Opeth's ecclecticism

[Black Session]

After listening to Ghost Reveries now for years, and with the new album coming up, I was wondering something, and I wanted to know if anyone feels the same or if it's just me.

The main difference of GR compared to their other albums is, I think, the fact that the songs differ a lot more in style. So much even that they maybe should have been part of another project than Opeth ...
First of all: I love all Opeth songs so far, also Atonement and certainly Hours of Wealth (gives me goosebumps). But these 2 songs at least don't really fit in the album. This is the reason that I didn't like Atonement for a long time, because it simply doesn't fit in ... if it would be part of a different album with songs with the same vibe, than I would have liked it a lot more. I've listened to it on it's own, and I started to like it more then.

Perhaps I can compare it to Devin Townsend to make clear what I want to say. Imagine that he put a song from the DTB or other projects on a Strapping Young Lad album? It wouldn't work ...
Or imagine a song from Damnation being on another album of Opeth, it wouldn't work either ...
Opeth had a lot of variety before on their albums, but always consistent with the vibe of the album. I couldn't imagine Deliverance without A Fair Judgement for example.

There are several other possibilities ... Mikael could do side projects (of course I know how time consuming these things can be), or they could with the same bandmembers from Opeth release other stuff under a different band name, or they could release different albums (like they did with Damnation), or they could make EP's for these kinds of stuff ...
Well, in short, I'm not downgrading Opeth at all, I love all of their music thusfar. But it seems that Mikael had "too many" ideas when writing for GR and they put them all on one album which didn't really work for some songs. He has a lot of ideas now again, I'm wondering if it will be that ecclectic again or that there will be more consistency again. I don't really like albums that are a collection of very different songs ... an album is a whole and should be conceived that way.

Does anyone agree?
(sorry for the long explanation, but hey, perhaps this will keep away the stupid kids with their superficial and hollow one-sentence remarks)

 

[BlueSky]

Actually they all seem damn consistent to me as do all the albums. A little too consistent. But what some people need to understand is a band should have variety, and dynamics on a cd, thats really what music is about. A band stands for a group of people who have chemistry together, and write, and play music together. A band is not a certain style or genre so them making up different group names is not only silly, but is not smart on the business side of the fence. I say they're in dire need to bring more musical variety next time.

 

[biggsy]

Great thread.

Personally I thought GR had a great mix of different feelings and emotions right the way through. Atonement, to be fair, probably was just a little too different but I don't think it really detracted from the album as a whole in any way, it only meant it was harder to appreciate the track itself. I guess really, the opinion of certain songs not 'fitting in' is just that: an opinion. I think though, that the EP idea is a good one. It's worked really well for bands like Porcupine Tree and Katatonia so I can't really see it being a problem with Opeth. It's just a matter of excluding songs, picking and choosing according to the bands taste. Also, that would mean a new release shortly after we've finished devouring the next

On another note, it's great to see people speaking of albums as a whole entity. Too many people these days download an entire album and listen to two or three whole songs. For me, the best way to listen to music is in its full form, like the artist intended. To split tracks up is ok I guess, but you miss the build up, the ebbs and flows and the overall vibe of an album, especially I find, with Opeth records.

 

[nizzon]

I agree with you Black Session. I usually listen to the whole albums when I listen to music, hardly ever have my playlist on shuffle, and I had big trouble going through GR without skipping a track at first. But i think i have gotten used to it now and GR feels a bit more special now for some reason.

I hope the new album is a tad more consistent though.

 

[Korlich]

I guess i feel exactly the oposite. Only GoP and IY are stand-out songs in the sense I listen to them alone. The rest is still good but best listened to as a whole. The only song that perhaps doesnt fit that good is IY, u can compare that to D2 ending with weaknes rather than ending credits.

 

[FUBAR]

Perhaps I can compare it to Devin Townsend to make clear what I want to say. Imagine that he put a song from the DTB or other projects on a Strapping Young Lad album? It wouldn't work ...

Hehe He's done that few times...try 'Two Weeks' from the alien album. And the last SYL album was basically a mixture between his solo work and SYL.

sorry i'm a Dev geek

 

[chrisdoig24k]

I agree with you Black Session. I usually listen to the whole albums when I listen to music, hardly ever have my playlist on shuffle, and I had big trouble going through GR without skipping a track at first. But i think i have gotten used to it now and GR feels a bit more special now for some reason.

