Overpopulation

[The Devil's Steed]

Clinical depression and manic depression can potentially be treated, but they aren't curable. This means that if someone has that problem they have a problem that can't be solved.

 

[Kenneth R.]

its only a problem if you approach it as one. i have seen quadrapolegic (sp) skiers and blind skiers, etc... people who refuse to let their "problems" be problems. they find solutions to enjoy life despite whatever is thrown upon them. simply committing suicide because your life "is too hard" is cowardice in my eyes and one of the lowest actions one can commit.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Who are you to tell me I don't have the right to decide? Or anyone else for that matter? Your beliefs are simply your opinion, they are not written in stone and the absolute right and wrong for everyone that exists in the world, like you seem to believe. I know it's hard to accept it...but please do. Otherwise, you really have no reason to post here since every debate will inherently end in a stalemate due to your "I'm right, your wrong, nothing will change that" attitude.

so you find yourself capable and justifiable in choosing who will live, who will die, and who is deserving of life?

 

[Xorv]

anyone who thinks their problems "cant" be solved and thinks ending their life is a good solution needs psychological help to fix their biggest problem.

xorv, i think it is YOU who does not understand.

It's quit obvious you don't know what you're talking about. I've had expierence with suicide. I've had friends who've commited suicide. And I still have friends who have tried to commit suicide, so don't tell me I don't understand when I know what I am talking about.

 

[Kenneth R.]

It's quit obvious you don't know what you're talking about. I've had expierence with suicide. I've had friends who've commited suicide. And I still have friends who have tried to commit suicide, so don't tell me I don't understand when I know what I am talking about.

and you think they did the right thing? you thought "wow, good for them! they solved their problem!" "thats the way out!"?

i still think you don't understand that taking one's life is not the answer. if losing several friends STILL hasn't convinced you, perhaps you'll never get it.

 

[Xorv]

and you think they did the right thing? you thought "wow, good for them! they solved their problem!" "thats the way out!"?

i still think you don't understand that taking one's life is not the answer. if losing several friends STILL hasn't convinced you, perhaps you'll never get it.

First of all there was nothing I can do to save them. I knew their life was terrible, but I never thought they'd solve their problems through suicide. Until one day.....

Your life may be precious, but theres others (especially in 3rd world countrys) that would rather die than live another day. Why can't you realize that not everyone lives in peace?

 

[NeverIsForever]

and you think they did the right thing? you thought "wow, good for them! they solved their problem!" "thats the way out!"?

i still think you don't understand that taking one's life is not the answer. if losing several friends STILL hasn't convinced you, perhaps you'll never get it.

Agreed 100%, my grandfather committed suicide. It happened when I was maybe 2, so I never really knew him, but I've seen the impact it left on my family who did. His troubles are over, sure, but emotionally speaking, what he did really messed up my grandmother and, to a lesser degree, their children. So yeah, he's free, but everyone left behind has to deal with it and I'm not so sure that's fair to ask of them.

 

[Kenneth R.]

First of all there was nothing I can do to save them. I knew their life was terrible, but I never thought they'd solve their problems through suicide. Until one day.....

Your life may be precious, but theres others (especially in 3rd world countrys) that would rather die than live another day. Why can't you realize that not everyone lives in peace?

if you think death is the only peace you are ignorantly wrong. all life is precious.

 

[Xorv]

if you think death is the only peace you are ignorantly wrong. all life is precious.

Did I say that?! Did I?! It's just for some people death is the only way they can have peace. Thats what they believe.

 

[speed]

I was in a nursing home today, and upon witnessing the feeble groans of 90 year olds that cannot even control their own bowels, I thought: " I better be able to shoot myself before I get like this."

Is life that precious? Precious enough that everyone must be kept alive even if all one does is drool and shit in their pants all day? If one no longer has any brain power and nothing more than a vegetable carted from room to room by nurses.

No Silent song, all life is not precious; most life is, some isnt. We are human you know, once our lives no longer resemble something human, one loses interest in such an primordial existance. If I comit suicide at 80 upon hearing I will turn into a vegetable, or hearing I am about to die of cancer, my family should be happy for me, I will be happy to return to sweet nothingness and escape the endless pain and suffering of a life with no future, and only nightmares of a healthy past.

 

[Silver Incubus]

well the only kind of suicide I think is alright is passive euthanasia, which is not having medical support to keep you alive, which is what old people should do. If no one takes care of em, they will die, if they can't do it themselves, that is the natural way to die anyways. None of these pills and potions and machines that keeps a corpse alive.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Did I say that?! Did I?! It's just for some people death is the only way they can have peace. Thats what they believe.

and would you not agree that they are mistaken in that belief? or would you support the actions of your now-gone friends?

 

[Kenneth R.]

