Racism

[Thrymfal]

Nitpicking about my choice of wording shows that you don't care about the substance of my argument, just its wording. But for the record, i know the difference between monkeys and apes.

and FYI: america was not a country founded by whites for whites, america was a country founded by the british for the british. The "aliens" that were tearing the country apart and caused the alien and sedition act to get passed were French, German, Dutch. The British held "Englishmen" as the highest form of humanity since the ancient greek ideal.

I don't understand how anyone can say "I'm not racist, but the races should be kept seperate" it's just a glorified way of saying "keep them my pals out of my gene pool" but here's a clue, either way you say it, it means the same thing.

And by the way, I'm very anti PC, and think that the freedom of speech is the absolute guaranteed right to offend.

and while i'm on the subject...doesn't it go Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species. Is race just tacked on the end there somewhere? Once again, humanity is arrogant enuogh to assume it gets its own categories. "we're special, we're different, sure we eat, shit, fuck, and die like all the other animals...but we're different."

 

[Pessimism]

Uhmm…yeah, the Japanese actually conquered there lands n the first place and assimilated the Ainu peoples within their own. This is why some of the genetic differences as build and amount of hair are different within Japanese society. Not only that but my friend Ryo tells me there is actually some bad feeling about it over there, as they tend to be more athletic than other “typical” Japanese people (comparable to how whites act towards blacks here)
And just because they are homogenous does not mean there are ethnic problems; many Asians don’t like other Asians; it’s comparable to the Scottish hating the English; obviously there “stability” as you put it, doesn’t rely on your statement about homogeny.

And it doesn’t contradict anything in anthropology because the things you are stating are not even within the realms of anthropology. I myself and three others on this board have continually been going over the fields of anthropology (be it physical, cultural, linguistical, etc.) – your own thoughts about it on the field of anthro are outdated. It would be like if I was trying to profess those bullshit “14 words” using social Darwinist rhetoric. And the reason I keep putting forth the trinity (social/culture/religion) is because that makes up a large part of life for us; the very fact you say it cannot ever match up to influence us as much as genetics do is just awkward and unreasonable.


And no one has said hereditary hasn’t played a role – that is the whole point of adaptation through genetics. There not false because you aren’t following the basis for the arguments were putting forth.

Religious disputes can be settled through assimilation, racial disputes can only be settled by separation.

I’m sorry but both these statements are completely false. You yourself keep bringing up history – but putting forth a statement like this loses credibility as assimilation has never been easy, just as separation cannot ever be proven unless it is stated that our genetic code between “races” (which should be labeled as subspecies if were making this much of a difference in people) is unanimously different from each other. But the funny fact is, is that this has already been proven to be false – as already mentioned (and I’ve mentioned it on here and the philosophy board when it used to be worth posting on) that genetics between your concept of “race” is far more different (i.e. A German has far more genetic difference than a Swede or a Finn than that of a white compared with a black)


And not only do I choose Judaism over Christianity (or should I rephrase, I choose modern Reform Judaism over the entirety of Christianity), I choose it based on how they deal with there religion: Orthopraxy vs. Orthodoxy. I know the role of the Kohan’im, and they play about an important part of the modern Levites do in traditional ceremony now (which is barely anything at all). If you are going to argue that Judaism is a race you are solely wrong. Judaism as it is foremost a culture and a religion; there are many other ways Judaism affects everyday life, but racially is not one of them. Although you are no doubt basing your argument in the “chosen people” passages, then you should also know that Jews willingly reflect on there biblical ancestry, and most Jews don’t accept any racial leanings (ahhh, the evolution of religion in society – something Christians caught onto very late in the game) – the entire point to Judaism is right action, you can even be an atheist and still be a Jew (NOT because of race, but because of culture, or even just by other Jews if you perform Torah, or anything beneficial). You should actually read some Midrash if you haven’t; I highly suggest it; the whole point of Judaism today is to question the authenticity of views instead of taking things as is. To go over the supposed words of God (which were admittingly not the words of God, more so they were produced by inspiration – of course this also depends on your faith and knowledge.

Jewish Genotype = bullshit by the way.

Dr. Hammer of the University of Arizona discovered that they all descend from a single male ancestor…amazing.

Interestingly enough either this author is merely talking about religious text or he’s an orthodox idiot with a bible strapped to his head– either way my first paragraph on Judaism should be enough for that quote.

 

[Patrick R.]

Sorry, dude. I am one of those "serious" people that work with ancient human remains, and I can tell you it doesn't work that way. If it did, we'd know who settled this continent first, and who brought Indo-European to Europe for example, but we don't. Only DNA can differentiate, and it doesn't differentiate according to "race", which is why we do not test for "race", but for kin and sex. There are some differences between skeletal remains, but they, too, do not differ by "race"(unless you want to differentiate a neanderthal from a sapien, but there are no neanderthals left today, so we don't need to render them extinct). I am not saying that because of any political stance or whatever, but just as an FYI, since you made a factual error in your post.

Are you kidding me? I made a factually incorrect statement? You are trying to tell me you couldn’t tell the difference between a Negros skull and a Orientals skull? If so that is very sad. When you talk about Indo-Europeans for example, they are a linguistic group, we don’t know their origins. But now that you mention it, the Tocharian’s, they spoke an Indo European language but we know they were a lot more then a linguistic group, they were European racially.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/chinamum/taklamakan.html

That goes for the Aryans of India, who came to the area, conquered it, and set up a class based on whiteness. The top classes are the lightest in coloring, whereas the darkest are the lowest. You have the priest class on top and the untouchables at the bottom.


