Yeah I agree with Hearse... I don't think that english is like cultural domination. BTW english is very easy to learn (maybe the easiest language) so it's very convenient?! Right?
Question for the non-native English speakers
- Thread starter Lina
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YaYo
whendaydescends.com
- May 6, 2001
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American is basically america, most other countries have to survive on television shows / music / food from all over the world because they dont have enough on their own. But america make so much of everything that they seem to just survive on their own things. Hence their connection with the rest of the world is rather uninformed in general... is this at all accurate?
Gandalf
elite sheesha smoker
I'd say english is easy to learn because its just everywhere. More and more languages are adopting english words. Hell, when i talk in arabic, i find myself putting in english words here and there, cause i dont know what the words are in arabic. Same with french too.
Sullen Jester
Corporate Executive
I kinda agree with Wolff
Anyway I don't think it's got something to do with the USA.. it's just a quite easy-to-learn-and-use language and that's why it was chosen as an "international" language.. or maybe I'm too naive and everything in this fuckin world has got something to do with the USA
Before, me and Hearse (I think it was him anyway) came to the conclusion that English is one of the pissiest languages to learn (because of spelling, pronounciation and sentence structuring) whereas something like Finnish was easier, partly due to pronoucniation being MUCH BETTER (say as it is spelt).
Thus, he has taught me three very revered words, and, after trying to pronounce them in my English-speaking mind, his simple explanation opened a whole new understanding to me. Here are those words which I hold inside my mind-library:
1: Perkele
2: Vittu
3: Kiukku
Bless that man.
Sullen Jester
Corporate Executive
Voice of God
Harmless Bum
On the other hand, Finnish is usually said to be one of the toughest languages to learn as a second (or third or fourth or whatever) language. It may be easy to pronounce in some sense, but e.g. double-consonants seem to be difficult for some people and the conjugation isn't easy in any sense.
About the original subject: Yes, I think English, in some sense, is popular because of US culture-export, but I don't mind the popularity of the language (but I despise US popular culture pretty much). It's very good to have one global language and english is pretty good for it, because it is easy to learn (at least for me). It's also true that it's easy to learn because you can hear it everywhere, I wasn't too bad in swedish but I've forgotten half of my vocabulary because I don't watch swedish tv-shows or speak it anywhere.
There is one thing I hate. It's how teens and kids tend to use English or English-related words in their speak, just because it's "cool". Even Finnish (youth)media seems to support this occasionally. I like English, but using it instead of Finnish is just blasphemy. IT-business seems to have the same problem, I've been on lectures where the lecturer can't come up with Finnish word for "transforming".... so he uses the English word with Finnish conjugation.
There should be a smilie for vomiting.
discouraged1
disco my arse!
I have learned English since I was, like 7 or 8, through movies and lyrics.
And I'm still learning it and don't have a problem with it
And I'm still learning it and don't have a problem with it
tenebrose
Ceramic Goddess
I would agree that English is very easy to learn, but linguists, and I assume they should know, actually say, that English is one of the harder languages in the world to learn.
Mr. Black
sixtie and six legions
The people most in need of being taught English are people who live in England and America, as most have no clue how to do so correctly. I'm not one of these people who write letters to newspapers complaining about how 'young people today cannot speak or write properly', for it does not concern me much at all, language develops in the vernacular not in literature, or we would all write and speak like Chaucer. I do, however, think that people should learn how to read, speak and write correctly and then abuse the language as much as they like, I swear like a squadie most of the time anyway so I cannot complain. The trouble is, whereas schools in non-English speaking countries have to actively teach the pupils to speak the Language, and may as well do so correctly (teaching a class of 12yr olds the contextual differences between 'twat' and 'wanker' is probably not the best way of teaching English as a second language), most in this country, however, can already speak it and so teachers, short staffed and under pressure to make league table targets etc., are not going to 'waste time' teaching something 90% of the students already 'know well enough'. The results can been seen clearly if you ever have the pleasure of speaking to the average 15yr old English boy or girl, because whatever it is they are speaking, it is not English. Over usage of Americanism is, thought, starting to piss me off (maybe Im getting old ). Using the word 'Jock' in the American parlance for example, I was talking to my 14yr old cousin over Christmas and thought he had developed some sort of paranoid hatred of all Scotsmen. I'd like at this point to rant further about 'Nu-metal' and 'Pop-Punk'...but I can't be arsed.
). Using the word 'Jock' in the American parlance for example, I was talking to my 14yr old cousin over Christmas and thought he had developed some sort of paranoid hatred of all Scotsmen. I'd like at this point to rant further about 'Nu-metal' and 'Pop-Punk'...but I can't be arsed.
