Overrated 'Classics' (Review Thread: Lists are For Fags)

[Demilich]

Dude, grab your dictionary and look up "they." Collective mind? Now that would be when I jokingly posited the theory that they were the same poster, and possibly both pseudonyms of S.R. Prozac.

As to the notion that I'm somehow seeking out ways to belittle you, you could not be further from the truth. I realise that the first line of that post was a little harsh, and it doesn't really fit with what I was trying to express. However, despite what you percieve to be an unfailingly openminded attitude towards A.C. and Justin's opinions, some of your posts seem to indicate that you're not prepared to totally give up trying to sway them to your way of thinking. I think it was this exact excerpt that did it:

the philosophical aspect of music is not interpretted in the same way the aural aspects might be. analyzing the purpose behind a piece of music and treating the music as asecondary to the expression of an ideal is fine and all, but i don't think that should bleed over into the actual AURAL analysis of the music. If there's one thing i'm sure of, it's that AC doesn't agree with this notion. I think he should.

As to my suckling at the teet of A.C., as I've stated before, I simply have found genuine respect for a poster I used to loathe, and may simply be overreacting to my satisfaction with his recent changes in behaviour.

 

[Manbient]

you may notice i contradicted myself in that quote as well Sometimes i get mixed up with what exactly i'm trying to express. the bolded part should probably read more like "i think if he did he could enjoy more forms of music". It is my opinion that that enjoying music should be of high priority when listening to music, and i think seperating the philosophy from the actual musical content is one way of doing it in certain cases.

 

[Don Corleone]

As to my suckling at the teet of A.C., as I've stated before, I simply have found genuine respect for a poster I used to loathe

this also holds true for this forum, too, doesnt it? some time ago you were throwing shit on this forum and its users at another forum (royal carnage it was?) and now you are a regular poster here. is it one of your habits to lick back what you spat or change your tune all the time?

if this is the case, how can you expect people around you to give any credit to or believe in what you actually say?

 

[Don Corleone]

hey there we go:

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/royal-carnage/267183-so-i-browsing-opeth-forum.html?highlight=opeth

 

[dishcloth]

Here's my over-rated classic:

Metallica - And Justice For All

An album that Metallica fans slober over with glee. Well, at least the ones I know anyway. I find the album to boring, long and painful to sit through in one listening. The album does have it's moments, namely One, but for the most part, the album tries to be too technical, with actual songwriting losing out. Tracks such as Dyer's Eve and Blackened, aren't too bad, but aren't a patch on the classic Metallica tracks from Lightning or Puppets. I think it is pretty easy to see why One is the only steady song on the live setlist from this album.

The playing on this album is solid. Lars drums well, playing complex beats and interesting fills. Once again, I think this technicality does affect the songs, they can sound like a bit of a drum orgy at times, in particular, the title track. The guitar work is again very good, the album is full of decent solos and riffs. However, the lack of bass in the album is something that really annoys me, particularly because I am a bass player. To me, the music is really missing it. How can you mix the bass so low its inaudiable? Cliff would be turning in his grave. Obviously the melodic basslines of Orion have totally been ignored on this effort. Angry.

The production on this album really annoys me. That snare noise drives me insane. Obviously, this album is a showcase for Lars's, but couldn't they have got the drum sound right? I mean it sounds like he is playing a bin or something. Once again, the bass mix. Nothing else to mention.

6/10

Just my opinions. Discuss.

 

[hibernal_dream]

I'd agree with you dishcloth. AJFA is quite smashing if you've never heard metal before - the riffing technique and decidedly metal songwriting sums up metal. If you have heard proper metal, it can indeed be boring. It's quite simply extremely solid metal, but probably best left for beginners - it was my introduction to metal and I love it for that but I wouldn't overstate its greatness. I don't think I could sit through side 2 anymore (i originally got this on tape ). The bass doesn't bother me, actually I think the production is near perfect, except for the drums.

