Question for the non-native English speakers

Originally posted by The_Wanderer
...any thoughts on what I wrote
Yes, actually. I was going to wait til I got home from work so I could think more clearly, but I'll go ahead and respond now.

I never realized before hearing it a couple times on this board that people find it offensive that we refer to ourselves as Americans. The fact that we call ourselves that fits easily into the stereotype of Americans as self-absorbed, but I don't think this is a fair example of that.

The name of our country is the United States of America. "United Statesians" is a tad awkward, therefore "Americans" is used. It has nothing to do with the continent. I think of people from my continent as North Americans and people from your continent as South Americans -- terms that are different from just "Americans."

I can't imagine that we're treading on your turf by using this name. I'm sure you don't think of yourself as an American; you're a Chilean or a South American. Do people in South America actually use the term "American" to describe themselves?

The terms have simply come to have different meanings.
 
I think the languages spoken by the most number of people is as follows, if I were more dedicated I would find a graph with percentages etc., but what the hell, it's Saturday.

Chinese
Hindi
English
Spanish
Russian

sound about right to everyone else? the figures I've seen could have been percentages of native speakers or complete figures, I don't know.

I have noticed a trend, certainly in Asian countries, for advertising, songwriters and celebrities to incorporate English words or phrases into their lingo.

Wanderer, I think many of the "Americans" of your definition do their best to disassociate themselves from citizens of the USA. Part of forming a nationalistic identy entails independence from other sovereign states- regardless of the historical origin of names.
 
I don' t feel offended it's just that it sounds strange to me when you call yourselfs american and talk about american culture, when you say that it sounds to me that you take yourselfs as the whole continent (I know that's not the purpose it's just a think of words that I think isn't well used). We all know that your culture is very different from the culture in the other countries (even if you influence it heavy).
 
ppl who tell you that chinese is going to be the most important lanuage in 50 years, are ppl whos entire qualification to make such a statement is that they watched a programme on the discover channel where it said more ppl speak chinese than english...english is the most widely spoken language, geographically, politically, and economically...the fact that 300 million more disenfrancesed chinese peasants are said to speak a language that doesn't even exist (e.g it is not called chinese, and there is more than one 'chinese' language...this is even more the case with india, which has over 4000 different dialects) is completely unimportant...raw numbers mean nothing in such matters...why does nearly eveyone use windows? because its alot simpler than using more than one operating system, and which one will they pick? the one which, for whatever reasons, is the most wide spread and, therefore, compatable...for the same reason ppl will eventually start speaking one language, will this language be mostly based in English or Chinese? the fact that this whole discusion has been carried out in English should be a clue
 
Yet we shouldn't underestimate Spanish..
Like English, Spanish is used in many countries as first-language and also the latin population is growing bigger with a high rate

Siren (who has to get off this board now ... )
 
O yea spanish is far more beautiful but i doubt it will get as universal, unless its simplified and stupidized like english ( old english was as complex as spanish, middle english was still complex but modern english...). Today's Spanish retains much of what makes the idiom great an elegant but unless is a first language is a 1000 times harder than english, english is so popular cause its the perfect second language, easy, versatile, generally dumb proof, yet it can have dept and beauty ( not as much as Other languages but nothing is perfect ). Besides ive grown used to english lyrics so much that i cannot write spanish lyrics anymore, spanish lyrics are almost always commercial crap and it has a lot of emocional scars to try and write in spanish...but im almost shure i will in the future
 
Chinese #1 because 1.2 billion people live in China
Hindu #2 because 1 billion people live in India

They aren't spoken by very many as second languages, though.


Morgan
 
Not everyone in China speaks "Chinese" The dominant dialect is the Mandarin dialect, and I think a little over half speak that. Then there are all these other dialects that are not understandable from each other (As in you can't communicate with someone who speaks a different dialect than you). So you can't really say all 1.2 billion speak "Chinese".
 
