Overrated 'Classics' (Review Thread: Lists are For Fags)

How does the use of big words always translate to "intellectual posturing" to those who a) don't get the big words or b) aren't interested in discussing things in that way? Fuck that! I'll talk how I damn well please!

Shut up, I'm fine with big words, I'm not fine with people who carefully compose each post using their thesaurus to attempt to look the most intelligent and come off as a smug POS with horribly awkward language usage. And I'm especially not fine with any morons that use their dimestore knowledge of philosophy and try to apply it to music and argue over the "objective" values of music. You're not the problem in this thread, some of the posts just before mine saying that were.
 
My frustration with the nazi moderation of this forum applies much more to the actual Opeth board than this off-topic one. You'll note my recent forays into the Opeth board have been met with some hostility by Mr Samsara, leading to my choice to mostly confine myself to this oh-so-lovable place.


I guess you're referring to this. Hostile? ... Nazi? ... :erk:

And here I thought your no longer harping about the subject meant that you understood how this place worked. You know I moderate the sub as well.... didn't you?
 
How does the use of big words always translate to "intellectual posturing" to those who a) don't get the big words or b) aren't interested in discussing things in that way? Fuck that! I'll talk how I damn well please!
I don't give a shit how you talk or write. I wasn't directing anything at you. It's about the music, man. Fuckin' Period. Any one with a brain( and knows how to use it) should never be intimidated by, as you say, "big words", that's why they have fuckin' dictionaries. Maybe some would do themseves well by looking up words that they don't understand or have never seen. So, any way you talk, or anyone for that matter, means zero to me. It's only about the MUSIC.
 
Previously, I spoke of the "ontological significance" of music, as a form of art. Below, I will attempt to explain this in greater detail (drawing heavily on Heidegger's writings) while avoiding excessive and cumbersome terminology that may be unfamiliar (however some precision and clarification is necessary [I will introduce a few terms]).

I raised the issue of "ontological significance" to contrast it with the common understanding and appraisal of music and art in general, which concerns only the "thingly" aspect of works of art and views them as sensory objects (which are thought via "aesthetics"). One of Heidegger's examples from Being and Time displays this opposition. A merely descriptive ("ontic") account of a hammer speaks of its weight, size, form/shape, material, quality of manufacture- its metal head, wooden handle, etc. An ontological understanding reveals the hammer as a tool which hammers, as equipment for building, as a creation of man that aids him in constructing his dwellings.

The ontic, or merely descriptive account, is not "incorrect" if acknowledged as an aspect of something's being- the hammer certainly is of metal, wood, etc.- but arbitrarily bounded and woefully mistaken if proclaimed as the whole of its being (the hammer is not only pieces of metal, or wood). That it is not limited to its descriptive components is revealed by its name- it is called "hammer" (not "metal and wood") because it is for hammering, its thingly qualities serve in an equipmental fashion that is significant to man. This significance cannot be grasped by an ontic (descriptive) account, but only through an ontological understanding.

How does this apply to music as art?

The evaluation of art via aesthetics is an ontic approach. In visual art, we speak of elements. In music, pitch, rhythm, timbre, texture, dynamics, composition, etc. serve this same purpose. All these descriptions are of the thingly aspects of visual or sonorous "objects"- they classify, categorize, and evaluate the sensory aspects of art, they dispose. In contrast, the ontological understanding discloses the significance of the art as an art-work, which is not merely a collection of pigments, lines, or sonic disturbances. Nor does a cheap appeal to its "emotive" qualities break out of the ontic- this can be just as calculated and descriptive as the purely formal physical descriptions (however, evocation of honest and fundamental moods is certainly a part of art [wonder, daring, anxiety, affection, etc.]. I am distinguishing this from the cynically calculated manipulation of popular "emotional" responses).

Unfortunately, our direct parallel with the hammer fails us at this point- the ontological significance of the hammer is equipment- surely a work of art cannot be viewed in such crude terms, even if art-objects are commonly used as such (even to the point of art being erroneously conflated with equipmental "use"). "What is art?" This is certainly a complex "riddle" and one that I cannot presume to "answer" here. However, the example of the hammer points us in its direction, so that we may come closer to an understanding of art.

