Overrated 'Classics' (Review Thread: Lists are For Fags)

[Sadguru]

Sadguru,

You are way in over your head here. I'd suggest not making unfounded and specualtive claims on something so broad as "human thought", which you clearly have not studied carefully.

Justin, the comment wasn't speculative. What you basically say is: "You don't know what you're talking about". I'll remind you that we were talking of music appreciation and its relation to philosophy. I'm not particularly knowledgeable nor I am erudite. I won't try to prove that I'm not ignorant, so, again, please, can we get back to the subject?

What is philosophy for you and how can it enhence the musical experience? Can you give me a concrete, daily-life exemple?

*you might have posted the answer to this question in a previous post, if so, would you care copy/paste the explanation here?

edit: Same question also applies to you AC

 

[wankerness]

This thread is embarrassing. This level of intellectual posturing has no place on this forum, as 95% of the members aren't here to pretend that thinking Varg is a brilliant visionary and being smart aren't mutually exclusive. And any amount of intellectualism falls to pieces when coming from the mouth of someone who grades music based partially on whether or not it has influence from african-american music, cause they believe anything from blacks is inherently inferior, cause they are just that smart.

 

[BloodSword]

Fuck, FUCK,FUCK. I feel like Larry-the-cable guy. I'm staying in the shallow waters on this, fuck the deep-end. But, I must say, and I'm not defending A.C., because he certainly does'nt need me to defend him. Every time I've asked a question of him regarding music, he has always been very informative in his answers to me. Not once, condescending or arrogant. And I believe(while not aggreeing with every thing he says) that he is very astute in his knowledge and credible. Unlike one who believes that having "enough records to fill a guest house" makes him credible and beyond reproach. I know, but, I just could'nt resist, the guys an easy target.

 

[wankerness]

Fuck, FUCK,FUCK. I feel like Larry-the-cable guy. I'm staying in the shallow waters on this, fuck the deep-end. But, I must say, and I'm not defending A.C., because he certainly does'nt need me to defend him. Every time I've asked a question of him regarding music, he has always been very informative in his answers to me. Not once, condescending or arrogant. And I believe(while not aggreeing with every thing he says) that he is very astute in his knowledge and credible. Unlike one who believes that having "enough records to fill a guest house" makes him credible and beyond reproach. I know, but, I just could'nt resist, the guys an easy target.

Yeah, he's not a dumbass, and he has a lot of knowledge on some topics and some interesting ideas (I liked the suggestion that Tolkienn should have adhered to a pagan instead of christian worldview in LOTR), but he's still a militant racist and therefore I can't respect the guy. He got banned about a month ago for some tirade about how something or another was worse than the karelian isthmus cause of the "my pals music influence," I dunno why he's back now.

 

[Justin S.]

I don't know AC well enough to say definitively, but I'd bet that his views on "race" are quite a bit more complicated than that. It seems that many of the posters from ANUS are greatly misunderstood in this regard- the topic of race/demographics is the current taboo, which explains the responses they receive for opening it up to questioning (although, I think their conclusions are generally very flawed).

 

[Death_To_False_Metal]

Punk, post punk, new wave, posty new wave : ALL.

 

[Justin S.]

Justin, the comment wasn't speculative. What you basically say is: "You don't know what you're talking about". I'll remind you that we were talking of music appreciation and its relation to philosophy. I'm not particularly knowledgeable nor I am erudite. I won't try to prove that I'm not ignorant, so, again, please, can we get back to the subject?

What is philosophy for you and how can it enhence the musical experience? Can you give me a concrete, daily-life exemple?

*you might have posted the answer to this question in a previous post, if so, would you care copy/paste the explanation here?

edit: Same question also applies to you AC

Sadguru,

You jumped right in, blazing away at notions that you do not have a good handle on. Your statements on "objectivity" as the prime ideal of philosophy and your careless tossing about of Nietzsche and "relativism" are fundamentally flawed. Your request for others to "prove you wrong" is also problematic, as the burden of soundness is on you (the one asserting), not your audience. If you want a rigorous debate on philosophical matters have a look at The Philosopher.

Concerning my stance on music, philosophy, and art in general: I do not feel inclined to type something specifically for this thread (nor do I think a thorough response would be appreciated here). However, I might scrounge something at a later time.

 

[all_sins_undone]

Sadguru,

You are way in over your head here. I'd suggest not making unfounded and specualtive claims on something so broad as "human thought", which you clearly have not studied carefully.

period.

 

[Sadguru]

You jumped right in, blazing away at notions that you do not have a good handle on. Your statements on "objectivity" as the prime ideal of philosophy and your careless tossing about of Nietzsche and "relativism" are fundamentally flawed. Your request for others to "prove you wrong" is also problematic, as the burden of soundness is on you (the one asserting), not your audience. If you want a rigorous debate on philosophical matters have a look at The Philosopher.

