Prog me, baby

[Satori]

Hello.

I would like to ask you fine people once again to suggest some listening material for me and others like me.

I am looking for anything that's nice and progressive, but please, not in the vein of Dream Theatre, Nevermore, Pain of Salvation and the like, not so whiney and blatantly commercial.

I like any style (except the one mentioned above) from jazz to rock to the most brutal of metal, it just has to be progressive cuz if it's not it bores me to death. I can even handle cheesy stuff like Yes for example. By progressive I mean structurally progressive, songs that don't repeat themselves and have that "journey" aspect to them (like MR and MAYH for example).

How about it? Can you help me out of my rut of musical boredom?

Thanks, and best wishes,

Satori

 

[terrymx]

from your description i cannot reccomend anything to you

 

[justus x]

Pardon me while I pop my eyes back into their sockets. Dream Theater and Pain of Salvation are blatantly commercial? I must have awoken in a parallel universe this morning.

 

[terrymx]

http://www.theendrecords.com/html/scholomance.html
mp3.com/scholomance

or try pootie tang, i don't think that guy is repeative

 

[Near Distant]

Hmm... You might want to listen to Extol's album titled "Undeceived"! Or... How about "Maudlin of the Well"? Listening to motW is a journey itself and they have jazz and classical influences... And, you can also try listen to Andromeda, if you want some excellent guitar work...

 

[Obyeybyeogone]

Yes, definantely check out Maudlin of the Well.

 

[bleedingskeptic]

well, there is some crazy shit out there. anyone who knows me knows my fav band is spiral architect. get spiral architect, they play the craziest music you'll ever hear.
you may also like to check out bands like watchtower, cynic, aghora, gordian knot, death, atheist, zero hour, psychotic waltz, and thought insustry. they play alot of strange technical metal, incorporating jazz and classical music with some heavy metal. don't worry, these bands are nothing like the various dream theater clones. they all play music that i wouldn't doubt could give people seizures its so technical and musically insane.
the only problem is alot of this stuff is REALLY hard to find. cynic, wathctower, and atheist are all out of print at the moment, but they can be found used, possibly online (hey, i found them!). as for the other stuff, you'll just have to special order it and it might take a couple weeks, but its worth the wait. if your not sure about these bands, download a spiral architect song or two and you'll get a pretty good idea of how technical/progessieve metal sounds.

 

[E V I L]

check out evergrey!

I know exactly what you mean by "whiney" I simply, for instance, can't stand the voice of the guy who sings for Dream Theater.

Check out Evergrey's "IN search of the truth" it's progressive, ambient, and it grows on you. I just recently found out about them, but I'm loving them the more I listen-- there albums are actually honed and crafted and have some sense of direction.

I'm not sure about their other albums. But indeed you must check out evergrey's "In search of truth"

 

[S4R]

Originally posted by Satori
I am looking for anything that's nice and progressive, but please, not in the vein of Dream Theatre, Nevermore, Pain of Salvation and the like, not so whiney and blatantly commercial.


Satori

Originally posted by E V I L
check out evergrey!

I know exactly what you mean by "whiney" I simply, for instance, can't stand the voice of the guy who sings for Dream Theater.

I don't think I can handle all of this Dream Theater bashing.

 

[Russell]

Uuuuum, try godspeed you black emporer or a silvermount zion. It definitely has an unusual structure. Its not particulally accesible - post rock with famous speeches over the top etc., and a lotof white noise, but its really worth it!

Now, progressive - Jazz/Funk try Herbie Hancock - Headhunters, absolutely amazing. A lot of charlieparker is alos good, but I wouldn't describe it as progressive (neither herbie hancock,but well worth it - definitely has that structure)

 

[bleedingskeptic]

ok, i ignored the dream theate bashing before, but its getting a bit out of hand now. i will be the first to say that dream theater is not THE BEST progressive metal band, but they are pretty damn good. in fact, i wouldn't have even gotten into cynic and spiral architect or even opeth if i hadn't picked up that dream theater a couple years ago. they are a great place to start for newcomers to progressive metal, and are still one of my favorite bands even though i've found more technical and progressive stuff. i don't really look to much at vocals when i judge a band. sure i take it into acount, but i've grown a wide variety of tastes in vocals. i love opeth and death, they both have deathy vocals. i love spiral arhcitect and watchtower and they've got high, operatic vocals. the funny thing is i saw someone bash dream theater and glorify evergrey in the same sentence. evergrey and dream theater are almost the same, only evergrey's vocalist doesn't hit those high notes all the time. i realise that dream theater isn't the best band out there, but c'mon. they still kick a lot of ass.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by justus x
Pardon me while I pop my eyes back into their sockets. Dream Theater and Pain of Salvation are blatantly commercial? I must have awoken in a parallel universe this morning.