Well, I'm sure your Norwegian accent is betrayed a bit when you speak in any language too, despite how hard you try to "sound French." I think I have a pretty good ear for copying the sound of another language, but you are right that a lot of Americans butcher the pronunciations of other lanaguages. This is because we don't hear other languages.
As YaYoGakk touched on, our geographical and cultural isolation has made Americans, by and large, ignorant of the rest of the world, as you all know. However, I think it's unfair to hate Americans for that, because I think most people, put in an American's position, would turn out the same way. When there's no need to learn about other countries, most people won't. I think that's a shame, though. I've always wanted to be multi-lingual but never had the chance to use another language, so my knowledge of French and Norwegian has faded.
Yes. And it's disgusting. And I'm actually surprised it's the case, because caring about others doesn't lend itself very well to the individualistic, greedy mindframe that American business and culture fosters. Yes, America broke with the U.K. for religious reasons, but religion hasn't always been as prevalent as it is today. It seems to have made a comeback. Which I find depressing and horrifying, as it signifies the shrinking of our collective intelligence.
Yes. And lots of it. My Norwegian cousins visited this summer and were shocked at how big the portions are in restaurants. (As a sidenote, they were also shocked that we take the leftovers home. I thought that was funny. They just couldn't get used to the idea of a "doggy bag."
)Yes. This is one of the few things I personally think America is ahead of the world on. Very few people smoke, and those who do are looked down on.
A lot of you have mentioned how it bugs you that younger people mix English words with your native language, and I agree that it would be sad to see beautiful languages wiped out. But I also see it as the inevitable progression toward one global language -- not just one that is used in addition to your native tongue, but instead of. Part of me looks forward to that time, but there are many more beautiful languages than English and it's too bad they won't survive.
I'm really grateful as long as I don't have to learn chinesee in order to communicate with all of you.. :s
some sociologists says it's just a matter of time till chinesee will be *the* dominating world-language, and maybe they got a point with all those people they've got over there..
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some sociologists says it's just a matter of time till chinesee will be *the* dominating world-language, and maybe they got a point with all those people they've got over there..
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Obyeybyeogone
New Metal Member
Chinese sounds very difficult, and probably impossible to learn online only (like Misanthrope learned English).
It's like, if you say a sylable in a different tone, it's a different word. So "Ma ma ma ma ma" with a different tone for each "ma" means something about taking your mule somewhere (read that somewhere don't remember what it means though). And the asian characters would take a long time to lean too, there's 10,000's of them
It's like, if you say a sylable in a different tone, it's a different word. So "Ma ma ma ma ma" with a different tone for each "ma" means something about taking your mule somewhere (read that somewhere don't remember what it means though). And the asian characters would take a long time to lean too, there's 10,000's of them
my dying groom
native
- May 27, 2001
- 2,008
- 0
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Interesting questions. Hm... how to start?
I dislike people who are seemingly quick (conclusion) drawers and found their oh so devilish scapegoat in the USA. Things aren't as easy as that. I often notice these 'wild west' attitudes (irony intended) in Europe, yet my vision could be biased because I'm dwelling there.
You might as well look at it this way:
Why does Europe ingratiate itself in terms of language usage?
Why are the so-called European 'enemies of globalisation' beaten up by the police (Genua) and generally regarded as potential terrorists?
...or in a bigger context (although it's beside the point):
Why is it that the UNO is nothing but a toothless organ when it comes to important political decisions?
Because Europe supports and profits from 'it'.
'We' (Europe) are a deliberate part of 'it'.
In other words, America's influence on Europe is obvious nowadays, but even in this case it takes two to tango.
On the contrary! I love this language, actually I'm studying it, and with regard to my special interests ('classic' literature, Middle English...) it neither is shallow nor easy to learn. It certainly is a rich language.
But, as Tenebrose stated before, the influences of American (not British) English are predominant and the results can be observed in today's commercials. Some of them aren't translated into German anymore, because the target group is supposed to speak English.
I believe 'your' tongue has the ability to 'borrow' foreign words with ease. In German such integration attempts mostly sound incredibly awkward (-> 'das handy' - instead of cell phone BTW, it's a foreign word coinage, so to speak -, 'mailen', 'tunen'), yet they are done and 'en vogue'. English is en vogue in Europe, and that's why its assimilating tendencies won't ever be questioned, I fear.
There has to be something in between: accepting a (or some?) global language(s) while constantly reminding oneself of 'origins' and respecting/preserving them - be it your own or some other - and all this WITHOUT taking the path of nationalism. What an Utopia...oops, this belongs to another thread.
I dislike people who are seemingly quick (conclusion) drawers and found their oh so devilish scapegoat in the USA. Things aren't as easy as that. I often notice these 'wild west' attitudes (irony intended) in Europe, yet my vision could be biased because I'm dwelling there.
