Oslo bombing

[kvoid]

He was far from a deranged fanatic, which in my eyes makes him even more dangerous.

what is this I don't even....

Precisely where do people like Breivik differ from people like Bin Laden? I'd argue, nowhere. What's the "belief" and "idea" that fuels both? Fanatical attachment to a fairytale.

I see a lot of folks sidestepping the religion issue, dude is a freaking zealot of the highest order. He'll be in court in a few hours so we will doubtlessly get treated to a tirade from another criminal nutjob (certainly seems that's all you get these days watching the news). Knights Templar? Are those the guys that work at Whitecastle? Let's get real here. Luckily he lacks a few crucial ingredients for his Knights Templar 2083 (sounds like someone played a lot of warhammer 40k) to become an Al Qaeda, but his whole rationale is straight from the Osama and Ayman cookbook. Maybe even more devious (and downright stupid) in parts, if that is anyhow possible.

 

[Notuern]

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." - Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics

Not to imply this scum is good people, of course..

This may very well be the greatest quote that i have ever seen.

 

[Wohma]

what is this I don't even....

Precisely where do people like Breivik differ from people like Bin Laden? I'd argue, nowhere. What's the "belief" and "idea" that fuels both? Fanatical attachment to a fairytale.

I see a lot of folks sidestepping the religion issue, dude is a freaking zealot of the highest order. He'll be in court in a few hours so we will doubtlessly get treated to a tirade from another criminal nutjob (certainly seems that's all you get these days watching the news). Knights Templar? Are those the guys that work at Whitecastle? Let's get real here. Luckily he lacks a few crucial ingredients for his Knights Templar 2083 (sounds like someone played a lot of warhammer 40k) to become an Al Qaeda, but his whole rationale is straight from the Osama and Ayman cookbook. Maybe even more devious (and downright stupid) in parts, if that is anyhow possible.

My comment has nothing to do with religion. Bin Laden did not participate in a single action, that's why the analogy is incorrect. And how does Breivik differ from the usual suicidal bomber? He's smart, he plans a lot and he's very hard to trace/discover. I wasn't talking about the ideology, but about the carrying out.

 

[johnMM]

Man so fucked up...I just don't understand. Highly intelligent and methodical guy like this, and his grand scheme is to kill.....liberals? what?

That's what's so scary. A little bit of casual research into the psychology of terrorism reveals that they are nine times out of ten far from stupid people. It's just that other part of their brain--the part that empathizes and cares about other people--is beyond fucked.

Also, interestingly, the ideologies and "The Cause" are often only a pretext. "The Cause" is often only a recruitment tool. There are more basic wants and needs to be satisfied by committing these crimes: the need to be accepted by a group, recognition, fame and fortune, etc. This has huge implications when it comes to eradicating extremists and terrorists in that they are often not 100% driven by their ideology. Removing the ideology does not necessarily remove the extremist. They'll find something else to be assholes about.

 

[sprack]

There's an interesting read on why so many people involved in terrorism have engineering degree's.

http://www.slate.com/id/2240157/

Gambetta and Hertog write about a particular mind-set among engineers that disdains ambiguity and compromise.

 

[Mutant]

Yeah so he may be intelligent, but there are many different kinds of intelligence.

Obviously he was not smart enough to know that terrorism simply doesn't work and how the modern democracy works.

His actions will most probably have exactly opposite political effect, formerly undecided people will more likely vote for the party that lost so many young members on that island and/or against the extreme right wing.

He created a lot of martyrs and politicians will surely use it to their advantage.

 

[Star Ark]

The maximun jail term needs to be tripled

At this rate he will be 53 when he is released, people in their 80's can still be sharp and healthy. Just from watching his film on youtube I found he has supporters leaving coments, he would have people all over Europe reading his book and agreeing with him by now. If he can be contacted ever, or have any media attention it will spur on his new devotees. He needs to be killed, or at least declared insane enough that he is pumped full of so many drugs he brains no longer functions. Even as a concept, a faceless leader in solitary confinement in jail, he is extremely dangerous to this world. I read the first 50 pages of his book, so well constructed and meticulously planned, it sickened me...... just the thought of this man is a danger to this world

 

[johnMM]

Yeah so he may be intelligent, but there are many different kinds of intelligence.

Obviously he was not smart enough to know that terrorism simply doesn't work and how the modern democracy works.

With regards to the effectiveness of terrorism, it can be argued that--and of course this depends on the definition of "terrorism," and this is something experts can't seem to agree on--it has been effective to a limited extent (not always). Don't forget that dividing a nation's people and creating a polarized, hostile political and social environment is often a goal of terrorism. In fact, terrorism succeeds in achieving Goal #1 (a.k.a., the domination of their ideology or the satisfaction of their demands) by doing precisely that! A person doesn't have to go too far back into history to find instances where, at least this division, has occured in the target.

It's not that the terrorist doesn't understand how democracy works--it's not that black and white. Rather, they have become convinced of its utter lack of effectiveness. Voting doesn't work fast enough, writing your representatives is pointless, etc.

By saying that the terrorist is an intelligent person is by no means some sort of perverted compliment. It's mearly an acknowledgement of the facts: there are some very smart terrorists out there. It's a cliche, but if we really want to truly rid the world of their disgusting existence, then we had better understand what makes them tick.

