Which is..?
I'm just trying to point out that there are far better and harder languages than english.
Question for the non-native English speakers
- Thread starter Lina
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Which is..?
I'm just trying to point out that there are far better and harder languages than english.
Wolff
New Metal Member
- May 9, 2001
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Originally posted by Siren
I'm just trying to point out that there are far better and harder languages than english.
That's not the scope of my post. My point is that English is the top language, it will continue to be that for quite a while, and contrary to the perception out there, it is a complex and difficult language.
Cheers.
Yes, but complex and difficult, me says, is subjective and depends on what you compare it with. It is difficult for some people/compared with some languages, but it's very simple and easy for other people/compared to other laguages.
Sorry if i'm saying irrelevant/incoherent things, i'm just tired
TheMindzI
Denial serves me
English is not the top language, it's just the world-wide approved language, as an "international" one I mean.. It is neither complex, nor difficult.. in that case it wouldn't be what it is today.. world-wide accepted that is.
Well, actually it is complex and difficult, language-learning IS complex and difficult most of the time, but it's quite easier than any other language. Hope u got my point
Said I'm sorry..
Anyway, I can't have an opinion on how easy Spanish is, since I don't speak it.
Wolff
New Metal Member
- May 9, 2001
- 2,794
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Originally posted by TheMindzI
English is not the top language, it's just the world-wide approved language, as an "international" one I mean.. It is neither complex, nor difficult.. in that case it wouldn't be what it is today.. world-wide accepted that is.
Well, actually it is complex and difficult, language-learning IS complex and difficult most of the time, but it's quite easier than any other language. Hope u got my point
You don't have a point. Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make you right. To esatblish a point you need to bring examples and use reasoning. So far you've done none. I'll give you another chance. I'm patient with the Greeks today
Originally posted by Wolff
I'm patient with the Greeks today
LMAO
Thank your Majesty for your kindness
However, you should know I'm only giving up for now 'cause I'm tired, not because I lack reasoning. When I'm a bit more awake I'm sure I can find some
TheMindzI
Denial serves me
Originally posted by Wolff
You don't have a point. Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make you right. To esatblish a point you need to bring examples and use reasoning. So far you've done none. I'll give you another chance. I'm patient with the Greeks today
Huh? Wtf did I repeat?
I think it was short and straight to the point.. and it was just my 2nd post here.. if I'm not mistaken.. I don't think I stated the same things twice.. I think I'm smarter than that Give yourself a chance and get a life malaka 
Fjelltussa
...
Just thought to say (since there has been so much negative written here about America), that there are things I like very much about the US. As the way everybody seem to be so proud and independent, not taking it for granted that others (society/the government) will take care of them for them. That's very positive, I think. Sometimes the well-fare system can take it a bit to long, making poeple act like spoiled bastard kids.
Sullen Jester
Corporate Executive
Originally posted by TheMindzI
Well, actually it is complex and difficult, language-learning IS complex and difficult most of the time, but it's quite easier than any other language. Hope u got my point
This part I agree with you on.
Once you learn a langauge, certain languages would be hard to learn.
For me, it's been impossible going from English to Japanese.
The structuring of sentences, the identification system, the .. uh.. it's all too hard
I don't think the "it's quite easier than any other language" part is 100% correct.
While it may be easier in the long term from someone, say, from Japan who want's to manage a business conglomerate. He can go through international meetings without an interpreter. Okay, that'll make everything easier, except maybe LEARNING it.
Learning all the 'rules' of a language is very hard, and some "foreign" people I know can speak English like they were brought up on it, but when it comes to certain things (Synonyms I think it is) they are totally fucked, because they cannot understand how it works.
Some languages, though, are easier to learn from others (Greek > Russian, as all (I think) the Greek letters are incorporated into the Russian alphabet, albeit a larger one), so depending on your native language, some languages will be easy to learn, some will be hard, and a few will be off-limits to you.
I think..
tintin
Member
Two points about English:
It's easy to learn to speak bad English as there's so much English around (movies, music, tv, computer software, Internet), but to speak grammatically correct English requires as much study and practice as any of the hardest languages. The thing is, most people, including native-English speakers (ebonics anyone?), don't care about correct grammar.