The ontological significance of the hammer is revealed when we pick it up and use it for hammering, when we are engaged with it as equipment. Similarly, we will come much closer to art if we comport ourselves not merely to ontic aspects of the medium of art, but the work of the artwork itself.

Art is not a mere thing, a conglomeration of sensory experience. These elements compose the thingly aspects that allow us to experience the art (they are the vehicle for art) but they are not art itself. Similarly, the metal and wood of a hammer allow us to grasp it, provide the rigidity and leverage necessary for its task, but are not "hammer" or equipment individually, or as a union of "metal + wood".

Art is not merely equipment (either of the physical or psychological). If it were, "art" as a concept and term would be superfluous, as it would hold no higher status than any other tool, be of no more significance than our lowly hammer- certainly this is not the case and this view seems unpalatable however cynical we may be. Art may be abused as equipment by "culture", the advertising and "art" industries, or connoisseurship (the elevation of aesthetics to a science) but it historically serves a different purpose, despite all attempts to render it as equipment. It is by its nature un-economical and "useless" (equipmentaly), and serves unexplainable (or "irrational") spiritual, religious, communicative, symbolic, conceptual, or emotional forces. When we comport ourselves to artwork in an equipmental fashion, its meaning flees us- we are left with a repulsive and yet numb feeling.

It is inappropriate to look for significance of art in a thingly (ontic) or equipmental (incorrect ontological reference) orientation. If I cannot say decisively what the "correct" orientation is (if there is even such a "thing"), I can at least point to it: the art-work discloses a world. World is not thought here as something limited terrestrially, a collection of things (beings) that are, nor some high flown fantasy. The artwork must open up a space for more primordial thoughts and moods, to preserve strife (which does not mean a mere quarreling). Here I am straying into very difficult territory, and am drawing too directly from Heidegger's The Origin of the Work of Art (which has heavily influenced this entire writing of mine, but I have deviated from it significantly until now). I will leave this difficult ground to more accomplished thinkers, lest I merely mimic their words (however unsatisfactory it may be to you all, I cannot furnish a robust account of art or our relation to it- this is not due to a lack of thoughtfulness, but the difficulty in communicating such things, and my limitations with language. I have pointed in its direction, and I trust this is enough for now).

Too often, an ontological understanding of art is used to dismiss aesthetics and the ontic approach in general. I think this is too strong of a reaction, and a misunderstanding of how we have access to art. The vehicle, the aesthetic, is indeed necessary for the communication and disclosing of the art- it tempers it, gives it its character, and mirrors the art's disposition. One would not choose Gorguts thinking it discloses a world in the same manner as Bach's organ works. Clearly, aesthetics is very important. However, our understanding must not be bound or limited to it, and this is the purpose of introducing discussion of "ontological significance"- not to negate the role of aesthetics, but to insist that it alone cannot be called art, as this misunderstanding abandons art.
 
Previously, I spoke of the "ontological significance" of music, as a form of art. Below, I will attempt to explain this in greater detail (drawing heavily on Heidegger's writings) while avoiding excessive and cumbersome terminology that may be unfamiliar (however some precision and clarification is necessary [I will introduce a few terms]).

I raised the issue of "ontological significance" to contrast it with the common understanding and appraisal of music and art in general, which concerns only the "thingly" aspect of works of art and views them as sensory objects (which are thought via "aesthetics"). One of Heidegger's examples from Being and Time displays this opposition. A merely descriptive ("ontic") account of a hammer speaks of its weight, size, form/shape, material, quality of manufacture- its metal head, wooden handle, etc. An ontological understanding reveals the hammer as a tool which hammers, as equipment for building, as a creation of man that aids him in constructing his dwellings.

The ontic, or merely descriptive account, is not "incorrect" if acknowledged as an aspect of something's being- the hammer certainly is of metal, wood, etc.- but arbitrarily bounded and woefully mistaken if proclaimed as the whole of its being (the hammer is not only pieces of metal, or wood). That it is not limited to its descriptive components is revealed by its name- it is called "hammer" (not "metal and wood") because it is for hammering, its thingly qualities serve in an equipmental fashion that is significant to man. This significance cannot be grasped by an ontic (descriptive) account, but only through an ontological understanding.

How does this apply to music as art?

