Opeth- New musical direction needed?

[Justin S.]

My apologies for any redundancy...

Is it time again for another break in the muscial direction of the band such as Morningrise -> MAYH?

Since MAYH, they have done a great job of refining and exploring their current style. With Deliverance, as ive noted in another thread devoted to it, this trademark sound has run its course, and i think its time for a shakeup. The formula of octave chord driven death metal puncuated by 1 minute segments of acoustic/clean vocals is becoming too perdictable for a "progressive" band.

One of my biggest questions concerns vocals; how much left is there to explore with the death vox? While i think it should remain a component of their sound, perhaps it is time that it took a secondary role, and was not the primary vocal method. With the latest Ayreon release, i was blown away by Mike's clean and especially his harsh vocals- precisely because they were used more sparingly. Used as brutal accents, the death vocals gain a new intensity and freshness. I also was impressed by the variation in tone and voicing of the death vocals- it was a sign that there is still room for creativity.

I would love to see the band really push the progressive-metal boundry like they once did; in my mind the death vox must become more varied and rare to prevent over saturation and desensitization (i shouldnt get "acclimated" to it- it is a man roaring and screaming after all) and the somewhat stagnant composition must evolve past what it became in Deliverance (no more banging out a riff for 5 minutes).

Your thoughts?

 

[Agalloch]

While it's not NECESSARY, I agree that a drastic change at this point would be good.

 

[Ermz]

Opeth seem to play out a certain style in album pairs. Orchid and Morningrise had a distinct sound. MAYH and Still Life were the stepping stone into a distinctly more 'mature' sound, serving as overtures to the sound that was developed during BWP and Deliverance.

I'm very happy with the change from Orchid & Morn to MAYH and SL. I'm *not* happy from SL to BWP, and more recently from BWP to Deliverance. So yes, I agree with you, I think Opeth have worn out this style which has become ever more standardised and stagnant since MAYH. Deliverance is pretty much the paramount - the end destination of where it all led to. The stripping of all the finer intricacies of the music and a greater focus on song structure as opposed to song quality.

As I've said before though, I'd cut them some slack since Deliverance was virtually written and recorded on the 'spur of the moment'. In that sense, as I've also said before, I think the next release will be the defining moment for the rest of Opeth's career. Will they continue to trudge down this path of musical regression, or will we see something completely 'different', which is so characteristic of true 'progressive' bands, and Opeth in particular?

 

[FUBAR]

I think they should go ultra proggy, maybe use a lot of pianos, keyboards or whatever but considering they've got Per now they might aswell use him.

 

[Justin S.]

Moonlapse, you and I (and a fair amount of others as well) are very much in agreement on the broader developments of the band; I knew this much from reading your posts this last year or two. (took me a while to join, i know)
I was more intereseted in seeing if you, or anyone else (especially the old timers, and musicians) would like to comment on the specifics of the Opeth sound, such as my comments about vocals. To me, Opeth has always hinted at great vocals, but more often than not, is simply teasing.
I am curious to see how many fans would welcome a radical shift in direction, and a loss of emphasis on the death vocals and "metal" sound (palm muted chugging, octave "chords", trademark dissonance etc) in general.

 

[[KOTNO]Narrot]

I agree that opeth should explore new ways. i am not sure about the vocal issue tho; while i always loved the death-vox i am not sure if the clean parts are 'necessary', meaning that there are times where i'd like to hear more 'space' for the instruments.
It would be great if they added some jazzy parts (there were a few on still life).
I think they'll get some new impulses by per but all in all i wouldn't mind another album in the vein of deliverance...

 

[Ermz]

Hmm, it's hard to say. This is definately the area where everything glosses over with that familiar subjective fuzz. Personally, I've lately been getting into alot of 'ambient' music where the aim is to increase the impact of the soundworld created by the track and enhance the psychoacoustic effects. Getting more into music production as of late, I'm more interested in how one single sound, or two sounds of seperate intervals of varying degrees, provided they are engineered to sound right, can make you feel alot more sombre than an onslaught of mellow acoustics and weeping vocal parts.

I would love to see Opeth learn from Steve Wilson in the sense that they can, with their newly acquired keyboarder/DJ (yo, yo), increase the aesthetic impact of the music in a way that they were unable to in the past.

I agree with you in the sense that if these 'metal' elements are used more sparingly, their impact becomes more pronounced. The issue with Deliverance was that it was just chugging riff after chugging riff... dissonance after dissonance... it desensitizes you to pretty much everything that's going on. By the time that mandatory acoustic interlude comes along you're essentially braindead and just thinking 'yuhh-uhh' and the song just sort of fades to a close without any significant emotional impact.

That to me is the great hurdle. The psychological impacts of auditory elements created by all manner of tools/instruments can be great indeed. I think Opeth has come to a mastery of their instruments, and the ability to craft a fine piece of music. Now I think is the time to focus on the aesthetic sound, the layers, and general 'depth' of the recordings.

To go back to that point made by you previously, yes I certainly think they should become more sparing with the heavy elements. The impact becomes much greater when the dynamic range has greater variances. Their now-cliched heavy/soft contrast has lost its punch over time, and they need to find new ways to breathe life into it.

 

[Ermz]

Welcome to the posting side of the board, by the way.