Another factor in people readily picking up English is that Americans, in a lot of the culture that they send out to the world, speak so damn slow. I can't think of another language that has the slow pace of English. I spent five years studying Russian and became fluent to the point of reading Tolstoy and Bulgakov in the original, but when it comes to the rapid fire delivery of newscasters, actors, and such, I'm still lost.
It's easy to learn to speak bad English as there's so much English around (movies, music, tv, computer software, Internet), but to speak grammatically correct English requires as much study and practice as any of the hardest languages. The thing is, most people, including native-English speakers (ebonics anyone?), don't care about correct grammar.
Another factor in people readily picking up English is that Americans, in a lot of the culture that they send out to the world, speak so damn slow. I can't think of another language that has the slow pace of English. I spent five years studying Russian and became fluent to the point of reading Tolstoy and Bulgakov in the original, but when it comes to the rapid fire delivery of newscasters, actors, and such, I'm still lost.
FYI, the American welfare system has been improved! The government put in place a 5-year limit on the amount of help you can get about 5 years ago, so many people that started receiving assistance are seeing the end of the line. Also, the "welfare to work" program has helped many people get on their feet. And speaking as someone who was on welfare for a short while, it came as a tremendous help when I needed it. Yes, there are people who act like "spoiled bastard kids" on it, but there are also people who just needed a helping hand and are now productive, and/or successful in their communities.
You know, I would worry more about people who don't speak Ebonics and have horrible english grammar than people who do speak Ebonics. They have books on "Ebonics, the new Urban language" and that sort of thing. Ebonics can be equated to Patois (or however you spell it), and it's just an adjustment to the English language. Every language has those words which are considered wrong by the conservative group but right by the community or small group that uses those words. "Hype" and "Dope" are the equivalents of "Cool," and "Rox," and I see plenty of people using "Cool" and "Rox" here. These are all forms of slang, and every language has it. One problem that I see is when a person from one group uses terms that are unfamiliar to another group, that person is then alienated by that group. Since the other group does not understand the slang of the person trying to communicate, they view it as "uncommunicative," "dumb," "horrible grammar." We all just need to embrace the differences in "slang" from different groups, then we'd all get along! (I am unbelievably simplifying the "get along" part, but you know what I mean, I hope).
However, here is the problem with this argument: Oftentimes, black people know only ebonics. I'm sure you wouldn't say "this company rox" at a job interview. If black people segregate themselves through language, what hope do they ever have of assimilating enough to climb out of their second-class status? Are they planning on only working for black-owned business with black clients? Or will they be confined to a life of fast-food jobs?Originally posted by Jannet
You know, I would worry more about people who don't speak Ebonics and have horrible english grammar than people who do speak Ebonics. They have books on "Ebonics, the new Urban language" and that sort of thing. Ebonics can be equated to Patois (or however you spell it), and it's just an adjustment to the English language. Every language has those words which are considered wrong by the conservative group but right by the community or small group that uses those words. "Hype" and "Dope" are the equivalents of "Cool," and "Rox," and I see plenty of people using "Cool" and "Rox" here. These are all forms of slang, and every language has it. One problem that I see is when a person from one group uses terms that are unfamiliar to another group, that person is then alienated by that group. Since the other group does not understand the slang of the person trying to communicate, they view it as "uncommunicative," "dumb," "horrible grammar." We all just need to embrace the differences in "slang" from different groups, then we'd all get along! (I am unbelievably simplifying the "get along" part, but you know what I mean, I hope).
And oftentimes, some white people only know "trailer trash" vocabulary. Your rebuttal only applies to SOME black people, and there are plenty of black people that are quite learned and intelligent and/or who don't use ebonics. Black people are not trying to segregate themselves through language; the people who don't understand them are segregating the black people. Take for instance rap music. Rap does not bother me, since I understand that Black people are trying to build a legit culture and history, and this is one way, musically, that they're doing it. But most of my metal friends HATE Rap, stating that "it's not music," "it's stupid." Why? Because they don't understand. Since it's a relatively new form of music, the majority class shun it, writing it off as "junk." But most Blacks relate to it, and it's THEIRS. This "second-class status" you speak of is racism-based, since blacks were used as slaves years ago, and it's been quite difficult for blacks to shake off that history. And why are you under the impression that Blacks are in a "second-class" status in the first place? You just gave evidence to the still-present racist beliefs that are in existence today. And Blacks are not confined to life at fast-food jobs - on the contrary, there are PLENTY of whites, plus other races, at these fast-food joints. You must remember, in America, segregation was in existence not too long ago ('60's, I believe), which is not much time to change an entire society's conventional thinking. And I'm Puerto Rican, and I can tell you this: when I drop in to the Yahoo "white power" chats to see what the idiots are talking about, and when I mention that I'm Puerto Rican, AFTER I make thoughtful comments, intelligently, do you know what they say? "Look at that spic, she's reading from a dictionary, she's TRYING to sound intelligent, that spic ape." Ponder on that for a minute and tell me what you think about that.