The evaluation of art via aesthetics is an ontic approach. In visual art, we speak of elements. In music, pitch, rhythm, timbre, texture, dynamics, composition, etc. serve this same purpose. All these descriptions are of the thingly aspects of visual or sonorous "objects"- they classify, categorize, and evaluate the sensory aspects of art, they dispose. In contrast, the ontological understanding discloses the significance of the art as an art-work, which is not merely a collection of pigments, lines, or sonic disturbances. Nor does a cheap appeal to its "emotive" qualities break out of the ontic- this can be just as calculated and descriptive as the purely formal physical descriptions (however, evocation of honest and fundamental moods is certainly a part of art [wonder, daring, anxiety, affection, etc.]. I am distinguishing this from the cynically calculated manipulation of popular "emotional" responses).

Unfortunately, our direct parallel with the hammer fails us at this point- the ontological significance of the hammer is equipment- surely a work of art cannot be viewed in such crude terms, even if art-objects are commonly used as such (even to the point of art being erroneously conflated with equipmental "use"). "What is art?" This is certainly a complex "riddle" and one that I cannot presume to "answer" here. However, the example of the hammer points us in its direction, so that we may come closer to an understanding of art.

The ontological significance of the hammer is revealed when we pick it up and use it for hammering, when we are engaged with it as equipment. Similarly, we will come much closer to art if we comport ourselves not merely to ontic aspects of the medium of art, but the work of the artwork itself.

Art is not a mere thing, a conglomeration of sensory experience. These elements compose the thingly aspects that allow us to experience the art (they are the vehicle for art) but they are not art itself. Similarly, the metal and wood of a hammer allow us to grasp it, provide the rigidity and leverage necessary for its task, but are not "hammer" or equipment individually, or as a union of "metal + wood".

Art is not merely equipment (either of the physical or psychological). If it were, "art" as a concept and term would be superfluous, as it would hold no higher status than any other tool, be of no more significance than our lowly hammer- certainly this is not the case and this view seems unpalatable however cynical we may be. Art may be abused as equipment by "culture", the advertising and "art" industries, or connoisseurship (the elevation of aesthetics to a science) but it historically serves a different purpose, despite all attempts to render it as equipment. It is by its nature un-economical and "useless" (equipmentaly), and serves unexplainable (or "irrational") spiritual, religious, communicative, symbolic, conceptual, or emotional forces. When we comport ourselves to artwork in an equipmental fashion, its meaning flees us- we are left with a repulsive and yet numb feeling.

It is inappropriate to look for significance of art in a thingly (ontic) or equipmental (incorrect ontological reference) orientation. If I cannot say decisively what the "correct" orientation is (if there is even such a "thing"), I can at least point to it: the art-work discloses a world. World is not thought here as something limited terrestrially, a collection of things (beings) that are, nor some high flown fantasy. The artwork must open up a space for more primordial thoughts and moods, to preserve strife (which does not mean a mere quarreling). Here I am straying into very difficult territory, and am drawing too directly from Heidegger's The Origin of the Work of Art (which has heavily influenced this entire writing of mine, but I have deviated from it significantly until now). I will leave this difficult ground to more accomplished thinkers, lest I merely mimic their words (however unsatisfactory it may be to you all, I cannot furnish a robust account of art or our relation to it- this is not due to a lack of thoughtfulness, but the difficulty in communicating such things, and my limitations with language. I have pointed in its direction, and I trust this is enough for now).

Too often, an ontological understanding of art is used to dismiss aesthetics and the ontic approach in general. I think this is too strong of a reaction, and a misunderstanding of how we have access to art. The vehicle, the aesthetic, is indeed necessary for the communication and disclosing of the art- it tempers it, gives it its character, and mirrors the art's disposition. One would not choose Gorguts thinking it discloses a world in the same manner as Bach's organ works. Clearly, aesthetics is very important. However, our understanding must not be bound or limited to it, and this is the purpose of introducing discussion of "ontological significance"- not to negate the role of aesthetics, but to insist that it alone cannot be called art, as this misunderstanding abandons art.

tldr
 
Art is not a mere thing, a conglomeration of sensory experience. These elements compose the thingly aspects that allow us to experience the art (they are the vehicle for art) but they are not art itself. Similarly, the metal and wood of a hammer allow us to grasp it, provide the rigidity and leverage necessary for its task, but are not "hammer" or equipment individually, or as a union of "metal + wood".

