OT Black Album Live!
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timmyc
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- Dec 16, 2002
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Social Distortion
The Voice of Reason
Some posters should re-read this thread and see how fucking stupid this is. Seriously, you're acting like bunch of high school girls. I wish I was a mod.
johnnieCzech
Your favourite Czech
johnnieCzech
Your favourite Czech
It's funny that main riff in the intro almost sounds like The Devil You Know
Don't think it sounds alike at all... The Devil You Know riff is like a slowed down version of Caught In A Mosh.
If anything, Fuel sounds like Fueled
timmyc
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Don't think it sounds alike at all... The Devil You Know riff is like a slowed down version of Caught In A Mosh.
If anything, Fuel sounds like Fueled
Joecephus
Member
Never really listened to much German thrash other than Kreator, who were doing their industrial stuff around that time, so thanks for the suggestion.
It's not that I don't like fast stuff, more that as I've got older I find most of Kill 'em All to be quite cheesy lyrically compared to Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets. Much like the cod-Satanist stuff on Show No Mercy is hard to take seriously whereas the songs about religion on, say, Christ Illusion show a more measured atheistic approach from Kerry King that recalls Motorhead's I Don't Need Religion and Orgasmatron - there's less 'we worship Satan' shock for the sake of it.
I've been listening to thrash since 1986 and still do so today (along with various other styles and artists I like) so I wouldn't say I've never got into it. But I was never 'true' in the sense of only being willing to listen to this one sort of music.
I think the Bell Curve idea mentioned earlier is worth thinking about here: The more extreme forms of music are never going to appeal to wider audiences, whether that be early industrial (Throbbing Gristle, Einsturzende Neubauten) free jazz (Ornette Coleman, Albert Ayler), Power Electronics (Whitehouse), Viennese school classical (Schoenberg, Berg, Webern) or many forms of metal. But it's also important to remember that this curve shifts over time, as we become accustomed to a style and new innovations are made. Led Zeppelin don't seem particularly 'heavy' or 'extreme' now - nor for that matter did Slayer in 1986 if you listened to Napalm Death. Metallica helped make this shift with TBA, though in the process they also delivered something that wasn't particularly thrash.
This actually supports my viewpoint.
I agree there is no "thrash" as we knew it then on TBA. If that album was bookended by Fast songs, most would say it's like any other album before it. In any case, it so obviously still sounds like Metallica, stripped down but still Metallica. Yes they all have publicly said they went for a stripped down sound, but never have they said they sold out. Writing music that you believe in at that point in time is not selling out whether it's 100mhp all the time or not.I see-I just don't care about the lyrics. I like so many bands with "stupid" lyrics, as long as the music is exciting. Kill'em All, for instance, has many exciting songs, despite the youthful, "immature" lyrics. I don't care for mature or "meaningful" lyrics for their own sake. If I would, I would not listen to most bands. I really don't agree with most lyrics save those that tell you that stand for yourself, and to be yourself no matter what others expect you to be. I love those lyrics. Satanic lyrics are even humorous to me. I don't care for them at all (much like you) but if the music is good, I carry on. Same goes for Municipal Waste and their beer songs (Tankard too, and many others.) I don't even drink. Yet I love those bands and their songs, because I find them fun. As long as the music is exciting to me, it's all good-and of course it's ok for us to be different.
I am a classical musician too, so I've never really cared about lyrics for a long time. Most of the music I play and listen to doesn't have lyrics, and I don't always care for some opera's ludicrous subjects or lyrics. But if the music is wonderful, then that's awesome, and I don't mind the ocassional goffiness in the subjects/lyrics. Thrash/speed provides that fun/exciting element that I feel is lacking from so many much more "lyrically deeper" music (although of course there's the ocassional exciting thrash song with an actual good and meaningful content.)
So in summary, I rather take "shallow" exciting music than "deep" one that bores me (such as TBA, which of course you are free to listen to and love.)
I am not sure all Sodom's lyrics are great, but Tapping the Vein is really good-I imagine it won't be your thing, but you could do MUCH worse (IMHO) during that era.
This actually supports my viewpoint.
