Orphaned Land / Suidakra US tour???
- Thread starter Jasonic
- Start date
nomisofsiman
Member
I really would like to support this show. I feel I've probably seen the best OL performance at progpower this year too. The problem is like others have been saying, the beginning of the year-spring has a shitload of good shows which will make this tough to do.
Palabra de Dios
Heavy Metal Weatherman
I need to see Suidakra again. They were soooo good on that Tyr/Alestorm show. Alas, I believe this might bypass the South completely.
skyrefuge
Member
Interesting point, particularly in light of the fact that Orphaned Land's "culture" is a bit more expansive and inclusive than what comes to mind when I (ignorantly) think of specific Middle-Eastern-based cultures. On the whole then I guess this may make them appeal to broader set of cultural identities, but I wonder if their inclusiveness will also prevent a strong cultural identification for some?
I've seen similar effects myself, with a Cambodian band, or Japanese bands as Claus mentioned, but I wonder why this only works for non-European bands? There are a lot of Poles in Chicago, but I don't know that I've seen them turn out in droves for Behemoth. Then again, that could be because the average Pole doesn't look much different than a 10th-generation American metalhead!
I bet you haven't been to the new Lincoln Hall yet! I agree with everything else you said about the Bottom Lounge though.
Why were you even at Ticketmaster? Just using that as your search-engine? Shame on you!
I think most of the clubs in the city avoid Ticketmaster now. House of Blues and Vic/Riv/Aragon on up are about the only places that force you to Ticketmaster. Also, it's an MPShows show, which is about as non-corporate as you can get, and also means that I'm fairly confident it's for real, since I don't really recall him jumping the gun much in the past.Neil
Maybe so, though there is this Polish guy at my work who is not really into metal, but does know about Behemoth and Vader.
Diabolik
Member
Behemoth are considered poser black metal in the Kvlt metal scene. I have seen Vader and lots of Polish people come out for them...just metalheads..not families and such.
zedowns
Member
Diabolik
Member
I guess you are not Kvlt. Then again...is that being Kvlt? this gets so confusing. I am so far out I am in.
AMBR
Metal Grandma
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
If what's being suggested is, that the Jewish and/or Israeli community will support them by attending their shows, I respectfully disagree. For starters, we're talking about a very small percentage of the overall population, 2.2%.
- Subtract from that number people for whom religion / culture / heritage isn't that important
- Subtract from that number people who will never hear about this show
- Subtract from that number the people who aren't going to see a Metal show, simply because of shared religion / culture / heritage
- Subtract from that number the people who won't be available to go or who don't have the disposable income
- Subtract from that number anyone who goes to their MySpace page and queues up some of their music out of curiosity... let's face it, Orphaned Land is hardly music for the masses
- Subtract from that number Friday night shows, as anyone who is going solely because of a shared religious background likely observes a Friday night sabbath
And as others have pointed out, I don't see non-Metal fans of Swedish, Polish or German decent at shows, when bands from their country/culture are performing.
Zod
Orphaned Land plays culturally relevant music. Mägo de Oz does as well, and they get non traditional metal folks to turn out. Orphaned Land can get advertisement from being 'sponsored' that can help turn people out. Not sure how successful it will be, but its not always all about the numbers.
Diabolik
Member
I totally agree with you. It would be different if they were playing in a neighboorhood with a strong ethnic population, but they are not. I am still trying to wrap my head around this tour. It seems they are playing larger clubs. At least when Cauldron / Enforcer toured the states they played really small places.
AngraRULES
Member
How about the NYC show? There's a strong Israeli/Jewish population there (very strong). Not that Orphaned Land is necessarily Jewish, but don't you think there's the potential of a packed house that night?
I agree with Zod too. I understand the notion that there is certainly a cultural appeal, but Jews, Israelis, and middle eastern non-metal fans really aren't aware of Orphaned Land. On the flipside, there are thousands of Latino non-metal fans who are aware of Mago De Oz, etc.