Previously, I spoke of the "ontological significance" of music, as a form of art. Below, I will attempt to explain this in greater detail (drawing heavily on Heidegger's writings) while avoiding excessive and cumbersome terminology that may be unfamiliar (however some precision and clarification is necessary [I will introduce a few terms]).

The ontic, or merely descriptive account, is not "incorrect" if acknowledged as an aspect of something's being- the hammer certainly is of metal, wood, etc.- but arbitrarily bounded and woefully mistaken if proclaimed as the whole of its being (the hammer is not only pieces of metal, or wood). That it is not limited to its descriptive components is revealed by its name- it is called "hammer" (not "metal and wood") because it is for hammering, its thingly qualities serve in an equipmental fashion that is significant to man. This significance cannot be grasped by an ontic (descriptive) account, but only through an ontological understanding.

I raised the issue of "ontological significance" to contrast it with the common understanding and appraisal of music and art in general, which concerns only the "thingly" aspect of works of art and views them as sensory objects (which are thought via "aesthetics"). One of Heidegger's examples from Being and Time displays this opposition. A merely descriptive ("ontic") account of a hammer speaks of its weight, size, form/shape, material, quality of manufacture- its metal head, wooden handle, etc. An ontological understanding reveals the hammer as a tool which hammers, as equipment for building, as a creation of man that aids him in constructing his dwellings.

The evaluation of art via aesthetics is an ontic approach. In visual art, we speak of elements. In music, pitch, rhythm, timbre, texture, dynamics, composition, etc. serve this same purpose. All these descriptions are of the thingly aspects of visual or sonorous "objects"- they classify, categorize, and evaluate the sensory aspects of art, they dispose. In contrast, the ontological understanding discloses the significance of the art as an art-work, which is not merely a collection of pigments, lines, or sonic disturbances. Nor does a cheap appeal to its "emotive" qualities break out of the ontic- this can be just as calculated and descriptive as the purely formal physical descriptions (however, evocation of honest and fundamental moods is certainly a part of art [wonder, daring, anxiety, affection, etc.]. I am distinguishing this from the cynically calculated manipulation of popular "emotional" responses).

Unfortunately, our direct parallel with the hammer fails us at this point- the ontological significance of the hammer is equipment- surely a work of art cannot be viewed in such crude terms, even if art-objects are commonly used as such (even to the point of art being erroneously conflated with equipmental "use"). "What is art?" This is certainly a complex "riddle" and one that I cannot presume to "answer" here. However, the example of the hammer points us in its direction, so that we may come closer to an understanding of art.

Too often, an ontological understanding of art is used to dismiss aesthetics and the ontic approach in general. I think this is too strong of a reaction, and a misunderstanding of how we have access to art. The vehicle, the aesthetic, is indeed necessary for the communication and disclosing of the art- it tempers it, gives it its character, and mirrors the art's disposition. One would not choose Gorguts thinking it discloses a world in the same manner as Bach's organ works. Clearly, aesthetics is very important. However, our understanding must not be bound or limited to it, and this is the purpose of introducing discussion of "ontological significance"- not to negate the role of aesthetics, but to insist that it alone cannot be called art, as this misunderstanding abandons art.

The ontological significance of the hammer is revealed when we pick it up and use it for hammering, when we are engaged with it as equipment. Similarly, we will come much closer to art if we comport ourselves not merely to ontic aspects of the medium of art, but the work of the artwork itself.

How does this apply to music as art?

Art is not merely equipment (either of the physical or psychological). If it were, "art" as a concept and term would be superfluous, as it would hold no higher status than any other tool, be of no more significance than our lowly hammer- certainly this is not the case and this view seems unpalatable however cynical we may be. Art may be abused as equipment by "culture", the advertising and "art" industries, or connoisseurship (the elevation of aesthetics to a science) but it historically serves a different purpose, despite all attempts to render it as equipment. It is by its nature un-economical and "useless" (equipmentaly), and serves unexplainable (or "irrational") spiritual, religious, communicative, symbolic, conceptual, or emotional forces. When we comport ourselves to artwork in an equipmental fashion, its meaning flees us- we are left with a repulsive and yet numb feeling.