Most metal in spanish right not are Spain power metal bands that bleed either Cheese or blue blood cause they are the Sons of the Mighty King of the obscureforgottenrealmsreference town that holds his mighty +50 sword...
 
Originally posted by Misanthrope
O yea spanish is far more beautiful but i doubt it will get as universal, unless its simplified and stupidized like english ( old english was as complex as spanish, middle english was still complex but modern english...). Today's Spanish retains much of what makes the idiom great an elegant but unless is a first language is a 1000 times harder than english, english is so popular cause its the perfect second language, easy, versatile, generally dumb proof, yet it can have dept and beauty ( not as much as Other languages but nothing is perfect ).


How in the world do you come up with such crap?
Old English was complex, middle english was still complex but modern english...??? The fact that you can communicate in English doesn't mean you are in a position to judge the complexities of the language. Modern English can be a very complex language when spoken/written like it's meant to. And it is a very austere language. Just read Satori's replies to your "stupidized" ramblings.

Furthermore "stupidized" is not a word. Perhaps you meant "dumbed-down".
 
Originally posted by TheMindzI


That's what she asked.. because she doesn't know :p
Anyway I don't think it's got something to do with English.. almost every language uses greek words.. that's something about CULTURE.. right Wolff? :)

Maybe greek words has anything to do with it, but do you know how many norwegian words there are in english? I don't... actually, but there are a considerable amount of them, that I do know, and many are very common words, like we (vi), me (meg), husbond (husbond), window (vindu/vindauge), fjord (fjord), bag (baggi)... More don't cme to mind right now, but I know I could write a pretty long list, if I had the time. Threre's some words used in scottish english, though: muss (mus - mice), huss (hus - house), bern (barn - child), gang (ganga - walk). And that have nothing to do with culture - you obviously don't have much of the norse culture in english speaking countries.
 
Originally posted by Misanthrope
English is a rather weird idiom. It can be rather annoying when you use common and vulgar words like annoying, and its very simplistic ( that is the reason is so universal because a smart monkey could learn english ) but it can also be very poetic and asome if you use some of the middle english words, i really like them and it looks more like an idiom with formal rules and everything, usually americans are not fond in synonims ( spell? ) and stick to words that become increasingly common, but if you look at lets say Opeth Lyrics or other works made by non americans or intelligent americans ( wich is rather weird to find to me ) you can find how it can be a beautiful language, easy enough to implement amazing melody lines in music but complex enough to have a very unique touch if properly spoken. English is very 2 sided to me.

The Shakespeare kind of english is very beautiful indeed! ;)
 
After all, this board is visited by native English speakers, some Scandinavians, and a smattering of Europeans (obviously all of whom speak English). It's funny to see all of these English speakers talk about how important that language is. It's not like we can get the opinion of non-English speakers who don't give a shit about learning it.

For example, one reason the Scandinavians speak such excellent English is because of all the American tv shows and movies that are shown with subtitles rather than dubbing. They grow up with the language in the same way as young people in English speaking countries. [/B][/QUOTE]

You've got some good points there. But actually, there's quite many scandinavians who don't speak english. If you meet a person about 40 or older, it's not THAT big chances you will communicate very well. And the older the person are, the less chance. There's also many younger people who don't speak very much english. There's many who don't care, but then, even among those, there are some who use an english word now and then, but they probably don't even know it. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Siren
Yet we shouldn't underestimate Spanish..
Like English, Spanish is used in many countries as first-language and also the latin population is growing bigger with a high rate

Siren (who has to get off this board now ... )

Still English will be the main language for years to come. Spanish doesn't even come close. The real reason for the triumph of English is surely the triumph of the United States. Therein lies the friction that Lina pointed out... for although a language is mainly a medium of communication, it serves as a repository of culture/identity. Though the language that now sweeps the world is called English the culture carried with it, is undoubtedly American.