hehe, I have to wonder what your definition of "commercial" is

 

[jimbobhickville]

how are Dream Theater and Nevermore "whiney" and "overly commercial" and Yes and Journey aren't? Just curious since they both changed their style to become more accessible and enjoyed previously unfound success, while Nevemore and Dream Theater have actually gotten heavier.

Anyway, I second the recommendation for the technical metal bands listed (Cynic, Watchtower, Spiral Architect, Zero Hour, Aghora, Thought Industry, etc.) and I'll add some: Andromeda and Spastic Ink.

As for being Out of Print, Watchtower "Control and Resistance", Cynic "Focus", and Thought Industry are fairly easy to come by, despite the claims to the contrary. I got Cynic from Amazon.com, Watchtower from Century Media, and Thought Industry from Yahoo! Shopping all within the last year.

Watchtower "Energetic Disassembly" is impossibly rare and always sells for $50 or more on eBay when it comes up. Spastic Ink is out of print, but I have an extra copy listed in the trade forum if you're interested.

 

[D Mullholand]

Originally posted by godisanathiest
Now, progressive - Jazz/Funk try Herbie Hancock - Headhunters, absolutely amazing. A lot of charlieparker is alos good, but I wouldn't describe it as progressive (neither herbie hancock,but well worth it - definitely has that structure)

Man, I have heard Hancock's 'Crossings' album from 1972 today for the first time ! Definitely thumbs up ! Are you into other fusion/jazz ? What do you think of Mahavishnu Orchestra/John McLaughlin ?

D Mullholand
--------------------
NP: Herbie Hancock - Crossings

 

[E V I L]

Originally posted by jimbobhickville
how are Dream Theater and Nevermore "whiney" and "overly commercial" and Yes and Journey aren't? Just curious since they both changed their style to become more accessible and enjoyed previously unfound success, while Nevemore and Dream Theater have actually gotten heavier.

Anyway, I second the recommendation for the technical metal bands listed (Cynic, Watchtower, Spiral Architect, Zero Hour, Aghora, Thought Industry, etc.) and I'll add some: Andromeda and Spastic Ink.

As for being Out of Print, Watchtower "Control and Resistance", Cynic "Focus", and Thought Industry are fairly easy to come by, despite the claims to the contrary. I got Cynic from Amazon.com, Watchtower from Century Media, and Thought Industry from Yahoo! Shopping all within the last year.

Watchtower "Energetic Disassembly" is impossibly rare and always sells for $50 or more on eBay when it comes up. Spastic Ink is out of print, but I have an extra copy listed in the trade forum if you're interested.

Speaking for myself only,

it's all in the voice. I can't stand the high-toned "shnazzy" singing. This is also why I will never be able to get into the Amorphis.

Besides the voice, I see plenty of musicianship in Dream Theatre's music, but I never get a sense of unity and direction and artistic purpose in their music (even the concept albums). Undoubetedly this is only becuae I haven't let dream Theatre set, but how can I? That guys voice is dreadfully disturbing to my soul.

 

[Ordeith]

Definitely Spiral Architect. They're music is incredible.

I'm not really into the technical stuff, and what I like (Borknagar, In the Woods, etc.) you probably know of already!

 

[Ordeith]

Oooh, forgot to mention :
Trust Us by Motorpsycho as well as Timothys Monster by the same band are great progressive albums. Just don't get any of their later (post 1998) or earlier (pre 1994) stuff as it's a fair bit more straightforward

 

[Satori]

Ahem. Being the bastard that I obviously am, let me publicly state that I think Dream Theatre sucks donkey dick. This is just my opinion and nothing to get upset about.

I used to like them and then a short time later I started to dislike them and now they just make me sick. Everything about makes me sick, including the lyrics, the hairspray/hair dye, the makeup, the "posing", the whining, the "emotion", bleh, sure they are great musicians, but fuck, I'm not into cheesy commerical poser hair metal bands anymore and I simply cannot relate.

It occured to me very early on in my Dream Theatre phase that what I really liked was the musicianship, not the sound/texture. When the initial awe of the musicianship wore off for me there was nothing left but the sickly sweet aroma that you all are familiar with.