You might as well look at it this way:
Why does Europe ingratiate itself in terms of language usage?
Why are the so-called European 'enemies of globalisation' beaten up by the police (Genua) and generally regarded as potential terrorists?
...or in a bigger context (although it's beside the point):
Why is it that the UNO is nothing but a toothless organ when it comes to important political decisions?
Because Europe supports and profits from 'it'.
'We' (Europe) are a deliberate part of 'it'.
In other words, America's influence on Europe is obvious nowadays, but even in this case it takes two to tango.
On the contrary! I love this language, actually I'm studying it, and with regard to my special interests ('classic' literature, Middle English...) it neither is shallow nor easy to learn. It certainly is a rich language.
But, as Tenebrose stated before, the influences of American (not British) English are predominant and the results can be observed in today's commercials. Some of them aren't translated into German anymore, because the target group is supposed to speak English.
I believe 'your' tongue has the ability to 'borrow' foreign words with ease. In German such integration attempts mostly sound incredibly awkward (-> 'das handy' - instead of cell phone BTW, it's a foreign word coinage, so to speak -, 'mailen', 'tunen'), yet they are done and 'en vogue'. English is en vogue in Europe, and that's why its assimilating tendencies won't ever be questioned, I fear.
There has to be something in between: accepting a (or some?) global language(s) while constantly reminding oneself of 'origins' and respecting/preserving them - be it your own or some other - and all this WITHOUT taking the path of nationalism. What an Utopia...oops, this belongs to another thread.
Why does it have to be black or white?
Since when accepting the "domination" of the US is objective? (No offence meant, but this is annoying me
)And why should it all be around the US?
Anywayz, to answer your question, I think that the whole globalization thing -want it or not- is a fact.
It has it's advantages: communication, cultural exchanges, and even maybe progress (in a good sense) of civilization.
It also has a dark side, like the dominance of one culture/language over the others and the danger of cultural extinction of the weaker countries.
It's actually in our hands to make it work for us and not against us. Therefore I dislike it when people give in the american trend, and I really get pissed with some traitor(in my point of view)-politicians.
Why should it be questioned or make as angry? Is something bad about learning foreign languages that I don't get?
It's not like we have to learn english because we can't survive otherwise..
Of course, at school age your parents make you learn languages which is something you don't like blah blah because you have to study blah blah.. But in the end it's your choice to learn or not... As far as I'm concerned, I learned english out of pure love for learning and because I liked the language itself. I actually pushed my parents to send me learn english at an earlier age
I agree with that.
And one question from me: Does anybody know how many english words have a greek origin?
Siren (who hopes she expressed herself clearly in a non-native language to her)
Obyeybyeogone
New Metal Member
I love learning languages. Right now I only partly know German, but I plan on learning more later. Living in America you really notice the "We don't need other countries" attitude. No one has any desire to learn foreign languages, no one knows anything about anything outside of the US, unless it directly affects us, such as the Afghanistan thing right now. If anyone watches Jay Leno, Jaywalking is a perfect example of this.
Melancholia
Eternal daydreamer
I will reply to the initial question:
I was actually amazed to see such a question....In my head english is always connected with Britain,probably because i was mostly learning British English (except for a short period i was studying for the Michigan Proficiency-well,i wasn't studying actually back then,i was a lazy asshole hehe)...
so when i hear the world english it is great britain that comes to my mind and not the US...thus i've never considered it as an example of US exporting culture....
nah,having to learn english didn't make me angry...i started at a very early age,mum was reading me this ladybird books since i was at the kindergarten... when i got a bit older (8 yo) i started learning in a course...stopped when i was 16 after taking my proficiency papers...
Ìt came to me completely naturally
what pisses me off is that my english used to be much better some years ago...grrrrrr
I was actually amazed to see such a question....In my head english is always connected with Britain,probably because i was mostly learning British English (except for a short period i was studying for the Michigan Proficiency-well,i wasn't studying actually back then,i was a lazy asshole hehe)...
so when i hear the world english it is great britain that comes to my mind and not the US...thus i've never considered it as an example of US exporting culture....
nah,having to learn english didn't make me angry...i started at a very early age,mum was reading me this ladybird books since i was at the kindergarten... when i got a bit older (8 yo) i started learning in a course...stopped when i was 16 after taking my proficiency papers...
Ìt came to me completely naturally
what pisses me off is that my english used to be much better some years ago...grrrrrr
TheMindzI
Denial serves me
That's what she asked.. because she doesn't know
Anyway I don't think it's got something to do with English.. almost every language uses greek words.. that's something about CULTURE.. right Wolff?
Gandalf
elite sheesha smoker
Greek used to be the common language some hundred years ago. Now English is. What do you think the next one will be?
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