I hope the new album is a tad more consistent though.

Shuffle is the work of the devil, I'm also not a fan.

 

[Dante's Inferno]

Though I respect the opinion, I disagree with it.*Opeth is the kind of band where there are many different styles combined. I'm not saying it is, but your thread idea is essentially that they should have less variation, but maybe that's just because I love both Atonement and Hours of Wealth.

 

[soundave]

Very thoughtfully presented, BlackSession. I understand what you're saying about the ecclecticism sort of pulling the band in (too) many different directions. I respectfully disagree. In terms of the album dynamics, the "different" songs give you breathing room. In this way, the album itself is a macrocosm of an Opeth song. It's the contrast that makes a lot of what they do work, anyway. I think they are fully realizing, on an album scale, what they do in their songs. To me, this is a major, positive development. Tone-wise, the songs work for the album. Atonement is like coming up for air after a long underwater swim when it kicks in. But lyrically, it's in line with the rest of the album. Hours of Wealth is dark, lyrically. Pure despair. And Mike's solo has always struck me as a very David Gilmour meets Mark Knopfler moment. The guitar just drips with emotion. And Isolation Years is much the same in terms of despair (but mature despair...not 17 year old the-world-doesn't-get-me despair). In these ways, GR is, for me, their most musically satisfying album.

And, as someone said earlier, on their own, the songs probably don't work as well as they do on the album played as a whole. Atonement wouldn't be a good choice for a single. Nor is it really indicative of what Opeth does or can do. But it serves the album, and I'm glad it's there.

 

[annt]

I must agree with Black Session. At least musically speaking, I think for me those songs just don't fit with with the vibe of the album, whereas Isolation Years, for example, does.
It's a bit same with TGC too. On the other hand, all these three songs are different from what Opeth have done in the past, and without them the album could sound a bit too similar to their previous works... well, actually now that I think of it, not really, with the keyboards and all.
I'm also a fan of consistent Albums as opposed to collections of songs.

/useless train of thought post

 

[Black Session]

Though I respect the opinion, I disagree with it.*Opeth is the kind of band where there are many different styles combined. I'm not saying it is, but your thread idea is essentially that they should have less variation, but maybe that's just because I love both Atonement and Hours of Wealth.

Well, there also was a lot of variaton before, especially on Blackwater Park and Deliverance. I like variation a lot, but not in the way when there are random songs in totally different styles (this is not the same as incorporating different styles in one song).
I guess this is the reason I always had a different feeling with GR than with the other albums.
But like I said, I also love those "other" songs, I just feel they should have been on a seperate project/album/EP.
Oh well, if the next album is again building up the variety, I won't complain, but I do hope that Opeth will create albums again that feel like a whole a bit more, because this was for me one of their big strenghts.
Of course, this is all opinion and feeling :Smug:

 

[annt]

I think MAYH is the best example of a perfect Opeth _album_. It's the only album that could have been one long song, and it shows that variation and consistency don't necessarily shut each other off.

I agree, again, that variation inside a song is better than separate songs in a totally different style. It can work with some bands, though they're usually the bands that do all kinds of songs all the time anyway. Example: Secret Chiefs 3

I'm sure Mike had his reasons to put these songs on GR, and I don't blame him for that, and I think they're good songs, but... I guess everyone looks at these things a bit differently.

 

[bens0n]

I guess I'm a freak, I have all the albums on shuffle in my opeth playlist.

but now that I think about it, yea atonement doesn't really sound like it fits, I still like it though.

hours of wealth gave me goosebumps the first time I listened to it.

 

[Albatros]

yeap, Gr is a bit like a collection of songs and not an album as a whole.

 

[dwoakee]

I can understand what you mean, BlackSession. Atonement to me has this indian vibe which is really a pretty radical contrast to the rest of GR (or any other Opeth song) so I can see that it's too much of a stretch for somebody. But to me, it wasn't. I agree with soundave here. To me it was a perfect chillout after three long, complex and pretty much exhausting songs. It was just relaxing, refreshing. If they'ld have done some Reggae, now, that would have been too much for me.