Orchid/Morningrise - cohesiveness

[Korlich]

Okay, it's a common trend around here to label Orchid and Morningrise the 'fragmented', 'disjointed' and 'uncohesive' releases. I beleive this is totaly full of shit. Orchid flows better than any of the releases in my opinion. The melodies have smooth transitions. The acoustic interludes, being more infrequent than later albums, are strategicaly placed for maximum effect. It's all very good.

Most people's problem with Morningrise is Black Rose Immortal. Yes, it's a little sketchy at times, it's more like 2-3 songs than one large one... but just think; what if it had been titled like this:

4) Black Rose Immortal
i) Spiritual Eclipse
ii) The Calmness of a Whisper
iii) The Amaranth Symbol

Personaly, I don't think anyone would be complaining if it were titled like this. As far as I can tell from the lyrics, the song is meant to be a single story, I consider each 'fragment' to be a different chapter.

Also, people must remember that Black Rose is only about 1/3 of the album. The rest of the songs are all very well structured, and are very efficient at driving emotion (ie. Night and Silent Water).


Keep in mind also, that most of the material for Orchid and Morningrise was written between 92-95. That's a hell of a long time to structure the songs the way they should be done. Deliverance, on the other hand, was mostly written in the studio under tremendous pressure over several weeks. How you people can think that Deliverance is more coheisve than Orchid to me remains a mystery.

I agree with every thing you say except BRI is the BEST song on MR, and it´s one of the most coherent Opeth songs period.

 

[the_3_toed_sloth]

Okay, it's a common trend around here to label Orchid and Morningrise the 'fragmented', 'disjointed' and 'uncohesive' releases. I beleive this is totaly full of shit. Orchid flows better than any of the releases in my opinion. The melodies have smooth transitions. The acoustic interludes, being more infrequent than later albums, are strategicaly placed for maximum effect. It's all very good.

The melodies may transition smoothly, but they are often still unrelated, more so in Orchid than Morningrise. It is all too often incredibly generous to say that the songs have a 'common thread' between the riffs, unlike the later releases. This isn't to say the album isnt damn good, or damn enjoyable, but liking something shouldn't prevent you from seeing its faults.

Most people's problem with Morningrise is Black Rose Immortal. Yes, it's a little sketchy at times, it's more like 2-3 songs than one large one... but just think; what if it had been titled like this:

4) Black Rose Immortal
i) Spiritual Eclipse
ii) The Calmness of a Whisper
iii) The Amaranth Symbol

Personaly, I don't think anyone would be complaining if it were titled like this. As far as I can tell from the lyrics, the song is meant to be a single story, I consider each 'fragment' to be a different chapter.

And what a shame it wasn't titled like this, because that would make sense. As it is, it does feel like three 'bits' put together under one title, and that marks a lack of foresight on the part of Akerfeldt in the writing process more than it does anything else. Perhaps 20 minutes really is (or at least was) too long for Akerfeldt to write a single piece of cohesive material.

Also, people must remember that Black Rose is only about 1/3 of the album. The rest of the songs are all very well structured, and are very efficient at driving emotion (ie. Night and Silent Water).

Agreed. I wish i could say the same for Orchid. To me, i think Morningrise was the natural growth of what Opeth started with Orchid, and while both have their own pros and cons (hell, i know many here love the fact that Orchid has such a wandering variety in its songs, which esp Deliverance has limited), the band grew for the better.

Keep in mind also, that most of the material for Orchid and Morningrise was written between 92-95. That's a hell of a long time to structure the songs the way they should be done. Deliverance, on the other hand, was mostly written in the studio under tremendous pressure over several weeks. How you people can think that Deliverance is more coheisve than Orchid to me remains a mystery.

Hahahahah! I know kiwis and aussies barely ever agree, but thats just hilarious...i conclude the exact opposite by those writing times! 4 years is a loooong time to keep ANYTHING cohesive. You think you would write something the same now as you would've 4 years ago? That period of time would have meant constant re-writing and re-tooling, even changing the entire directions of songs. There is no way in hell that after 4 years anyone would write the same song they originally set out to make. People just change far too much, take on new influences, realize different desires. Deliverance on the other hand would basically have followed his original idea, as he wouldn't have had time to radically alter it (probably why the structures are largely straightforward, though i still strongly disagree that this equates to a lack of depth).

 

[suislidE]

subjective? ok whatever doods... hope you know it was a joke.

 

[Necramentia]

Word.

indeed it is a word.

 

[Nico]

*Places shotgun in mouth*


...

 

[suislidE]

yea no shit dec

 

[Necramentia]

cupcakes anyone?