Bob - I am sure whoever is the promoter for the tour has no idea what the difference between the Bottom Lounge and a smaller club. I am sure it came down to what was available, and what kind of deal was worked out. As I said in my previous post, the smartest thing for the club to offer is a percentage of the door, as opposed to a flat guarantee. The Chicago show will do fine, as Indian is on the bill. Though I know you don't like them, they do draw a hipster element that otherwise would not come to this show. The hipster metal crowd, at least in Chicago, is probably the most loyal.
Bob - I am sure whoever is the promoter for the tour has no idea what the difference between the Bottom Lounge and a smaller club. I am sure it came down to what was available, and what kind of deal was worked out. As I said in my previous post, the smartest thing for the club to offer is a percentage of the door, as opposed to a flat guarantee. The Chicago show will do fine, as Indian is on the bill. Though I know you don't like them, they do draw a hipster element that otherwise would not come to this show. The hipster metal crowd, at least in Chicago, is probably the most loyal.
Well, how would non-metalhead Jews find out about this even????
I suppose if they are going to do target advertising in each market, which would cost a pretty penny. If like most metal tours, the advertising will stop with the internet, thus leaving this show as underground as others.
Chicago has a large everything population.
The only dedicated fans heritage wise are the Mexicans, Spaniards, other Latinos.....
skyrefuge
Member
Well, that's not quite the right number to look at. So far we only have listings for two shows, New York and Chicago. New York has the 2nd-largest Jewish population, and Chicago the 9th-largest, in the world. Put another way, New York has four times the Jewish population of Jerusalem, and Chicago has half of Jerusalem. If you look at it that way, maybe they are onto something.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm#_Toc26172080
Here are the top metro areas, so if this is actually the strategy they're following, maybe southeast Florida has a rare shot at landing a metal tour?
1 Tel Aviv Israel 2,560,000
2 New York U.S. 1,970,000
3 Haifa Israel 655,000
4 Los Angeles U.S. 621,000
5 Jerusalem Israel 570,000
6 Southeast Florida U.S. 514,000
7 Paris France 310,000
8 Philadelphia U.S. 276,000
9 Chicago U.S. 261,000
10 Boston U.S. 227,000
When I've seen the band Dengue Fever (an American band with a Cambodian singer who originally came up on Trey Spruance's record label) play in Chicago, I'd say 30% of the crowd has been Cambodian, and I bet Chicago's Cambodian population isn't nearly as large as the Jewish population. And these are pretty underground shows, with maybe 50 people showing up. But somehow they found out. However, their music is probably a bit more enticing to the average Cambodian palate than Orphaned Land is to the average Jewish palate. Orphaned Land isn't exactly a nice klezmer band, and they aren't even Matisyahu.
I've also seen nice old Indian couples watching Buckethead (fucking Buckethead, a 9-foot-tall dude wearing a mask with chicken bucket on his head!) because he was playing with Zakir Hussein.
Then there's the example of Dir en grey, who play some pretty insane prog-death-metal, and the show I just saw was packed with screaming teenage girls. The point there is how it's possible for a cultural association to completely override normal musical preferences. But yeah, a Japan-loving teenage girl is probably more likely to be musically open-minded and culturally obsessed than the average Brooklyn Jew.
So overall, I'd say your calculation of 1.4 is a bit low, but I'd only bump it up to 5.2.
Neil
Diabolik
Member
wow....it must be a slow week in metal when we are debating how many from one bands ethnic group will be at the show. Sure I think this tour isnt going to draw, but I am super glad it is happening. I really hope it does well, maybe more and more bands will then come over. Not that we are in a shortage...but I always love seeing bands I like play live.
This might be a bad example but I remember distintly when Nightwish played the Pearl Room and a couple of us had a discussion about a lot of the people who were in attendance that we would never see at other metal shows. Most of those people were speaking Finnish or Swedish so odviously they were there for that reason.
Do you guys think that the Chicago stop would do better if it was in Skokie? There's a reason why Mago de Oz draws huge amounts of Latinos at the Aragon. I'd like to see them draw that much if they played Naperville.
Do you guys think that the Chicago stop would do better if it was in Skokie? There's a reason why Mago de Oz draws huge amounts of Latinos at the Aragon. I'd like to see them draw that much if they played Naperville.
Diabolik
Member
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