Pedophilia

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What if the kind of paedophiles that try to lure little kids from the park with offers of sweets, or puppies decide that they need an image makeover because they are sure they deserve the rights that "gays" have. So they call themselves "jollies" and make out they are like Santa Clause figures who only have consensual sex with kids. This scary situation sounds far-fetched, but then so did the idea that homosexuality would become so mainstream and protected by law, when this used to be equally unthinkable at one time.
 
LORD_RED_DRAGON said:
this phrase^^^ confuses me
do you mean someone actually molesting a child as opposed to just thinking about it, or do you mean someone sexually traumatizing a pre-pubescent child as opposed to making a 13 year-old reach orgasm???
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Well I must admit I am confused too. The definition of a pedophile is basically an adult who fantisizes or engages in sex with children. Now, personally I see nothing wrong with fantasizing about anything no matter how immoral, so long as it stays in your head or is shared only with a select group of responsible others. (I see the sharing of some fantasies as potentially dangerous). That part is simple as far as I'm concerned... no big deal.

On the other hand the act of an adult having sex with a child is a lot more complicated. Firstly, I feel any act that harms another human being, intentionally or unintentionally, whether it be physically or psychologically, is to be discouraged, if not punishable depending on the severity of the situation.

Second, you must define what a child is, an issue which some, including yourself have already touched on. I'm not really sure where to start on this issue, I think it's something that must consider a huge amount of factors... but I guess where there is any doubt I would err on the side of caution. I would much rather see children stopped from having and enjoying sex with adults (or anyone) than see children harmed from sexual interaction.

Third there is the consideration of whether the child is being harmed by sexual interation with an adult. I suspect that most children would be, however as has been pointed out there are probably young teenagers that are interested in sex and not initially affected by it... however I would question their motivation for doing it and wonder that they might not indeed be hurt by it at a later stage.

Lastly, if sex between adult and child was something that was routinely practiced in a closed society, I would imagine that the effects on the child would be negated... however I am not aware that such a society does exist appart from mention of similar acts in past societies.

So yeah... I have now lost the motivation to type so I will leave it at that.
 
One think which i feel may act as a deterent to paedophilia would be to actually punish the paedolphile severely. Some paedophiles have been abusing children for many many years and i personally do not see why they should be given a second chance or any kind of chance. These people are obviously guilty due to the length of time its been going on, and they have ruined far too many lives to be allowed to get away with it, including the children themselves and thier families. Rehabilitation does not always work, prison does not work for very many criminals at all, and although sex offenders have a harder time in prison from the prison officers and other prisoners, i do not think they pay enough for what they did. Also, given that it cost around £25,000 a year to keep someone in prison i do not see why we should bother giving them this luxury, they should be shot, as should serial killers and other serial sex offenders. This would also help to deter future paedophiles, i believe. I realise that there are many pros and cons surrounding the death penalty so this is just my opinion.
 
Neith said:
One think which i feel may act as a deterent to paedophilia would be to actually punish the paedolphile severely. Some paedophiles have been abusing children for many many years and i personally do not see why they should be given a second chance or any kind of chance. These people are obviously guilty due to the length of time its been going on, and they have ruined far too many lives to be allowed to get away with it, including the children themselves and thier families. Rehabilitation does not always work, prison does not work for very many criminals at all, and although sex offenders have a harder time in prison from the prison officers and other prisoners, i do not think they pay enough for what they did. Also, given that it cost around £25,000 a year to keep someone in prison i do not see why we should bother giving them this luxury, they should be shot, as should serial killers and other serial sex offenders. This would also help to deter future paedophiles, i believe. I realise that there are many pros and cons surrounding the death penalty so this is just my opinion.
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You sound like my father, although he advocates torture and castration before the actual shooting and he be approaching his awkward 60s.

I'm not sure that's the right route. If we believe people can be rehabilitated, then we tacitly accept pedophilia as an affliction. As I have argued earlier, I see pedophilia as contextually wrong not as an intrinsic evil. With that in mind, pedophilia remains wrong because of our context BUT, if someone can be ably rehabilitated to suppress these urges then perhaps we have a workable system.

Problem is: rehabilitation costs alot of money; rarely works and assumes that pedophilia can ever be actually suppressed enough for someone to live normally within society and that is arguable.

Given that pedophilia is so socially and contextually wrong and that I abhor the death penalty...perhaps sending them all to some island is a much better option.
 
Final_Product said:
Given that pedophilia is so socially and contextually wrong and that I abhor the death penalty...perhaps sending them all to some island is a much better option.
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So how would the island be ran? like a prison with officials and so on? or should they just be left to rot there and to manage on their own? Also, would females and males be kept separate? because if they were together they could reproduce, and then their offspring would potentially suffer at the hands of the paedophiles. anyway, if it was a big island then it may become much like australia is today, with all of its own problems and societies.
 
Neith said:
So how would the island be ran? like a prison with officials and so on? or should they just be left to rot there and to manage on their own? Also, would females and males be kept separate? because if they were together they could reproduce, and then their offspring would potentially suffer at the hands of the paedophiles. anyway, if it was a big island then it may become much like australia is today, with all of its own problems and societies.
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I agree, it is more difficult to actually run than suggest. It was, however, just an idea. I think its the idea of total and utter segregation from society for the rest of their lives. Life imprisonment of incarceration would do the job, also.
 
