the list of scum and bad music taste. Get the hell out of here if you don't like the music, fucking cunt.

What, if someone doesn't like the new album they have bad music taste? Grow up. This may surprise you but not everyone here likes everything anyone in Pyramaze ever does. At least the guy's honest. He downloaded the album to check it out, didn't like it and so won't be buying it. It happens.

Respect, dew.

 

[The Wicked One]

Baaaahahaha, that's fuckin' classic! And it kind of makes sens, too. If you paid the band 5 bucks for downloading the album, they'd have made more off that than if you would have bought the album!


What, if someone doesn't like the new album they have bad music taste? Grow the fuck up. This may surprise you but not everyone is a goddamn fanboy who worships every fart that comes out of someone's ass. At least the guy's honest. He downloaded the album to check it out, didn't like it and so won't be buying it. It happens.

Respect, dew.

i don't have respect for ppl who download without the intention of buying later. thats all. it pissed me off a bit, i guess i said something out line. Sorry.

Call me a fanboy but usually forums like these are for the fans.
Put that all together i came to the conclusion he was just being an asshole. And you are getting out of line yourself.

 

[0bsolum]

i don't have respect for ppl who download without the intention of buying later.

See, that's exactly why many people download albums first. To see if the cd is worth buying. So they don't waste their money on something they won't like.

Call me a fanboy but usually forums like these are for the fans.

Who said he isn't a fan? Maybe he bought Melancholy Beast and Bonecarver? Maybe he was looking forward to this album for a long time? So he doesn't like the new album, that doesn't mean he isn't a fan anymore, or that he doesn't like the band anymore.

Put that all together i came to the conclusion he was just being an asshole.

He was just being honest, as I see it. Takes balls too, on a forum that has as many fanboys on it as this one. Not naming any names here but man, it's really the truth.

And you are getting out of line yourself.

Maybe I was, too. I got a bit worked up myself. My apologies. You'll notice that I edited my post in the meantime to soften it up a bit, probably while you were typing your reply.

 

[The Wicked One]

first off i find it hard to believe that samples are not good enough to figure out if you want an album. I just picked it up to help pass the time until i have the real 1 in my hands. thats just me i guess.
Basically i was using my own reasoning and apparently missed the target.

Its just there are too many ppl who will download and not buy, and keep the music on there. For me its a moral issue. If you bother to keep it on your computer might as well help the band and mostly the record company (half the timeuke.

I probably wouldn't have said what i said if he put more in his post. Just me jumping the gun.

 

[BurntOfferings666]

I agree with both sides of the argument here, I think I share my opinion most with IcedDog, BurntOfferings and Michael. I download, I download a lot. If it is something that I truely enjoy and will listen to for months/years to come, I do everything in my power to buy it. Hell, perfect example:

My roommate has a good bit of the Morgana Lefay discography. He actually owns the cds. I had only a couple, so I ripped all of his that I didn't have and downloaded the rest. I was floored by it. I loved this band. So, at progpower last year, one of the vendors had every cd that Lefay had ever put out. I dropped around 100 bucks and bought every one of them.

What I am getting at here, is I am one of the rare fans that download but give a damn about the bands as well. Im not saying that I am perfect, I am not saying that I buy everything that I download. But if I do enjoy it, and see myself listening to it a lot, then I always ask myself this question. I ask myself, the enjoyment that I am getting out of this album, is it worth the money I would have to pay for it if I were to purchase it online or at a store? If I listen to the album on a regular basis, and am enjoying it, then 9 times out of 10, that answer is yes and I buy it. But I also agree with the mentality that I would always rather buy a cd at a concert or on a bands website so that the band gets the money from me and not my money going through the food chain until it eventually gets down to the band. The band should be the first to be paid for their work. Granted, cds are expensive, but think about it... a lot goes into that 14-15 bucks. First of all, the band gets their piece. The record label gets theirs. The distribution company gets theirs, artwork has to be paid for and printed, jewel cases purchased, physical discs made, shipping to stores, markup by the stores to make their money, etc... It is a grueling and "dog eat dog" business, but that's life.

If on the other side of the coin, I don't decide to buy the disc, it could be because of a few things.

A.) I only liked 1-2 songs on it, and didn't feel the disc was worth the price for those couple of songs.
B.) Couldn't find the disc anywhere for a reasonable price with shipping (especially on imports only) (this is rare that this happens though)
C.) The disc hasn't "caught me yet".
D.) Probably the funniest one, I own something by the band that is complete crap (physically own) and this one is payback for the one that I bought that was shit. As I will probably download the new mMetallica album and they won't get a fucking dime for it because I was one of the idiots that bought St. Anger and have been wanting my 15 bucks back ever since.