 

[Wohma]

The maximun jail term needs to be tripled

At this rate he will be 53 when he is released

I hope someone will correct me if I'm misinformed, but from what I've read it seems that the maximum sentence is really 21 years, but it can be repeatedly extended for 5 years. And an analysis I read said that his chances of getting out of the prison at any given time in future is very very low (unless the politics and the jurisdiction radically change)..

 

[John_C]

I think anyone who's capable of killing that many unarmed people should be covered by appropriate mental health legislation. There's clearly a major screw loose there.

 

[Derpsicle]

He was way to calculated to be mental ill.
He is just twisted, no mental issue can excuse this.

 

[midget donkeys]

There's an interesting read on why so many people involved in terrorism have engineering degree's.

http://www.slate.com/id/2240157/

That is an interesting read. Could be some truth to it. I am an engineer and their indeed a personality type that is attracted to this type of work.

Now shifting gears....

I was reading a bit on Norway and prison sentencing, mental health etc. What the hell is going on? 21 years max. sentence! I can only assume this based off the assumption that prison should reform a criminal. This guy can't be reformed. His continued existence will only provide for him a platform to preach his flawed ideas.

And as I understand it there is no way to involuntarily commit someone to a mental health hospital even if they are a danger to the public in Norway.

So it does not appear that Norway's legal system can handle this guy. Can he be tried in some type of international court after his sentence in Norway is over?

 

[John_C]

He was way to calculated to be mental ill.
He is just twisted, no mental issue can excuse this.

It's not an excuse for him, it's an excuse for Norway to lock him up indefinitely.
Also, I would argue that just because you're capable of methodical planning doesn't mean you're not crazy, you're just a high functioning nutcase as opposed to a dribbling wreck.

 

[Line666]

That is an interesting read. Could be some truth to it. I am an engineer and their indeed a personality type that is attracted to this type of work.

Now shifting gears....

I was reading a bit on Norway and prison sentencing, mental health etc. What the hell is going on? 21 years max. sentence! I can only assume this based off the assumption that prison should reform a criminal. This guy can't be reformed. His continued existence will only provide for him a platform to preach his flawed ideas.

And as I understand it there is no way to involuntarily commit someone to a mental health hospital even if they are a danger to the public in Norway.

So it does not appear that Norway's legal system can handle this guy. Can he be tried in some type of international court after his sentence in Norway is over?

The whole 21 years thing isn't true, it was debunked fairly quickly.

If he's categorised as a risk to the public and general safety then they can extend his sentence indefinitely beyond the so called 21 year limit, this means they can keep him locked up forever because he will always be a potential threat to human life.

Make no mistake this guy will spend the rest of his life behind bars.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

I was reading a bit on Norway and prison sentencing, mental health etc. What the hell is going on? 21 years max. sentence! I can only assume this based off the assumption that prison should reform a criminal. This guy can't be reformed. His continued existence will only provide for him a platform to preach his flawed ideas.

Again, this is just the result of bullshit journalism. They can sentence him up to 21 years, after which they can throw 5-year sentences at him as much as they want, effectively keeping him behind the bars for the rest of his life. Additionally, if the crime is considered a crime against humanity, the sentence can be up to 30 years.

 

[jipchen]

Again, this is just the result of bullshit journalism. They can sentence him up to 21 years, after which they can throw 5-year sentences at him as much as they want, effectively keeping him behind the bars for the rest of his life. Additionally, if the crime is considered a crime against humanity, the sentence can be up to 30 years.

Well that's a shimmer of hope there. Still, I have the feeling the difficult part is preventing him from spreading his venom through the prison (like he plans to). Sure most people, even most criminals, will say he's insane but it's enough if just a few commit to his cause and terrorize Norway again.
And it's pretty fucking difficult (at least in Germany) to keep a prisoners locked away from the others (in prison) over a very long timespan. Pretty sure it's against international law and the basic human rights to isolate him for the rest of his life.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Also, I would argue that just because you're capable of methodical planning doesn't mean you're not crazy, you're just a high functioning nutcase as opposed to a dribbling wreck.

I'd argue that his actions were the logical conclusion of his views and theories.

I'm not saying that he isn't crazy, just that it's very easy to feel better by making it seem as if he is not exactly the same as you or I, just with very extreme views.

 

[midget donkeys]

Again, this is just the result of bullshit journalism. They can sentence him up to 21 years, after which they can throw 5-year sentences at him as much as they want, effectively keeping him behind the bars for the rest of his life. Additionally, if the crime is considered a crime against humanity, the sentence can be up to 30 years.

That makes more sense. Seems a bit add hoc to do it 5 years at a time though. Consecutive sentencing makes more sense to me. Fore instance 21 years in prison for each person murdered. Hell execution makes a lot more sense to me.

Another thing I have been pondering is that he must have wanted to be caught. For how detailed his planning was he shurely could have prepared to escape from the island. He could have concealed his face during the attack on the island also thereby making himself harder to identify.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Another thing I have been pondering is that he must have wanted to be caught. For how detailed his planning was he shurely could have prepared to escape from the island. He could have concealed his face during the attack on the island also thereby making himself harder to identify.

Yes, he did, although he believed he wouldn't make it alive. He calls the imprisonement and trial the "Propaganda Phase." It's all in the book.

 

[Skinny Viking]

and Varg weighs in

http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/war_in_europe01.shtml

still an asshole and still dumb as shit