question

Clifton said:
ok ok BS I m not telling you that you are wrong in being an atheist ok? But pls just as much as you have the right to believe in something, I have the right to do so too. I've read something about all types of religion, and spent some time as an atheist too but I have found fulfillment in christianity. Anyway for me as long as we humans live a life which fulfills us and our loved ones it's ok, and it does not matter what religion you follow. Furthermore do not call me brainwashed , cause I am not. If I have read the bible and believed in it, maybe you have read another book by an atheist and agreed with his beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day everybody is influenced, and as long as we humans do not do harm to each other and live in peace it's ok:)

lol @mike's comment keep on rockin'man:))
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Well said :)
 
It makes no difference to me, the religious beliefs of the bands i listen to. Im a Christian and it's nice to hear a band who shares that, but alot of the bands i listen to and look up to are not Christian or even anti-religious. Honestly, most of the straight up Christian bands who's every song is about being saved, who preach to their fans at shows,and tell them how to live are rather annoying. It would be ignorant and short-sighted to ignore a band based on their religious beliefs. I think Mikael was probably joking when he said Satanism just to get a reaction from people, but even is wasn't, who cares, I'll still continue to buy everything that Opeth puts out.
 
I'm an atheist, and very anti-religious. I am however not an evangelical atheist, so if you don't put your belief in my face, I won't put my non-belief in your face. Sadly many believers have a problem with abstaining from this, and there is also the fact that many believers are led by their religious beliefs in their political decisions, often choosing for their irrational religious beliefs where they conflict with science.
As for religious lyrics in music (mostly satanic and christian), I am often turned off of this type of music because of my disgust with religion.
 
Clifton said:
If I have read the bible and believed in it, maybe you have read another book by an atheist and agreed with his beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day everybody is influenced, and as long as we humans do not do harm to each other and live in peace it's ok
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This sort of reasoning is erroneous, because atheism implies nothing more than a lack of belief in a god. It is not a belief system. You cannot become an atheist because of agreeing with someone elses beliefs, because atheism has no inherent beliefs. You can only become an atheist by being unconvinced by the arguments for the existance of any deity. Faith in a deity is blind, it lacks any rational foundation.
 
OK lol this is maybe taking too long and Im bored of this thread, at the end of the day what is imp in this forum is that we all enjoy Opeth, cause in my opinion they are the most artistic prog metal band, alongside with tool in the world today.
One last world about this religion thing Opethian666 my faith in God is not blind, I don't believe everything I read about and hear, and I have still my own doubts which I will probably never unchian, but at least I try. The worst thing you can do is to have a blind faith in anything, and I am still trying to understand Him through every experience I go through in my life. And pls for those who try to disprove the existence of God or find proofs for His existence (I know countless books have been published on this topic such as The God Delusion):- as much as the existence of God cannot be proven, it is impossible to disprove it. We can never understand where we came from and where are we going if there is an afterlife after all, but there are some who put their fiath in something they call God, and there are others who do not. Fine:)
 
Clifton said:
One last world about this religion thing Opethian666 my faith in God is not blind, I don't believe everything I read about and hear, and I have still my own doubts which I will probably never unchian, but at least I try. The worst thing you can do is to have a blind faith in anything, and I am still trying to understand Him through every experience I go through in my life. And pls for those who try to disprove the existence of God or find proofs for His existence (I know countless books have been published on this topic such as The God Delusion):- as much as the existence of God cannot be proven, it is impossible to disprove it. We can never understand where we came from and where are we going if there is an afterlife after all, but there are some who put their fiath in something they call God, and there are others who do not. Fine
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Obviously the existance of a deity cannot be absolutely proven or disproven, the question is whether it is rational to believe in this existance. If your faith in god is not blind, what is your rational foundation to support your belief? Is there any reasonable evidence at all that a deity must exist? If not, then is that not the very definition of blind belief? Sure, you can have personal reasons to have a belief, but if you cannot support them, be prepared to accept that your belief might not be as rational as you want it to be, and can in fact be called blind.
 
People like StAquinas wrote whole volumes in the middle ages by putting a rational argument to proof the existence of God, cause I did these when I studied philosophy at university but I believe that the question of the existence of God is beyond us, and it is just a matter of belief or non belief. The argument is not whether your faith is blind or not. With our human limitations we can never know the truth about God or his existence, but what I meant by having faith backed by reason was let me take an example: the story of Adam and Eve for me is only symbolism because now science has told us about evolution. The Bible is not a fairy story, you need to take its essence and let it guide you through life.
 