One glance (hairspray/eye liner) or one listen (serious emotive whining) reveals this band is about as American as apple pie, and in the context of intelligent/inventive music, this is definitely not a good thing. The US is known for producing vast quantities of commerical crap and I think Dream Theatre, as proficient as they are, also fall into this category. They are (I think) producing albums to sell and make money instead of using their vast talent to create something unique and special (who can blame them, they are Americans catering to Americans under an American label, were they NOT blatantly commercial they'd find themselves out of a record deal pretty quick). I think I'm just stating the obvious here.

Perhaps you think I'm coming down too hard on them because they have their hair permed and cuz they wear tonnes of eye-liner(and Labrie even paints his nails). I feel this is quite significant. I think that any band that pretties themselves up are doing so for the primary purpose of selling albums and this makes me sick because (to me) music is a cherished art form and the players should be loved for their minds and "souls" (for the lack of a better word), they shouldn't feel the need to sell-out or cheesify in that way.

Musicianship isn't *everything*, it's just a foundation. To me, Dream Theatre are like the back street boys of "metal" (not that I would call them metal cuz they are so whimpy, I'd call them rock).

When I think of Dream Theatre these three words come to mine: cheesy commercial crap.

There, I've ranted. I feel better now, don't you?

muwaahah,

Satori

 

[D Mullholand]

Originally posted by Satori
Hello.

I would like to ask you fine people once again to suggest some listening material for me and others like me.

I am looking for anything that's nice and progressive, but please, not in the vein of Dream Theatre, Nevermore, Pain of Salvation and the like, not so whiney and blatantly commercial.

I like any style (except the one mentioned above) from jazz to rock to the most brutal of metal, it just has to be progressive cuz if it's not it bores me to death. I can even handle cheesy stuff like Yes for example. By progressive I mean structurally progressive, songs that don't repeat themselves and have that "journey" aspect to them (like MR and MAYH for example).

How about it? Can you help me out of my rut of musical boredom?

Thanks, and best wishes,

Satori

I've never heard Dream Theater, but I heard some bands that were compared to them, and they were truly full of cheesy and pompous melodies and gymnastics. Oh well.

Now to the interesting part. I support the Cynic and Atheist recommendations from the good people here - these bands are not cheesy at all, and not exercises in guitar-gymnastics as well.

One band that constantly gets forgotten in all the prog-threads here is Jethro Tull. I'm sure you've heard them already, but no one seems to mention them, including me (I always put forth more avant-garde-prog selections) - but Jethro Tull is one of my all-time favourite bands. The best albums for me are : "A Passion Play", "Thick as a Brick", "Heavy Horses", "Benefit", "J-Tull Dot Com", "Stormwatch", "Aqualung", plus the last two Ian Anderson solo albums.

Now what about King Crimson ? "Red" and "Starless and Bible Black" is great food for the heart and for the brain. It's weird, dissonant, heavy and extremely innovative, NOT only on a rock-music level.

Univers Zero. They are hard to find, use Audiogalaxy or something. The albums "Ceux du Dehors" and "Heresie". Dark, oppressing atonal progressive-chamber rock with an incredible and hyper-original drummer. Caution - destroys the ears of saccharine neo-proog(spock's beard etc)/proog-metal fans.

Magma. They play Zeuhl music - a style which they invented. Imagine a weird, complex but driving rhythm-section (another prominent and original drummer), choirs who sing in an invented language and sharp falsetto-screams, very repetitive music where in reality no phrase ever repeats... just get the "Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh" album.

Have you already checked out Sculptured ?

D Mullholand
-------------------
NP: Herbie Hancock - Crossings

 

[Satori]

Doesn't Spiral Architect have that whiney "Oh my, I'm so overcome with emotion I'm going to cry" edge to them? Aren't they in the vein of the dreaded Dream Theatre clones? I think I heard them once and I instantly started menstruating, maybe it was someone else, but I thought it was them. Extremely commercial hair type band, I thought. Actually, I'm sure it was them I heard, I remember the website, even the art on the site made me want to hurl, it reminded me of the art in Dream Theatre CD's (not a good thing).

We need more progressive death/black metal bands, I think.

as prickish as ever,

Satori

PS: thanks very much for all the reccomendations guys, you guys are coolest! Even though I may express how much I don't like something, I appreciate the suggestions nonetheless! I just a cynical bastard, hehe.