Neith said:
So how would the island be ran? like a prison with officials and so on? or should they just be left to rot there and to manage on their own? Also, would females and males be kept separate? because if they were together they could reproduce, and then their offspring would potentially suffer at the hands of the paedophiles. anyway, if it was a big island then it may become much like australia is today, with all of its own problems and societies.
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Excellent logic! By the way, have you noticed that Australians get really annoyed when anyone suggests criminals should be sent to an island? It seems to touch a raw nerve.
 
Final_Product said:
I'm not sure that's the right route. If we believe people can be rehabilitated, then we tacitly accept pedophilia as an affliction. As I have argued earlier, I see pedophilia as contextually wrong not as an intrinsic evil. With that in mind, pedophilia remains wrong because of our context BUT, if someone can be ably rehabilitated to suppress these urges then perhaps we have a workable system.

Problem is: rehabilitation costs alot of money; rarely works and assumes that pedophilia can ever be actually suppressed enough for someone to live normally within society and that is arguable.
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Seems like death (or, as you later noted exile) would be more just to both us and them. I don't like the absolutist moral that comes with the prison system which you seem to advocate, even though you noted that pedophilia might not be intristically wrong (how could it?).
 
Norsemaiden said:
Excellent logic! By the way, have you noticed that Australians get really annoyed when anyone suggests criminals should be sent to an island? It seems to touch a raw nerve.
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Personally I think it's a great idea. My ancestors were convicts, with my great x 7 grandmother being convicted for stealing a handkerchief and some ribbon, and her husband convicted for stealing a shoe. In the face of all that my family turned out fine!
 
Well to figure out this problem, you should first start with finding out the Why, then the what to do.

So why are people pedophiles? Is it because they crave power like suggested? Or Maybe they just happen to enjoy the sick pleasure of what they do, or maybe their first sexual thoughts were about the girls in his/her class?

ONce you find out the why, then you will know how to treat the problem. Unless you just want to waste another life, and not gain any knowledge from the mistakes of others.
 
Shiny McShining Rodriguez said:
Personally I think it's a great idea. My ancestors were convicts, with my great x 7 grandmother being convicted for stealing a handkerchief and some ribbon, and her husband convicted for stealing a shoe. In the face of all that my family turned out fine!
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That sort of "criminality" is really just trivial or even a sign of self-reliance, because they needed these things and were too poor to get it any other way. It is no surprise Australians turned out fine.
 
The Winnipeg Warrior said:
How would someone here categorize the Mary Kay Letourneau Affair.....especially when a woman is involved in the same manner? Just curious?

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She is an example of someone who should be given some sort of fairly mild punishment, like losing her teaching career. Just so that it is a deterent to teachers to hit on their pupils - which would be disruptive to the learning process.
The 13 year old boy was sexually mature in a way that fewer whites are at that age, so it would be different if she had made all the moves on him and he was naive. He was probably no virgin as well.
If it was a male teacher and a girl, it would depend again on her maturity and the extent to which the girl had been encouraging the situation.
But added to this there would have to be a legal age of consent and 13 istoo low because of that not being sufficient to protect the immature ones. There would ideally be a sliding scale of punishment where each case is decided on its merit with any under 12 being protected with strong laws and those up to 16 being considered to have been seduced illegally (also with harsh penalty) unless there was strong evidence that they consented and that they are happy with their situation.

A study at the University of Carolina found that 21% of black boys had developed pubic hair between age 9 and 10, compared with 4.3% of whites. Nearly half of Afro-American girls and 15% of white girls were beginnig to develop sexually by age 8. Study reported in the journal "Pediatrics" involved 1700 girls aged 3 to 12. (from BIOL 121 Human Biology)
If it is offensive to give statistics relating to racial differences please let me know.
 
The Winnipeg Warrior said:
How would someone here categorize the Mary Kay Letourneau Affair.....especially when a woman is involved in the same manner? Just curious?

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well, from a physical/biological standpoint this was clearly NOT a pedophilistic case. From what i remember ( i might be describing a totally different case but it's still relavant) Letourneau was married, law enforcement/media didn't know her name till after the start of the 2nd tri-mester of pregnancy because she'd been discrete enough that nobody noticed that she was cheating on her husband untill somebody somehow realized that the husband couldn't possibly be the biological father of his wife's kid (like he was out of town or sterile or impotent at time of conception, i really can't remember) then at first it was merely a baseless asumption that the guy the highschool teacher was fucking was a student (an assumption that turned out to be accurate, but still originally baseless to begin with) where the child's DNA was used for the PROSECUTION to show that the pregnant highschool teacher actually did an illegal act with a male that was legally/chronologically a "child" even though the fact that he impregnated her clearly shows that he was physically/biologically an adult.
i'm not sure if the majority of the people here will be familiar enough with "moral relativism" to really folow what i'm saying, but my freinds seem to be experts on it and when the 10th birthday of this kid was on the news, my freinds tried to explain to me how all modern world laws are "absolute" law where the infant's DNA was used for the PROSECUTION but that under a law system ruled by "moral relativism", there would have been a measurement of "malicious intent" where the infant's DNA would have been used for the DEFENSE to show that this supposed "child" student that she slept with was phyisically/biologically an adult and that she "gave" him an orgasm as OPPOSED to making him perform cunnilingus on her or sliding a strap-on dildo up his ass or something that would be much more definitively "malicious"
 
Final_Product said:
Thing is...How can we say an older male and an younger female is abhorrent, yet and older women and younger male is fine?
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this is considered by some to be one of the greatest examples of possible proof of "genitic memory"
even if the genetic memory theory is bogus it is still obviously the result of "tradition"
 
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