Pantera vs Slayer
- Thread starter Whiplash402
- Start date
Tyler Durden
Terrorist
Drokk said:
I really dig Pants, and I was lucky enough to catch them live many times in their career & they always delivered a brutal show (even when Phil was at his worst).
However, I tend to think more realistically... Regardless of the quality of music that both bands produce(d) - Which band has sold the most albums globally? Which band has had the longest career (and are still going strong today)? I would say by far that Slayer have influenced more bands than Pantera. Sure Pants may have inspired some latter bands to a certain degree on their own, but it'll be nothing near the magnitude of what Slayer have acheived throughout their career. The newer bands you mentioned will probably have many influences & I very much doubt that they would deem Pantera as their only source of inspiration.
OK, you've been into both bands for years & have a more levelled opinion on this whole charade. I know you probably think that Dime being dead doesn't affect peoples opinions, but it honestly does. Maybe not to you personally, but to many others - it always inevitably does. Look at Jimi Hendrix & Curt Nobrain... we both know it would be Hendrix that had the most talent of the two (as he knew & played more than 3 chords coherently), but the hype surrounding Nobrain in the press has many people believing otherwise. It always happens - it was widely reported that the moment it was announced Dime was killed - Pantera had a significant upsurge in album sales. No need to wonder why there... It's because people who ordinarily never gave a shit about the band were caught up in the hype in the press (just like Nobrain & any other musician that dies before their time) about the now 'legendary' Dimebag, and went out and bought their back catalogue to pretend they're lifelong fans of the band since the beginning, and they're 'down' with the Pants. Pathetic.
The first thing that enters someone's mind when the word Pantera is mentioned is, Dimebag. Why? Because the media made 'his' name bigger than the band because through no fault of his own - he's no longer with us.
Don't get me wrong. I love Pantera! I also think Dime was a killer shredder - but compared to other guitarists I know of - he doesn't even come close to their ability. Some people just follow blindly by other peoples opinions. I talk to quite a few younger guys in the scene and ask them what their fave guitarist is and suchlike, and some of them surprise the hell out me by saying, Hendrix. I then ask them why (as it's a bit strange for one so young to have such clarity in their opinion of a generation they never grew up with)... and they don't really have an answer. So I dig a little deeper and ask how they discovered Hendrix music or whatever, and they say, "Oh... my big cousin gave me the Axis: Bold As Love album when I was younger and he told me this guy was the best guitarist that ever lived". Bingo! That's where the opinion originated. Even although there are guitarists today - that can totally surpass the talent of these dead zygotes, some people would rather stay trapped & exist in an era handed to them on a plate - instead of going out and discovering for themselves.
If you truly believe that the first 3 Pants albums are the angriest & heaviest Metal albums ever made - please forgive my impertinence - but I think you may need to get out more...
P.S. the only shit album Slayer have ever done was Diabolus In Musica, and it was only for the reason that Jeff 'fan of Coal Chamber' Hanneman wrote over 80% of it. Kerry King thankfully took control of God Hates Us All, and it contains some of the most seething hatred lyrical content & soul eroding riffs put to CD. The entire concept of that album (including the cover) is pure sinister & violent mayhem. It may be worth digging a little deeper understanding into the lyrics and listening to how they're delivered & the atmosphere of the music enhancing them to fully connect with it. Give it a chance... it's the best album they've done since Seasons...
Tyler Durden
Terrorist
Tyler Durden
Terrorist
Tyler Durden said:
With this reasoning you just made Cobain better than Hendrix and contradicted yourself. I'm pretty sure Nirvana was outselling Hendrix before Kurt killed himself.
Tyler Durden
Terrorist
dd316 said:
Maybe I did... but I couldn't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about either artist. It proves my point though about the power of the media influencing album sales... there's no accounting for taste.
I still maintain that Slayer (whether you wish to acknowledge it or not) have influenced more bands (including Pantera), in the Metal scene.
I'll acknowledge it, but you also have to remember that Slayer's been around much longer than Pantera, more time = more impressions. Pantera didn't really start anything new, whereas Slayer was on the ground floor of what heavy metal became at that time. Pantera got their props for keeping metal alive through the "alternative" years by moving it forward, where Slayer were still chugging out the same stuff that made them stand out over a decade before.Tyler Durden said:
Tyler Durden
Terrorist
dd316 said:
I'm not sure what point you're putting across here. Is it that the moment Pantera came on the scene that Slayer became totally invalid in the public eye & Pantera totally dominated the scene? That would be a very laughable concept.