Did I download the new Pyramaze album? Hell yea. Will I be buying it when it comes out? You had better goddamn believe it. It is incredible and I have been a long time Pyramaze fan. (Hell I better be, I help moderate this board...) Plus, I don't want Jonah to kick my ass the next time I see him...

I think that a few of you have a good grasping of what the world of downloading SHOULD be used for, but many more do not. And then the few that think it is entirely and utterly wrong, well, those people are fucking morons. Had it not been for downloading, I would not have found out about a lot of bands that I listen to that I have since went and purchased those albums.

Brent

Holy shit Brent I wish I could hug you (not in a gay way of course). This is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say in all these legal vs illegal downloading debates! Thank you!rock:

 

[Metalmilitia2000]

Holy shit Brent I wish I could hug you (not in a gay way of course). This is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say in all these legal vs illegal downloading debates! Thank you!rock:

Yea, I typed that and all of a sudden I woke up like I was overcome by some supreme being with a rational way of thinking about downloading... it was awkward to say the least... hahhahahaha

Brent

 

[korruption]

I agree with the "payback" part, next time Metallica releases an album there should be a written note apologizing for shitting in our ears with St. Garbage Cans and a check for $20 US included... And I don't know why the fuck I'm talking about such a band in here but anyhoo.

I think Matt's addition for this album will definately increase record sales dramatically and obviously increase interest in later works of the band, it sure as hell caught many an Iced Earth fan's attention (I didn't join the forum until hearing the news myself ). The freeloaders will come and go but I'm sure if the band put a "Donate" button up on the site, a lot of the fans who feel they deserve more will be happy to help out. No guarantee of course but worth a shot.

 

[Johnny Z.]

Yeh, he is some rich kid (or man, whatever), so he CAN FUCKING AFFORD IT TO BUY OVER 10000 ORIGINAL CD's!!! C'mon, be realistic!
For example, driving school costs sums about 50 bucks, correct? In my country, price goes up to 1500 dollars - get the difference!?
If you wanna talk about Europe (and I mean on countries most of you come from - Germany, Norway, Finland, blah-blah), standards are X times greater, surely you can afford that stuff. What is normal salary in your coutry? Here is about 600-700 €, and I don't say that it doesn't provide decent living, but prices of foreign merchandise (like CD's in stores) stays the same.
I saw yuffi said he works 3 hours to buy it. Well, I work 2 days for that money, and I would rather spend it to eat something.

I just work and really have more than 10000 cds and 2000 dvds.
If you don't believe it, i can't do nothing... If you should see my room here you'll believe it.
Sorry for you.

 

[Caduceus Follower]

I think that it's ok to download 1 or 2 songs illegaly to see if you like the music...downloading whole albums (and not buying them) is a different thing.
On the other hand it's somewhat understandable for young kids/students who can't afford it. But it's still wrong of course.
The only artists which I don't mind getting downloaded are the ones with million-dollar mansions. And/or the ones that keep blowing their money on cocaine to go crazy, shave their heads and hold their babies from the balcony and shit.

 

[Olddoggie]

Mmmm...downloading in an illegal manner, always been a good subject for a debate/rant

For me it al comes down to this: choices.
If you have money you can choose to buy something or not. If you haven't got the money you don't have that choice. The only thing that you can do then is STEAL what you want to have. I'm sorry but in most countries STEALING gets you in jail...

Now, i can see the point that downloading prior to buying helps you decide to choose if you want to buy or not. But if you don't like it or think the music isn't worth buying, then you HAVE to delete the stuff from your pc...otherwise you are fooling everybody, including yourself...and that's damn pittyful.

If you do like the music, buy it...it's the only way you can help assure that the band will be able to make another kickass album in the future. Even if you don't really like this album, but you do like Pyramaze...still buy the album: the next album will probably be better The latter counts for me, i downloaded AND pre-ordered Immortal at the same time. I don't like this album as much as the previous 2 (For me Lance still is a far better singer than Matt)...still i bought the album because i'm convinced that in the future Pyramaze will make some amazing stuff again and i will support them in trying to do this...

Olddoggie

 

[General Zod]

If I was an artist, I would stop sending out promotional CDs. The entire concept of sending out CDs for review, months prior to a release, is based on an antiquated promotional model. A band putting one high quality MP3 file on their MySpace page is ten times more effective than a thousand webzine reviews. Antiquated promotional models aside, 99% of all leaks emanate from promos. It just seems like a no-brainer.

Zod