I believe it's selling out myself, but I don't care, because it's their band, and not mine-people like different things anyway, so it just means that I stopped listening to the band, which is my right. They gained many more fans due to that move. The music didn't really "evolve", IMHO-it just fulfilled two purposes: being more accesible than it ever was (although Metallica was never the least accessible band), and making the music much more easy for them to play live (IMHO, once more.) Their Thrash songs weren't the "hardest", but where much more complex than the overall content on TBA. I also understand it is one of your "growing up" albums, and as I said above, you should like what you like, whether it was sellout in my opinion or not. The only annoying thing is that it made things more difficult for everybody else that did want to continue on a Thrashier vein. But since Thrash was never meant to be popular (IMHO), that's ok too. So whether they sould out or not, I really don't care, because nobody is forcing me to listen to TBA, nor should I force others to listen to what I like.
In summary, whether it was a sellout album or not, if you like it, who cares? And similarly, if I call it a sellout album and refuse to listen to it, you shouldn't care about it either.
We need not argue about this stuff.
johnnieCzech
Your favourite Czech
I have heard that the new Kreator is the best thing they've put out in a long time. Gotta check it out.
resumurofnikufesin
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The new Kreator is bad from what I've heard but I don't think I'm so into the melodic parts. I still think they peaked on "Extreme Aggression" way back when.
Did you mean not bad or not that bad? I don't mean to belittle your opinion at all; I say this because your sentence is followed by "but."
In any case, as I said before, I think they were trying to go heavy metal meets Thrash, or viceversa. I like how emotional the music can get at times-even more than what it did on either Violent Revolution or Enemy of God. The last song (Until Our Paths Cross Again) is a good example of this; although not my favorite of the current album, it has an amazing emotive passage that leads to the end (immediately after the all-too-brief brutal thrash episode.)
I like Extreme Agression, but like Terrible Certainty and Coma of Souls both more. EA have some amazing songs in it of course-most of them! I think CoS was the genesis of today's Kreator, though (whether one likes that or not.) Despite these great albums, I still think that Hordes of Chaos was a true "back in form" album, and that it met any quality standards (including thrash-wise) that hey have set before. Of course feel free to strongly disagree; it's not as if Extreme Agression is an easy album to beat anyway.
The best Phantom ANtichrist songs in no particular order (album order, perhaps):
Phantom Antichrist (show worthy)
Death to the World (definitely show worthy)
From Flood Into Fire (not totally thrash per se, but not sure if they'll play it live. IT would work well, since it's so anthemic.)
Civilisation Collapes (great, but should not take the place of other even better songs live, IMHO)
United in Hate (along with PA and DttW, my true "must play live" favorites from this album. Perfect Thrash song in many ways, especially for live situations.)
Your Heaven, my Hell (I love this, because it's very emotional, even if I cannot relate to the lyrics literally. But symbollically, who has not ever felt as if what others think is good ("Heaven") for them (or society) is hell for you? I think they will probably play this live, but I would rather have them play the other 3 songs before this. I love it, though.)
The others 3 songs I left out are by no means bad; I really like them, but the others are even better. This album has lots of Thrash but no real trash (IMHO, of course-I realize many won't be able to get past the trad-metal/melodic sections-but I believe the songs are good anyway, so it doesn't matter to me.)
United in Hate, Death to the World, and Phantom Antichrist are indeed my rank 10 tracks, and my theoretical "best" from this album.
It took my a few listens to appreciate this album-Hordes of Chaos was easy to like on first listen. I do however feel both Hordes of Chaos and Phantom Antichrist are better than Violent Revolution or Enemy of God (which to some of you, might not be saying much, but those are pretty good too.)
In summary, whether it was a sellout album or not, if you like it, who cares? And similarly, if I call it a sellout album and refuse to listen to it, you shouldn't care about it either. We need not argue about this stuff.[/QUOTE]
This!!
I agree 100% I never wanted to argue at all. It says something about those people that go out of thier way to start rubbish.
We need not argue about this stuff.[/QUOTE]This!!
I agree 100% I never wanted to argue at all. It says something about those people that go out of thier way to start rubbish.
resumurofnikufesin
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- Aug 23, 2011
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I just don't like the melodic parts that sound like they're influenced by Swedish death metal that every mall-mosh-core band seems to try and incorporate these days. They rest of the song I heard was pretty good. In general, I really don't dislike the song as a whole I just don't think that Kreator needs to jump on someone else's bandwagon.
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