 

[Don Corleone]

If you have heard proper metal, it can indeed be boring.

if metallica's justice album isnt proper metal, would you please tell me what is? tristania?

 

[derbeder]

no, manowar

 

[Manbient]

AJFA is probably my favorite metallica album. I think metallica had a real flair for melodic songwriting, and the guitar tones are so unmistakable from that era. The reason i will always defend older metallica albums when the onslaught of criticism comes down on them is that i honestly DO think they were some of the best songwriters in metal. They really had an understanding of what "progresion" is, and wrote songs that really went places. They didn't adhere much to traditional song structure and their songs usually had quite a few riffs in them... all of them usually great.

I didn't really feel AJFA to be technical to the point of distraction, either. It doesn't really seem all that different to MoP to me, just a bit more "progressive". I think it might even be the most melodic of the early metallica albums. Anyway i would probably agree about the bass, but i so rarely listen for that that it doesn't change the listening experience much for me.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

So it doesn't bother you that it sounds exactly like what it is, a barely coherent mish mash of riffs composed seperately and randomly assigned to songs? That fake drum sound doesn't make you want to cover your ears? Are you telling me you don't cringe when you hear the "OheeeOh!" crap from The Wizard of Oz or the painfully embarassing teen angst of "Dyer's Eve"? Seeing the plagiarized lyrics of "To Live is to Die" attributed to Cliff Burton doesn't make the bile rise in your throat?

Is that what you're saying?

 

[Manbient]

yep!

 

[derbeder]

no he is actually saying that he will henceforth conspire with the dark legions and crown varg the king of all things metul

 

[Manbient]

o ya, that 2

vag was a musical GEENIE!!

 

[Sadguru]

Unless I'm mistaken, I think Mumblefood intends are to find a common agreement regarding the "appreciation of music" topic, which is very complex. Together, I'm pretty sure we can come up with something more mature than "You have your opinion and I have mine. End."

Can we get back on the subject?

seperating the philosophy from the actual musical content is one way of doing it in certain cases.

On one hand, I think there's a general misunderstanding in regard of the word philosophy. Genuine philosophy's biggest ideal is objectivity. If we agree that music is a subjective experience, how can the 2 meet eachother?

 

[Armageddon's Child]

I see you failed your intro philosophy course, guru.

 

[Sadguru]

I see you failed your intro philosophy course, guru.

I didn't. Why insults?
Prove me wrong.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

You're aware that most philosophers (with the exception of some in the analytic school) since Nietzsche have at the very least maintained a skeptical position vis-à-vis objectivity, with many (perhaps most) denying that it is possible at all, right? It's called 'anti-foundationalism', and it's not even a new idea. As Nietzsche rightly pointed out, it was central to the thought of many of the pre-Socratic philosophers as well.

 

[Sadguru]

You're aware that most philosophers (with the exception of some in the analytic school) since Nietzsche have at the very least maintained a skeptical position vis-à-vis objectivity, with many (perhaps most) denying that it is possible at all. It's called 'anti-foundationalism', and it's not even a new idea. As Nietzsche rightly pointed out, it was central to the thought of many of the pre-Socratic philosophers as well.

Skeptical position vis-à-vis objectivity? Trying to bite your own teeth...

If what you say is true, Nietzsche was trying to be objective about "objectivity". It's an hypocritical philosophy really. No less superficial than the cultural relativists' "All truths are relative, no universal value judgments are possible."

 

[Justin S.]

Sadguru,

You are way in over your head here. I'd suggest not making unfounded and specualtive claims on something so broad as "human thought", which you clearly have not studied carefully.

 

[prowlergrig]

ajfa is a killer album, period.
they did base their songs on putting together separately written riffs, but their arrangements worked wonders.. i really think that was one of lar$' and james' strongest points.
didn't know the lyrics in to live is to die weren't cliffs, i never cared for them in particular anyway. it's a crushing song, that's all that matters.