Question for the non-native English speakers

[Obyeybyeogone]

What he means is, some people don't know any better how to talk correctly. You grow up speaking like the people around you. If you grow up around a lot of uneducated people you're going to talk like them. The synapses in your brains that allow you to acquire language easily start closing when you're eleven. If you don't learn the correct version of English by then you're probably going to tend to speak more like you did when you were eleven, accent, changing certain words, etc. If enough people keep speaking incorrectly it will probably become acceptable, I know that's how languages change though, but until then, I appreciate when people can talk right

 

[E V I L]

Originally posted by Juggie
heh, yea i figured you where talking about me

Don't let my allusions fool you. I am talking about you. But inasmuch as you said yourself that you have trouble speaking English, you need not feel offended.

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by Wolff
Loosely defined yeah US has a culture (but then again if you define culture as a set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and whatever... who doesn't?)

I'm referring to the renaissance-ish definition, i.e. cultivation, and excellence of taste acquired by intellectual and aesthetic training. Americans are in dire need of enlightenment. Sure they're the best in the world in making money and accumulating wealth, but they way they (we) live is not very commendable. Too much stress, too much sameness, too much poverty, too much ghetto, too many racial problems, too many nouveau riches, too little basic education, too little basic healthcare, too many uncreative feckers, too much religion, too little soccer, a very retributive justice system, too many people sitting in death row, too much appallingly violent crime... yet too many nice people. Marvelous land, America.

I absolutely agree with your re-cap of American culture.

If your only definition of culture is the "cultivation, and excellence of taste acquired by intellectual and aesthetic training" then only a handful of countries in the world have one, and they're all in Western Europe. Third-world countries have cultures, right? Not according to your definition.

 

[Juggie]

Originally posted by Oyo
What he means is, some people don't know any better how to talk correctly. You grow up speaking like the people around you. If you grow up around a lot of uneducated people you're going to talk like them. The synapses in your brains that allow you to acquire language easily start closing when you're eleven. If you don't learn the correct version of English by then you're probably going to tend to speak more like you did when you were eleven, accent, changing certain words, etc. If enough people keep speaking incorrectly it will probably become acceptable, I know that's how languages change though, but until then, I appreciate when people can talk right

Around that age is when people get their personality. For example, if a child is raped or molested around that age they will be likely to develope some kind of illness in the future, but after that age nothing as sever as if before.

 

[morganm]

I like the fact that America is slighty culture-free. I would rather live in a country with absolutely no histroy...with no 2000 year old hatred of another country, than live in a place where complete civil unrest is common.

 

[Obyeybyeogone]

Didn't know that part
That's why I think that schools should teach you more before that age, it will stick with you better if you learn stuff before then.

 

[E V I L]

America... at least we have Jazz.

I can't argue with the stuff that have passed in this thread, but I do see a very bright future for american culture... don't ask me why, I just believe.. on faith. heh.

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by Lina
I absolutely agree with your re-cap of American culture.

If your only definition of culture is the "cultivation, and excellence of taste acquired by intellectual and aesthetic training" than only a handful of countries in the world have one, and they're all in Western Europe. Third-world countries have cultures, right? Not according to your definition.

No, they wouldn't. My country wouldn't have one either; those uncultured bastards.

Seriously speaking, the idea of every nation/state having a distinct culture is laughable. You tell me what's the difference between Guatemalan and Bolivian culture and I'll shut up. To have a "culture" (and I am using the renaissance def.) you must have seriously contributed to the world civilization.

On the other hand, I'd rather talk of a cultured/uncultured person; where you come from doesn't matter (well it could be a slight hindrance) as long as you strive towards that excellence of taste.

How come we never ever have talked about wine or food in this forum?

 

[Obyeybyeogone]

We prefer talking about beer and fastfood

 

[Lina]

Shall I discuss the "date" I had with my father last week? We went to a Peruvian restaurant that charged $80 for some inedible (but pretty! it has to be pretty!) shit, followed by a three-and-a-half-hour production of Hamlet at the Shakespeare Theatre (with an "re", not "er"). Cultured enough for you? I came to the realization during dinner that my favorite restaurant is Denny's.

 

[Juggie]

Culture is simply a particular civilization at a particular stage of its existence. So saying that ANY country does'nt have a culture is not true, but opinion.

 

[E V I L]

This thread was an interesting one. congrats Lina. In the span of a few minutes we got around to talking about language, culture, the psychological effects of childhood, shakespeare and now food. (we almost even had a flame war too)

 

[Lina]

And only one non-native English speaker posted! I'd still like to get some responses from them, so I hope it lasts until they wake up.

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by Lina
Shall I discuss the "date" I had with my father last week? We went to a Peruvian restaurant that charged $80 for some inedible (but pretty! it has to be pretty!) shit, followed by a three-and-a-half-hour production of Hamlet at the Shakespeare Theatre (with an "re", not "er"). Cultured enough for you? I came to the realization during dinner that my favorite restaurant is Denny's.

That's a scam. I mean all these Latinos coming up with their "cultured" traditions for the gullible Americans. I mean take food for example: Mexican food has 4 ingredients: beans, meat, cheese and the goddman wheat flour wrapping. Yet, they have like 20 names for it. Anyways...

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

I speak australian.

Sadly enough, Australia is like 'America mkII' in some ways. It's terrible (no offence america, but you suck!). Australia has hardly any culture itself anymore.