I was in a nursing home today, and upon witnessing the feeble groans of 90 year olds that cannot even control their own bowels, I thought: " I better be able to shoot myself before I get like this."

Is life that precious? Precious enough that everyone must be kept alive even if all one does is drool and shit in their pants all day? If one no longer has any brain power and nothing more than a vegetable carted from room to room by nurses.

No Silent song, all life is not precious; most life is, some isnt. We are human you know, once our lives no longer resemble something human, one loses interest in such an primordial existance. If I comit suicide at 80 upon hearing I will turn into a vegetable, or hearing I am about to die of cancer, my family should be happy for me, I will be happy to return to sweet nothingness and escape the endless pain and suffering of a life with no future, and only nightmares of a healthy past.

torturing a being by keeping them alive beyond all reason is different than taking life away from a reasonably healthy individual. the complexity arrives in discerning where this border lies, as it varies situationally. still, life is indeed precious.

i do agree that death is no cause for suffering and should be looked upon as a transition rather than an end, but it is not something one should take into their own hands out of cowardice, unable to face the problems that life presents them.

 

[speed]

I was trying to argue that in some cases, life is not worth living, and suicide is the best option. It is good to see you agree.

Now for supposedly normal people who commit suicide, I dont see how all the life is wonderful statements and dogmas will ever change their mind. A certain # of people will always commit suicide despite religious, philosophical, familiy, and emotional attachments and beliefs. its for that fence sitter, who cant make up his/her mind. But still, its your life, if you want to end it, no one can stop you.

 

[Kenneth R.]

people who harbor such beliefs need psychological help.

no one can stop you, but are you saying no one should?

 

[Demiurge]

Quotes with which I agree:

To die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. Death of one's own free choice, death at the proper time, with a clear head and with joyfulness, consummated in the midst of children and witnesses: so that an actual leave-taking is possible while he who is leaving is still there. ~FW Nietzsche

life has carried some men with the greatest rapidity to the harbor, the harbor they were bound to reach even if they tarried on the way, while others it has fretted and harassed. To such a life, as you are aware, one should not always cling. For mere living is not a good, but living well. Accordingly, the wise man will live as long as he ought, not as long as he can. He will mark in what place, with whom, and how he is to conduct his existence, and what he is about to do. He always reflects concerning the quality not the quantity, of his life. As soon as there are many events in his life that give him trouble and disturb his peace of mind, he sets himself free. And this privilege is his, not only when the crisis is upon him, but as soon as Fortune seems to be playing him false; then he looks about carefully and sees whether he ought, or ought not, to end his life on that account. He holds that it makes no difference to him whether his taking-off be natural or self-inflicted, whether it comes later or earlier. he does not regard it with fear, as if it were a great loss; for no man can lose very much when but a driblet remains. It is not a question of dying earlier or later, but of dying well or ill. and dying well means escape from the danger of living ill. ~Seneca

 

[Kenneth R.]

life has carried some men with the greatest rapidity to the harbor, the harbor they were bound to reach even if they tarried on the way, while others it has fretted and harassed. To such a life, as you are aware, one should not always cling. For mere living is not a good, but living well. Accordingly, the wise man will live as long as he ought, not as long as he can. He will mark in what place, with whom, and how he is to conduct his existence, and what he is about to do. He always reflects concerning the quality not the quantity, of his life.

agree. quality of life is more important than longevity, but the best solution is a long period of quality is it not? thus i say to live as well as you can, and not forsake life for future opportunities will arise.

As soon as there are many events in his life that give him trouble and disturb his peace of mind, he sets himself free. And this privilege is his, not only when the crisis is upon him, but as soon as Fortune seems to be playing him false; then he looks about carefully and sees whether he ought, or ought not, to end his life on that account. He holds that it makes no difference to him whether his taking-off be natural or self-inflicted, whether it comes later or earlier. he does not regard it with fear, as if it were a great loss; for no man can lose very much when but a driblet remains. It is not a question of dying earlier or later, but of dying well or ill. and dying well means escape from the danger of living ill. ~Seneca

disagree. as i already stated, i believe taking one's own life is cowardice. either fear of their ailments, shame, or the future. they fear facing their problems, or fear their reputation has become weakness. cowardly.

 

[Demiurge]

I believe living though one doesn't want to is cowardice. It demonstrates fear of death. Terminating one's being is a display of control over it.

 

[Kenneth R.]

you could say it is displaying control over it, but also a loss of control as one immediately loses all control and dies. death should not be feared, nor sought.

 

[Demiurge]

Death isn't losing control in any conventional manner. It's ceasing to be. The word "control" cannot be applied to non-being as something lost. Such a condition is nothingness, it lacks the attributes associated with human being. As such, it's not being controlled, nor exercising control.

Death should be sought by those who no longer want to live.