It is inappropriate to look for significance of art in a thingly (ontic) or equipmental (incorrect ontological reference) orientation. If I cannot say decisively what the "correct" orientation is (if there is even such a "thing"), I can at least point to it: the art-work discloses a world. World is not thought here as something limited terrestrially, a collection of things (beings) that are, nor some high flown fantasy. The artwork must open up a space for more primordial thoughts and moods, to preserve strife (which does not mean a mere quarreling). Here I am straying into very difficult territory, and am drawing too directly from Heidegger's The Origin of the Work of Art (which has heavily influenced this entire writing of mine, but I have deviated from it significantly until now). I will leave this difficult ground to more accomplished thinkers, lest I merely mimic their words (however unsatisfactory it may be to you all, I cannot furnish a robust account of art or our relation to it- this is not due to a lack of thoughtfulness, but the difficulty in communicating such things, and my limitations with language. I have pointed in its direction, and I trust this is enough for now).
 
Or, to put it another way, the 'art' lies in the relationship between the emotional, spiritual, or 'ideological' content and the way content is conveyed aesthetically.
 
Dissection - The Somberlain

somberlainfront.jpg

In music, the spirit of youth often expresses itself in restless innovation that forges ahead beyond the limits of a young band's skill. Dissection's debut, The Somberlain, is an album overflowing with youthful creativity, but also burdened by a youthful lack of discipline. And yet, while it lacks the refined craft of the band's later releases like Storm of the Light's Bane, it possesses a passion, inventiveness, and authenticity sorely lacking in the albums to follow.

The term 'blackened death' metal is often thrown about liberally, with no real concern for its accuracy or the veracity of its usage, but the phrase is aptly used when applied to The Somberlain. By applying black metal technique to a riff lexicon steeped in the traditions of Swedish death metal (with occasional nods to classic doom metal in the vein of first album Candlemass or perhaps Pagan Altar), Dissection forged a truly hybrid style that married the melodic fluidity of the former to the percussive and structural complexity of the latter.

While The Somberlain occasionally genuflects in the direction of traditional heavy metal (most evident in the lead work), the overwhelming NWOBHM influence found on Storm of the Light's Bane is notably absent (and mercifully so). Instead, it features songs epic in construction and spirit (and sometimes in length as well), built from riffs that, while often resembling the work of God Macabre or contemporaries Necrophobic, are laid out so as to suggest the reconstructive spirit of black metal rather than the deconstructive ethos of death metal. Similarly, despite the frequent twists and turns of rhythm, each piece is defined in narrative by melody rather than percussion, with variations of mood suggested primarily by neo-Baroque acoustic breaks and shifts in riff texture rather than by time changes (which, while numerous, tend to be fluid rather than abrupt).

Where this material is strongest is in its ability to capture an eternal instant and hold it for a moment's contemplation. Indeed, much of this material is simply beautiful, despite the darkness at its core. That these ecstatic moments are accomplished with a minimum of the cloying, Maiden-style harmonies and bouncy rock rhythms that undermine Dissection's subsequent releases only enhances their power. Nodtveidt, too, is in fine form, thankfully finding a happy medium between vocal formlessness and the sort of sing-song preciousness that made later material like "Thorns of Crimson Death" almost unlistenable. Here, he imparts his vocal lines with a sense of driving rhythm that compliment the music without simply doubling the dominant cadence in boring, anthemic fashion.

The Somberlain is far from perfect, however. At times, these songs bog down, and, like much of the death metal that inspired them, collapse under the weight of their own overly elaborate musical embellishments, their lines of narrative hopelessly fragmented by a riff salad approach that needlessly burdens the compositions with rococo adornment, rendering some pieces more effective in revealing moments of insight than constructing a coherent creative world to explore in depth. But, like an 18th century chateau, the formal beauty of most of The Somberlain makes it an album worth visiting, despite occasional lapses of taste and editorial judgment.

8.5/10
 
I suggest everyone watch the DISSECTION (dvd) tracks from the Somberlain, Storm, and Reinkaos are performed quite flawlessly. Jon N truly proved he was at the peak of his talent and could peform his songs with heart, skill, and emotion justifying every riff, note, and solo. Everything from the production and sound are top notch, a timeless show that embeds Dissection in the history books of black metal. 9/10