 

[aegis]

Do you view the worldwide spread of English as yet another annoying example of the U.S. exporting its culture (even though we obviously aren't the only country that speaks English)?

warning, my english is very bad : itis not my second language ....
it's my third (yes i chose german in second language, /me is an idiot)

yes ... or no, US won't spread their cultures ... US culture is a popular cultur (i mean, it's a culture for the people (shit, my english sucks and i am very tired (it's 5AM here)) ... french culture is more intellectual of that ... If you say to someone here that The Lord of the Rings is the book of the Century (it has been elected in another country), he will laugh and cite Camus, Malraux, Proust, Anouilh, Vian, Sartre ... (even if i love TLOTR, i have to agree with these people), so i think here we keep our culture, USA just impose us their god($), and the way to worship it, but not their culture ... but i digress ...

for the langue, it isn't for me a problem. I am very interested by the new technologies, computers, science and stuff like that, and the idea of an univeral language pleases me. I can obtain from the whole world if i can speak english

What i fear is the regression of the french it's trendy to use english now, teenagers are mixing french and english while speaking, or writing in phonetics ... that's unreadable ... french teenagers seems to don't want the effort to learn corectly french ... i can't understand that, for me, french is a far more beauttiful language ... Just listen a poem of Rimbaud or Verlaine recited in french ... you'll understand i think, no need to understand the lyrics (no no, "Le Spleen" from Evereve (adaptation of a poem of Baudelaire) doesn't count, what an awful accent the singer has, he ruins all) ...


i am not sure to have answered the question ... i am very tired (it's 6AM), so i surely wrote a lot of incomprehensible bullshit

 

[Claire's Horror]

English is one of the poorest languages on earth, thus is relatively easy to learn, all in all.

 

[tenebrose]

Before I go on, Swedish is my first formal language (I say formal, because some would want to count Scanish, but it's not a formal language according to the EU, at least not yet), English is my second and French is my third.

Originally posted by Lina
Do you view the worldwide spread of English as yet another annoying example of the U.S. exporting its culture (even though we obviously aren't the only country that speaks English)?

The world-wide spread of English is yet another annoying example of the U.S. exporting mono-culturism, yes, at least partially. Arch said that the British are the ones who exported English, and I agree, to a very slight extent. They exported English to their colonies. The English you see today is not British English. We are taught British English in school, but the only people I know who actually use British English is my History teacher, my friend Sarah from Britain and myself.

Or do you view it more objectively -- as in, one global language will be necessary as our borders are brought down by technology and business? And English was chosen simply because U.S. businesses dominate the global market?

English was chosen because of the political and economical strength of the U.S., yes. Does that mean it should be a global language? No. I don't think so. In the west today we have two global languages; English for business and French for diplomacy. Si on faut étuder anglais je pense qu'on devrait étuder français aussi. (if my French is too broken from not having had a single class in the past year, or you simply don't read French, that is supposed to say: If one has to study English, I think that one ought to study French as well).

Does it make you angry to have to learn English? Or is it so commonplace that it's not even questioned anymore?

It does not make me angry at all. In fact I learnt most of my English prior to reaching the age of English classes and outside of school. I also attend the International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme, which means my school text books are in English and so are, of course, my classes. I do, however, make an effort to use British English, as opposed to American English, and as I apply to a University, I will not apply to any American ones, but I will apply to a few which are British.
I also think our third language should be just as prioritised as English, which it isn't. For those who aren't familiar with the system, in Sweden you start learning English in 4th grade (I think it might have been moved down to 3rd, actually, with the 1998 reform). Then, in 6th grade, you start learning a third language. This language is one of the three available: German (most people chose this one for its similarity with Swedish), French and Spanish.

 

[YaYo]

Sadly enough, Australia is like 'America mkII' in some ways. It's terrible (no offence america, but you suck!). Australia has hardly any culture itself anymore.

yeh every TV show, every popular band, always becoming that bit more american.
I mean most Australians don't even notice the american accent, i think its horrible though, and i can't stand the way american tv people speak (talk back shows, commercials, news programs, etc) its so fake, and Australia is falling right into it.

 

[Fjelltussa]

Just a question... Americans seem to pronounce all words - in all languages - in american. Why is that? Don't they manage to do otherwise, or just don't they bother to try anything else? When I speak english I use english pronounciation (brithish, american or whatever - it differs depending to whom I talk/about what/the situation), when I speak frensh I use frensh pronounciation, and so on. (I don't know too many other languages... other than those, and my own). And another qustion. When you watch american television programs, it seems like everyone, almost, are religious. Mostly christians, and now and then there pops up a jew or a muslim. You get the impression that the american opinion on what a good, decent person is, is a christian person. And whenever I hear some famous american person speak - be it politicians or musicians or acters - they always say something about God. 'And God bless you', 'I want to thank God' and the like. Are the americans generally very religious people? And do everyone usually eat unhealthy food? Is it true that most people over there are very negative to smoking (as it f.ex. looks like in 'Friends')?
Now, that were a lot of questions... But anyway, I have no hard feelings whatsoever towards americans, I respect them as I respect any others. I just hate when folks of my own people use am. words when they speak norwegian, as if our own words aren't good enough. It makes me ashamed, and it sounds stupid besides. And when they adopt am. customs, to. It's like the all that's american is better than anything else, and it makes me a little irritaded. But thats at my own people, as I said, and not you.