Racism

[Patrick R.]

that guy just needs to get his money back for his biology books from "Dr." Pierce.

You are correct! I did just that…I just got done watching save the last dance and guess what? I no longer believe in race! It was just an invention by the evil white man!

 

[Pessimism]

^ I'm sorry that is just funny

 

[darcy]

So in other words why not sub-divide humans even further? At one period they were. You are correct when people only use those three races, that is being obscure. There is three way pattern with those three races by the way. But in any case, there are many more human races then that…with white Europeans and black Africans there are sub-divisions within those races. With Europeans we have Nordic, Alpine, and Mediterranean and any serious anthropologist could sub-divide Europeans even further.

And those are fine terms to use generally, but to concretely define a race is impossible, riduculous, and pointless. What is constructive about categorizing something so malleable as human genetic makeup? Studying population trends is one thing... trying to reinforce ideas of racial segregation does nothing productive or insightful.

 

[Patrick R.]

And those are fine terms to use generally, but to concretely define a race is impossible, riduculous, and pointless. What is constructive about categorizing something so malleable as human genetic makeup? Studying population trends is one thing... trying to reinforce ideas of racial segregation does nothing productive or insightful.

What is wrong with that? All you have to do is use common sense. It all depends about what you consider constructive, if you consider it constructive to have solutions to genetic race specific diseases then you will put humans into categories, rather then just lump us all together. We don’t have to force segregation…nature does that for us.

 

[Thrymfal]

if it all depends on what an individual considers constructive then it lacks a firm base of logic.

 

[Phoenix Wright]

You are correct! I did just that…I just got done watching save the last dance and guess what? I no longer believe in race! It was just an invention by the evil white man!

Pretty awesome that after all those words trying to present an objective stance, you destroyed it all with this testimony.

 

[Patrick R.]

Pretty awesome that after all those words trying to present an objective stance, you destroyed it all with this testimony.

Go back and look I who I was talking to. But that is the counter argument against race, that it was made up by the white man to oppress other races. But that argument falls flat on it’s face when inspected closely, for example when the Arabs when down to centuries before Europeans their descriptions of the Africans were identical to that of European explorers. So to say whites made race to oppress others is factually incorrect.

 

[darcy]

What is wrong with that? All you have to do is use common sense. It all depends about what you consider constructive, if you consider it constructive to have solutions to genetic race specific diseases then you will put humans into categories, rather then just lump us all together. We don’t have to force segregation…nature does that for us.

But that categorization inevitably relies on phenotypic traits, typicaly obviously visible ones. Because those different genetic traits don't really come as a "package deal" aside from some geographically-specific adaptations, racial categorization is flawed. You can categorize the individual features, that's fine, and you can even track tendencies within populations, but to bring it to the point where you stamp someone as "race a", "race b" etc you're inviting an oversimplified version of genetics.

 

[Patrick R.]

But that categorization inevitably relies on phenotypic traits, typicaly obviously visible ones. Because those different genetic traits don't really come as a "package deal" aside from some geographically-specific adaptations, racial categorization is flawed. You can categorize the individual features, that's fine, and you can even track tendencies within populations, but to bring it to the point where you stamp someone as "race a", "race b" etc you're inviting an oversimplified version of genetics.

Scientists studying the DNA of 52 human groups from around the world have concluded that people belong to five principal groups corresponding to the major geographical regions of the world: Africa, Europe, Asia, Melanesia and the Americas.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9500E3DE1E3DF933A15751C1A9649C8B63

A few other relevant quotes :

The study, based on scans of the whole human genome, is the most thorough to look for patterns corresponding to major geographical regions. These regions broadly correspond with popular notions of race, the researchers said in interviews.

The researchers did not analyze genes but rather short segments of DNA known as markers, similar to those used in DNA fingerprinting tests, that have no apparent function in the body.

The study, published today in Science, finds that ''self-reported population ancestry likely provides a suitable proxy for genetic ancestry.'' In other words, someone saying he is of European ancestry will have genetic similarities to other Europeans.

Several scientific journal editors have said references to race should be avoided. But a leading population geneticist, Dr. Neil Risch of Stanford University, argued recently that race was a valid area of medical research because it reflects the genetic differences that arose on each continent after the ancestral human population dispersed from its African homeland.

The categorization doesn’t really on phenotypic alone, as this article points out people with European ancestry will have genetic similarities to other Europeans and so on. That in itself is just to obvious, it is only the nut cases who wish to deny it, but even the most fanatical Marxist are interested in their paternal/maternal origins, they are proving that they are all to human, just like the rest of us.


Now I know how scientist like Copernicus must of felt like during the Dark Ages of Europe. The denial of such obvious fields of study, even though it has been proven beyond a doubt centuries beforehand is truly pathetic. But even then the most extreme of the theological nuts were interested in reality.

 

[Pessimism]

^ I know for a fact what you are referring too happens to just be genetic markers in the genome that show past history of migration; hwoever, I do not completely know why these markers show up

Hence I must leave it at that.




But to me the general term of race is usually limited to the phenotypic data (as that is typically how the term is used). Instead of labelling this thread racism, why not have just brought up an argument on genetics? the term racism is itself a loaded word...which implies more statements (and history) that you have been agreeing with and not agreeing with.

 

[Thrymfal]

don't worry pal, evolution will continue to march onward whether the people are kept separate or not. Someday, the arguments will be the same, but the parameters entirely different. As i've repeatedly said, race is just a byproduct of climate, but climate has been defeated, so who knows what's coming next. It ain't like the idiots walking the earth now are the end of the evolutionary line, that's for sure.

 

[darcy]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9500E3DE1E3DF933A15751C1A9649C8B63

A few other relevant quotes :



The categorization doesn’t really on phenotypic alone, as this article points out people with European ancestry will have genetic similarities to other Europeans and so on. That in itself is just to obvious, it is only the nut cases who wish to deny it, but even the most fanatical Marxist are interested in their paternal/maternal origins, they are proving that they are all to human, just like the rest of us.


Now I know how scientist like Copernicus must of felt like during the Dark Ages of Europe. The denial of such obvious fields of study, even though it has been proven beyond a doubt centuries beforehand is truly pathetic. But even then the most extreme of the theological nuts were interested in reality.

That's an interesting read, thanks for the link. That doesn't seem to have much relationship with earlier, "traditional" studies of race, which did rely on an arbitrary selection phentypic traits though, which was the allegedly scientific justification for racism (and subsequent racial hatred)... and also the topic at hand.

I'm also curious about how it relates to those with particularly diverse heritage (eg. an Asian father and African mother)- does a child inherit these genes from both parents? How are they categorized? It still seems to rely on fairly general terms.

I can see how this research is quite valuable, but I think the term "race" to describe these findings is asking for trouble. On the other hand, focusing on disease rather than the traditional topics of fertility & mental capacity could possibly deflate these issues.

 

[Ghaldez]

i think we shouldn't break our heads about
we are all viking freaks and shout stand together