Clifton said:
People like StAquinas wrote whole volumes in the middle ages by putting a rational argument to proof the existence of God, cause I did these when I studied philosophy at university but I believe that the question of the existence of God is beyond us, and it is just a matter of belief or non belief. The argument is not whether your faith is blind or not. With our human limitations we can never know the truth about God or his existence, but what I meant by having faith backed by reason was let me take an example: the story of Adam and Eve for me is only symbolism because now science has told us about evolution. The Bible is not a fairy story, you need to take its essence and let it guide you through life.
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There have been attempts by Thomas Aquinas, Anselm and numerous other philosophers throughout the course of history to prove the existence of a god, but each and every one of these "proofs" is fundamentally flawed, even ridiculous when read in this modern age. If you want to show that your belief is not blind, you need to present a rational foundation that does not collapse upon closer inspection. Whether it is possible or not to prove or disprove a god is meaningless when it comes to determining whether belief or nonbelief in this god is blind, or has a rational foundation. It is impossible to prove that there is not an invisible, weightless, magical purple hippo hovering above your head. Whether it is meaningful or rational to believe that there is one, is another question. As for your example of faith backed by reason, this is not what I am talking about. It is the pure essence of belief in the existence of a deity, and whether this is rational or not. What you are talking about is finding wisdom in an ancient text, something entirely else.
 
Hmmm this is getting a bit difficult, but I've enyoyed it, at least even if we have different beliefs we have showed that we can discuss maturely, and for this I thank you all.
And about the last thing on the bible if you are an atheist the problem is that unfortunately we cannot agree because for us christians it is a sacred text and the word of God and not a piece of history.
 
Clifton said:
Hmmm this is getting a bit difficult, but I've enyoyed it, at least even if we have different beliefs we have showed that we can discuss maturely, and for this I thank you all.
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I agree, even though beliefs may differ, and even if individuals, like me, are disgusted by certain beliefs, they should never be tempted to direct this disgust from the belief to the believer. Like Jesus presumably said: hate the sin, not the sinner.
And about the last thing on the bible if you are an atheist the problem is that unfortunately we cannot agree because for us christians it is a sacred text and the word of God and not a piece of history.
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I understand, but again, this is a blind belief. The only reasoning to validate the bible as a sacred text is a circular, and thus faulty one. The bible is sacred and true because it is god's word, and god exists because the bible says so.
 
in_absentia said:
some of it is good!
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(on christian rock/metal, page 1)

agreed.

As far as Mikael is concerned, he's an atheist and anything he says otherwise is a joke. Come on people, he's had you guys tell him to fuck off, etc at gigs. He's a sarcastic joker and it's great, but apparently people don't understand his humor lol

@Opethian666: your point that philosophical "proofs" of God's existence as faulty is valid. None are without flaw, but then also, neither are the "proofs" against God's existence without flaw, so at the present, there is no conclusive answer until better arguments are created.
 
Proof doesn't mean anything to someone that believes in God. It's a matter of faith, which is essentially a lack of proof. Even if you could hypothetically proove god doesn't exist, people would still believe because they would have blind faith. kinda sucks
 
If you want to boil it down to it's truest essence...then faith = fear of dying = I wonder if you can beat off in heaven?.. shit...that might be illegal!!!
 
Has everyone forgotten Mike is Jesus? Shame on all of you.

Debating religion is fruitless, guys. You can't force someone to have faith, and not everyone feels hopeless and in need of a God. Some people look at the facts of life, science, morality, etc. and determine there is no God. Others see those same facts and determine that there is a God. Some people only believe what they were taught as children. I was raised in a fundamental Christian home (ie speaking in tongues, creationism, evolution is the devil, demons are everywhere omg, etc) and now I'm as liberal minded as they come, though I still believe in the core values of Christianity (ie, Jesus died for the sins of the world, there is one God, etc.). I came to my conclusions after lots of thinking, and many things remain unclear to me. But other people might see what I've seen and say, "Clearly, there is no God." and that is fine for them.

And still day, masturbation isn't a sin, so I don't see why you can't beat off as much as your little heart wants.
 
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