Ok, let's have a closer look. How is it flawed? So far, your accusations have been without any kind of substance. Now's your chance to fill that blank.

Concerning my stance on music, philosophy, and art in general: I do not feel inclined to type something specifically for this thread (nor do I think a thorough response would be appreciated here). However, I might scrounge something at a later time.

of course.

 

[affinityband]

rofl justin s is such a fag. probably a 60 year old hermit who lives in a basement surrounded by wilbur smith books and old newspapers.

 

[all_sins_undone]

whatever he's surrounded by, it's always fun to see him beat the living hell out of sadguru

 

[Demilich]

this also holds true for this forum, too, doesnt it? some time ago you were throwing shit on this forum and its users at another forum (royal carnage it was?) and now you are a regular poster here. is it one of your habits to lick back what you spat or change your tune all the time?

if this is the case, how can you expect people around you to give any credit to or believe in what you actually say?

My frustration with the nazi moderation of this forum applies much more to the actual Opeth board than this off-topic one. You'll note my recent forays into the Opeth board have been met with some hostility by Mr Samsara, leading to my choice to mostly confine myself to this oh-so-lovable place.

There are some very insightful & knowledgeable posters here, who unlike yourself choose to discuss music rather than attack posters for something as utterly pathetic as their choice to return to a forum following a period of absence. I bet you felt wonderful as you typed those scathing words into your browser, taking advantage of surely your only platform for feeling superior to other humans. Keep up the good work!

 

[Stimuli]

Im a philosophy student myself... 3rd year... and i must say that this all sounds really fuckin stupid... this isnt metaphysics...its music...and while music can have more value than just its composition... to talk about its "ontological" importance is just intellectual posturing...

tell me... what is the "ontological" significance of Stevie Ray Vaughan???

I'm at work.. so perhaps I will continue this when I get home. But for now. answer me that...

does SRV have some sort of transcendant worldly value... no... he just rips it up with pentatonics. and it sounds good...

theres more to say but i gotta go.

 

[Manbient]

Stimuli, I think what might happen here is responses explaining how SRV ISN'T "ontologically significant", and thus that might be a reason not to like him. Possibly. Who knows, i'm not keen on this kind of exploration of music... at least not to that degree.

 

[Demilich]

I'm thinking that the ontological importance of music is a very personal experience, and very difficult to express in a way that doesn't sound stupid. I've noted that when reading such descriptions of music as those presented in the original post of this thread, it is beneficial to acknowledge at least somewhat that the language used describes only what this music means to the listener who has written the text.


Edit: I know that in my case, music is very important to the essence of my being and existence. Whether I have simply chosen to make it so by my dedication to listening to and exploring new possibilities or whether my love of music is indicative of some deeper connection between organized sound and the human mind, I don't know.

 

[prowlergrig]

(I liked the suggestion that Tolkienn should have adhered to a pagan instead of christian worldview in LOTR)

i would have too, if i hadn't read that idea in a varg interview some time ago

 

[Stimuli]

I believe as much as the next guy that music... truly great music... enriches our spiritual lives and all that jazz...

but to claim that ability for a specific genre of music is absurd. furthermore, to claim that only your deductions about music can figure out what music has these qualities and what music doesnt is ridiculous. surely, better arguements can be made for specific genres, but what really matters is that the music is genuine and thought-out...it could be Phish, The Roots, Sacramentum, Refused etc...we all get off on different things...

so A.C or anyone for that matter has their right to debate and claim certain things about certain music...i like his reviews and get good information from them... but Ive learned recently that any elitist attitude about music is stupid beyond description...

no one can tell me that Stevie Ray Vaughan (when he was young and not addicted to coke) was "bad music" in any sense. It is skillfull, rhythmic, most importantly genuine... that motherfucker played with more passion than most musicians period. and it was catchy too...which isnt a necessity but whatever...

to say that he wasnt good because he didnt reinvent a genre, didnt have trippy ambient noises, somber self-examing lyrics or whatever that it wasnt great music...and that music touched a lot of people and made millions want to pick up a guitar...

now what really made me post was this whole business about looking at music for its ontological value... which was brought up without even considering the conext of the word and how it should be applied... are you claiming that music is a "first cause" or some universal... or some set or kind or what have you... you should really make it clear what it is you mean before any discussion regarding philosophy of music should be taken on.

 

[Manbient]

that confused me as well, and his response didn't really make it clearer either.

 

[BloodSword]

Imagine if you will, a life with NO MUSIC, that is the music that you as an individual love and appreciate. Regardless of genre, the music that YOU LOVE!! And if you honestly reflected and gave this serious thought,then I say all of this "intellectual posturing" is beyond redundant. For me, when it's all said and done it's all about the MUSIC and nothing else. Peace. Now, I will go and burn one end to end.

 

[Demilich]

How does the use of big words always translate to "intellectual posturing" to those who a) don't get the big words or b) aren't interested in discussing things in that way? Fuck that! I'll talk how I damn well please!