Slayer are pretty much of the opinion of what isn't broken - doesn't need fixed. I don't think they had anything to prove. I've watched them since the beginning of their career, be laughed at and ridiculed by the media. Slayer???? Wahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... oh... please! Surely the worst band since Venom? Not even when Reign In Blood came out did the press let up their barrage of insults to the band. Slayer have fought tooth & nail since their beginning to gain ANY credibility, and it's a testament to their dogged determination and belief in what they were doing that has kept them strong throughout all these years. It was only around the Seasons In The Abyss era where the media finally threw in the towel, and realized that Slayer weren't going away any time soon - that I started to see articles heralding them as saviours of the scene. The words, Seminal, Stalwart, Classic, Influential, were finally being used regularly in descriptions of their stature. During this time, bands like 'Lica, Anthrax, Megapop were starting to change direction into sell-out county to suit the more alternative climate you speak of - Slayer stuck to their beliefs, maintained and cultivated their fanbase & laughed back at the press who derided them for so long.
I'm sorry, but Metal will ALWAYS survive in the face of adversity - especially bands like Slayer. It never really goes away... it just returns back where it belongs (in the Underground), until it becomes popular to the mainstream again. Just because new bands come on the scene, it in NO way surpasses or invalidates the careers of their predecessors. Pantera, were a band who rode on the coat-tails of those before them who paved the way & welcomed them into the scene, by offering them tours to help them find their feet. I very much doubt there was any competition between them. It's for this reason why I find a thread like this laughable. Both bands have their merits and are valid within the scene. THAT is ALL that matters...
Thrillho
I'm Freaking Out!!one!!
Where did I say that?Tyler Durden said:
Rode the coattails? They really forged their own sound by the time Vulgar was released. Cowboys from Hell was still kind of glam-ish, they hadn't quite found their total sound at that point. But they progressed and got better. Slayer's pretty much been a one-trick pony.Tyler Durden said:
I agree with that. I'm looking at the differences in musicianship, not the particular "scene" their sound might fall under.Tyler Durden said:
Tyler Durden
Terrorist
You didn't say that... that's why I started off with a question of sorts. Maybe I just like reading between the lines...
Pantera are pretty much a one trick pony as well, just with a different jockey. They forged their own sound just like every band does (including Slayer) - through their influences. Pantera, in their later years they started getting into a few acoustic numbers - but that's never really been Slayer's style - so I wouldn't exactly hold that against them. I don't notice any more a significant change in Pantera's vibe since they started out, through to the point when they split. I would say both bands progressed and got better over time, though.
They're both good at what they do... but with a gun at my head - I'd still have to say I prefer Slayer.
See, I knew you'd come around!Tyler Durden said:
We both made good arguments and ended up back where we started. Let's have a drink!
Tyler Durden
Terrorist
Tyler Durden said:
dd316 said:See, I knew you'd come around!
We both made good arguments and ended up back where we started. Let's have a drink!
Chortle, Wheeze, etc.
I don't ever remember typing the quote above, and anyone reading this shit is welcome to search my posts to find the truth. If making up false quotes is how to score points here, then there's not much point in any of us being here.
Have fun being a godplayer. I'm outta here.
Holy Christ, I was just fucking around! Did you not see the smileys next to it? Did you not read what I wrote after that? If you're that hard-headed then good riddance!Tyler Durden said:
Last time I try to end an argument with some levity.
Rattlehed
New Metal Member
- Apr 21, 2006
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[/QUOTE] I agree with that. I'm looking at the differences in musicianship, not the particular "scene" their sound might fall under.[/QUOTE]
That's a very valid point, but do you find it possible to compare musicianship when the music isn't part of the same "genre" ? I feel that although both Pantera and Slayer play "metal", there is a fine distinction between the "thrash/speed metal" of Slayer and the "groove/neo-thrash metal" of Pantera, which is most easily recognizable by comparing the "sound" of both bands. You can't compare an orange and an apple; they're both fruits, but they taste different. Or more relevantly, it's like the "tits or ass?" question concerning women; it's hard to make a choice,since both are different and both have their benefits.
That's just my two cents.
That's a very valid point, but do you find it possible to compare musicianship when the music isn't part of the same "genre" ? I feel that although both Pantera and Slayer play "metal", there is a fine distinction between the "thrash/speed metal" of Slayer and the "groove/neo-thrash metal" of Pantera, which is most easily recognizable by comparing the "sound" of both bands. You can't compare an orange and an apple; they're both fruits, but they taste different. Or more relevantly, it's like the "tits or ass?" question concerning women; it's hard to make a choice,since both are different and both have their benefits.
That's just my two cents.