tintin
Member
I for one find myself amazed at times listening to conversations among young black people, all the slang and wordplay that goes on. It's almost like listening to jazz, the way people can seemingly improvise their speech and take it on these crazy tangents. The richness of their vocabulary is also remarkable. Of course, this isn't speaking of all or even most black people, language varies widely among that community.
However, for all the inventiveness and color of slang and "ebonics", this type of speech will always be looked at by society as "street" and "uneducated". Truth is, anybody who is only comfortable expressing themselves with street slang, curses, and distortions of grammar (such as saying "I be ...", etc.), will almost certainly find themselves ostracized in the workplace as well as by people who feel threatened by that language. That just the way it is and will be.
While Jannet feels that a big step in all of us getting along is by having the majority accept the minority's speech, I think that minority has a big role to play by becoming more familiar and comfortable with that majority's language. After all, the immigrant groups coming to the US are learning the English that will help them succeed the easiest. Considering the long history of the segregation of black people, there's no reason why they too can't concentrate on the language of success and advancement.
However, for all the inventiveness and color of slang and "ebonics", this type of speech will always be looked at by society as "street" and "uneducated". Truth is, anybody who is only comfortable expressing themselves with street slang, curses, and distortions of grammar (such as saying "I be ...", etc.), will almost certainly find themselves ostracized in the workplace as well as by people who feel threatened by that language. That just the way it is and will be.
While Jannet feels that a big step in all of us getting along is by having the majority accept the minority's speech, I think that minority has a big role to play by becoming more familiar and comfortable with that majority's language. After all, the immigrant groups coming to the US are learning the English that will help them succeed the easiest. Considering the long history of the segregation of black people, there's no reason why they too can't concentrate on the language of success and advancement.
Just the simple fact that Blacks are viewed as "minority" is sickening. Can you understand why Blacks have taken such a radical form of music and called it their own? Can you understand why, when I speak to someone who grew up in the ghetto, they ask me, "Why do you talk white?" With this quote:
and this:
It's not hard to see why. This is sickening, and with this mentality, Blacks will NEVER have any history except for calling whites 'massa.'
and this:
It's not hard to see why. This is sickening, and with this mentality, Blacks will NEVER have any history except for calling whites 'massa.'
tintin
Member
Jannet, I really don't see your point. Blacks are a minority because there are far fewer of them than whites, that's what a minority is. Whites are the majority because there are more of them. It's not a racist statement.
Why is it insulting to suggest that black people along with white people need to adapt to each other? You yourself said "We all just need to embrace the differences in "slang" from different groups, then we'd all get along!" In say "we all" do you mean whites and Puerto Ricans but not blacks.
The thing is, by speaking ebonics and slang, the admittedly ignorant impression will be given that this person has spent a lifetime in the ghetto and as a result doesn't have the manners and intelligenct of the suburbanites. Of course it's ignorant, but all I'm saying is that it's a reality. Black people don't need to change themselves and become more white, and adapting to the language being spoken in non-black society isn't doing so.
Why is it insulting to suggest that black people along with white people need to adapt to each other? You yourself said "We all just need to embrace the differences in "slang" from different groups, then we'd all get along!" In say "we all" do you mean whites and Puerto Ricans but not blacks.
The thing is, by speaking ebonics and slang, the admittedly ignorant impression will be given that this person has spent a lifetime in the ghetto and as a result doesn't have the manners and intelligenct of the suburbanites. Of course it's ignorant, but all I'm saying is that it's a reality. Black people don't need to change themselves and become more white, and adapting to the language being spoken in non-black society isn't doing so.
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