 

[Don Corleone]

well we all know there's gonna be gregorian chants, which i personally hate, on the next album. but im sure mikael will make them fit well. like maiden did on the x factor album.

now thats something fresh for ya

 

[Jinn]

They need to backtrack and stick to the MAYH vein...

 

[Don Corleone]

no! the SL vein! after turning up the bass volume, though

 

[Justin S.]

Welcome to the posting side of the board, by the way.

Thanks for the welcome. Ive posted sporadically over the last few months; you may recall our discussion in the most recent "riff thread". We touched upon a similar theme both times. In that thread i had briefly mentioned my interest in the effects of sound on the brain, and interestingly enough, you brought it up here as well. Its nice to see someone has a similar vision, or at least like-minded interest in music in general, and all that that implies. Id like more of that information/discussion to pop up on the board. Polls are fun and all, but how humans interpret sound and the meaning it has for us a emotional creatures is where the real "meat" is.
Getting back to Opeth, you summarize nicely what i was getting at:

I think Opeth has come to a mastery of their instruments, and the ability to craft a fine piece of music. Now I think is the time to focus on the aesthetic sound, the layers, and general 'depth' of the recordings.

The complexity of sound and depth is what is missing from the latest Opeth, and music in general. People often misunderstand the context of that word. By "complex" i dont necessarily mean how many notes you can cram in a given meter (ie "wankery"); rather a complexity of design, detail, and craftsmanship.
I dont want to get my hopes up too high, but this truly is, as you said, the defining album of their career. I hope that with more time, collaboration, and an additional member bringing in new ideas and possibilities, they will brake the mold and produce something truly intriguing.

 

[the_3_toed_sloth]

Is it time again for another break in the muscial direction of the band such as Morningrise -> MAYH?

Since MAYH, they have done a great job of refining and exploring their current style. With Deliverance, as ive noted in another thread devoted to it, this trademark sound has run its course, and i think its time for a shakeup. The formula of octave chord driven death metal puncuated by 1 minute segments of acoustic/clean vocals is becoming too predictable for a "progressive" band.

I really have to say that i have my worries about the new album. Deliverance and Damnation almost seemed to try split Opeth's music into halves, when their greatest strength is the joining of these 'styles'. I fear that if anything like Deliverance is attempted again it will be weak and formulaic, an often repeated claim about Deliverance itself. The decision to create a 'black metal' album in itself scares me, suggesting perhaps imitation rather than the genre-breaking sound Opeth has built in the past. But to be honest i think the change will be more akin to Morn -> MAYH than SL -> BWP, which puts a very excited little smile on my face...call it a premonition..

One of my biggest questions concerns vocals; how much left is there to explore with the death vox? While i think it should remain a component of their sound, perhaps it is time that it took a secondary role, and was not the primary vocal method. With the latest Ayreon release, i was blown away by Mike's clean and especially his harsh vocals- precisely because they were used more sparingly. Used as brutal accents, the death vocals gain a new intensity and freshness. I also was impressed by the variation in tone and voicing of the death vocals- it was a sign that there is still room for creativity.

I would love to see the band really push the progressive-metal boundry like they once did; in my mind the death vox must become more varied and rare to prevent over saturation and desensitization (i shouldnt get "acclimated" to it- it is a man roaring and screaming after all) and the somewhat stagnant composition must evolve past what it became in Deliverance (no more banging out a riff for 5 minutes).

That could be very interesting. Not a favoured use of clean vocals as such, but perhaps a restrained use of vocals entirely. This makes me think of the beginning to In Mist She Was Standing, an excellently sparing use of lyrics, as opposed to, say, The Funeral Portrait, which while has some brilliant passages, also seems to use vocals to hide musical repetition. Mike has been improving his voice constantly till it is beyond dispute as to its quality, but it should not overshadow the music. I say let the guitars (and drums!) do the talking first and foremost, the vocals pulled back from their domineering position of late (not to say lost, not at all, just not at the expense of the rest).

 

[Draehl]

A really ambient INSTRUMENTAL album would be awesome. I've always loved instrumentals and as much as I love Mike's voice it would be a change of pace to do an all instrumental album.

 

[Moonstruck]

An instrumental Opeth album, never thought of that. Would be cool indeed. Or maybe a heavy instrumental song, that would be interesting to hear too.

 

[L0bster]

no! the SL vein! after turning up the bass volume, though

Heh, yeah, that bass is a bit loow in the mix.

They need to backtrack and stick to the MAYH vein...

A musicians nightmate : The "back-to-the-roots-monger"

 

[coolsnow7]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking...

Meh, I think if they're doing the "gregorian chants + black metal" thing like they've said they are, I'm betting on an experimenting album where they don't entirely focus on the guitar-oriented music but the different elements they can bring in to compliment it...I'm trying to be optimistic, but these albums have a tendency not to be wonderful. I hope they pull it off, and don't fit my predictions.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Considering a great deal of BM sucks, and a great deal is incredible, I wonder which path Opeth will take.

I hope they don't do anything cheesy. Defending this band is one of the hardest things ever.

 

[Nico]

I still rekon that Mike only mentioned "black metal" to get a few fans interested. I don't think the album will sound, or have anything to do with black metal.

 

[Inconium Guard]

Opeth needs to make a full blown rap album....but it will be about forests instead of shooting cops...


No, not really. But it would be hilarious. They could remix serenity painted death!