I reckon English will remain the top language for years to come. As you may know Greek remained the language of commerce, Christians and of the Jews of diaspora long after Greek economical/political supremacy had come to an end. Latin continued to be the language of the church, and of any "cultured" Western European long after Rome had declined and fallen. So even if the US dominace wanes rapidly (highly unlikey!!!), the language will carry on for quite some time. Another side argument to be made is that English doesn't have any of the rigidity that Greek and Latin had, and adapts quite naturally...

Is it easy as Misanthrope claims? I don't think so. True, genders are simple, but the verbs tend to be irregular, the grammar bizarre and the match between spelling and anunciation baffling. However it is still a language of subtlety, nuance and complexity that Spanish doesn't even come close to. For example "set", an apparently simple word, can take different meaning in a sporting, cooking, social or mathematical contexts. Then as a verb it becomes "set aside", "set up", "set down", "set in", "set on", "set about", "set against" and so on. Hardly easy.
 
Originally posted by Wolff


For example "set", an apparently simple word, can take different meaning in a sporting, cooking, social or mathematical contexts. Then as a verb it becomes "set aside", "set up", "set down", "set in", "set on", "set about", "set against" and so on. Hardly easy.

This might make it a bit more confusing and "hard" to learn, but doesn't this prove the poverty of this language? Only one word to express many different things, while different words could be used to clarify the differences between the meanings.
And as far as verbs are concerned, this is one of the easiest parts of English, since verbs don't change very much in cases like the person you refer to, or the tense you are using.
 
I am American, I love America, I love the language, the extremely diverse culture (meaning all different languages, races, creeds), the openness of many different religions (fact of life, oh well, but at least in America it is ok to practice what you want). I was born here, I have a Puerto Rican mother and Dominican father. I have no idea of my heritage, but according to my hairdresser, I have Indian blood in me because of the shape of my head. Yes, America is like its own continent, and NOT like any other place in this world. Chinese are from China, and they have a Chinese past, history. Indians have Hindu, worship cows, etc. Africa has Ethiopians. What are Americans? We had the worst time trying to do our census because no one could say they were one race, I checked off about 3 things. My son has a black father, and I had a REALLY hard time figuring out what my son is. People who immigrate here call themselves where they came from plus America. So please, give us a break! Most Americans are hard-working lower and middle-class people trying to make ends meet and take care of their families. Don't judge most of America by what you see on the News, all the sensationalistic bullshit that does NOT reflect what America really is. We are all immigrants here, except for the Native Americans who are living on shitty reservations in hot ass Arizona. Where the fuck did English come from? Native Americans do not speak that language as a first language. So it was imported, just like most everyone on America. People here can be seperated into two groups: The ones who were brought in against their will and the ones who voluntarily came in to improve their lives. Most immigrants are from Europe, Asia, Latin America, Mexico, etc, and you see ALL those cultures in the American culture. So before you "diss" America, remember that most likely a part of you is being played out in our lives, whether through mannerisms, speech, whatever. American English is made up of so many greek and latin origins it's not even funny. Europeans use s's, we use z's..big deal. What's important is that we EMBRACE other cultures, even though it may not seem like it, especially with black racism and the like. But please, even in Italy there is racism - the dark Italians hate the light Italians, and in India, the light Indians see dark Indians as poor street losers because their skin color is dark due to the sun, implying that they're poor working class schmucks working under the sun. Anyway, I love America, I'm American, and I will always have pride being a part of this wonderful country.
 
Originally posted by Siren


but doesn't this prove the poverty of this language? Only one word to express many different things, while different words could be used to clarify the differences between the meanings.

damn right.. i just wanted to point that out .. but u got me.. synonyms mean a lot to a language.. and english doesn't have enough of them :)
 
Originally posted by Siren


This might make it a bit more confusing and "hard" to learn, but doesn't this prove the poverty of this language? Only one word to express many different things, while different words could be used to clarify the differences between the meanings.
And as far as verbs are concerned, this is one of the easiest parts of English, since verbs don't change very much in cases like the person you refer to, or the tense you are using.


You're still missing the point, I'm afraid.