As far as this business goes with the Neanderthals, they aren’t related to Europeans, genetics has proved that. But in any case skeletal remains do differ by race. Only a fool would deny something like that…even within the Europeans you have different skull shapes, some are ‘long’ (dolichocranial), and some are ‘round’.

 

[Patrick R.]

I never set out to be politically correct... I wish to be factually correct, and as far as I can tell the concept of "race" is a flawed one.

Nobody is denying the fact that people vary from place to place, it's a matter of whether or not we fit into convenient little groups or not... or perhaps, convenient big groups. Which we don't. For years people tried to solidify the theory that humans fit into 3 races: caucausian, negroid, and mongoloid. But the guidelines of those races are horribly defined, and leave out a large portion of humanity- native Americans, for example, as well as Polynesians, Australian Aboriginals, etc- people who don't conveniently slot into "white" "black" or "other".

Race is an easy way to describe someone's appearance and maybe their background, but trying to make any sort of serious judgement behind it is unfortunate and misinformed.

So in other words why not sub-divide humans even further? At one period they were. You are correct when people only use those three races, that is being obscure. There is three way pattern with those three races by the way. But in any case, there are many more human races then that…with white Europeans and black Africans there are sub-divisions within those races. With Europeans we have Nordic, Alpine, and Mediterranean and any serious anthropologist could sub-divide Europeans even further.

 

[Patrick R.]

And just because the founders of anthropology and other biological sciences were racist does not mean that there is a correlation about those positions being true today; the whole point of science is to advance and gain knowledge; not hang on to archaic knowledge that has been proved false due to cultural bias.

You missed the point…the founders of evolution believed in race, they were able to get past the theological nuts but they weren’t able to get around the liberal nut cases. But in any case the truth will prevail, anybody with one eye could see the difference between a black African from an Oriental. But you are correct, we can gain knowledge about science, that is why we have genetics, and that is why we have discovered race specific hereditary diseases…sickle cell anemia in blacks and Hereditary Hemochromatosis for whites. I'm sorry, Darwin hasn’t been proved incorrect with all of his work, on the contrary, much of his theories have been confirmed or strongly confirmed by archeology and genetics.

 

[Patrick R.]

Uhmm…yeah, the Japanese actually conquered there lands n the first place and assimilated the Ainu peoples within their own. This is why some of the genetic differences as build and amount of hair are different within Japanese society. Not only that but my friend Ryo tells me there is actually some bad feeling about it over there, as they tend to be more athletic than other “typical” Japanese people (comparable to how whites act towards blacks here)

Well, yes, there has been mixing of the human races, but Japan is a racially homogenous society why you are trying to argue about it is beyond me. By here you go, now you are confirming racial difference…you are talking about hereditary. Well, I guess we are making progress. Now you are detailing to me that heredity plays a role in athletic capabilities. I think you watch a little to much television…are you trying to tell me whites get some “bad felling” toward blacks because they can play basketball better then us? And it is the same in Japan? So what do we have here? Tension between peoples because of (hereditary) differences? Well, it looks like this only confirms my position.

And just because they are homogenous does not mean there are ethnic problems; many Asians don’t like other Asians; it’s comparable to the Scottish hating the English; obviously there “stability” as you put it, doesn’t rely on your statement about homogeny.

Ethnic divisions can be dealt with…take a look at the United States when all of the different Europeans settled and became Americanized overnight, in marked contrast to African America who have wanted to set up black homelands in Africa for decades. Could you actually say African Americans became ‘white’ the same way the Irish did, after awhile?

And it doesn’t contradict anything in anthropology because the things you are stating are not even within the realms of anthropology. I myself and three others on this board have continually been going over the fields of anthropology (be it physical, cultural, linguistical, etc.) – your own thoughts about it on the field of anthro are outdated. It would be like if I was trying to profess those bullshit “14 words” using social Darwinist rhetoric.

Yes it is in the ‘realms’ of anthropology…what because I don’t embrace the politically correct dogmas of Boaz (who believed in racial differences by the way)? I prefer Darwinism over the egalitarian nonsense of ‘racial equality’ even though the humans differ in practically everyway possible. Like I said, you can give apes divisions but not humans? Evolution diversified all forms of life besides humans? Yeah right, we are suppose to believe that nonsense, coming from people who actually believe in race but they refuse to admit it to the masses?

And the reason I keep putting forth the trinity (social/culture/religion) is because that makes up a large part of life for us; the very fact you say it cannot ever match up to influence us as much as genetics do is just awkward and unreasonable.

It does make up a large part of life for us, but genetics has much more influence…take my example of the Middle East (who are mainly Muslims and are killing each other) to Japan where they aren’t killing each other, regardless of religion. That is why the people of Japan NEVER allowed Europeans to settle there in large numbers, they new very well what would happen.

And no one has said hereditary hasn’t played a role – that is the whole point of adaptation through genetics. There not false because you aren’t following the basis for the arguments were putting forth.

Likewise, culture plays a role, but not near the way biology does.

I’m sorry but both these statements are completely false. You yourself keep bringing up history – but putting forth a statement like this loses credibility as assimilation has never been easy, just as separation cannot ever be proven unless it is stated that our genetic code between “races” (which should be labeled as subspecies if were making this much of a difference in people) is unanimously different from each other. But the funny fact is, is that this has already been proven to be false
– as already mentioned (and I’ve mentioned it on here and the philosophy board when it used to be worth posting on) that genetics between your concept of “race” is far more different

Assimilation has been easy…look at the Europeans that came to America during the 1900’s. They were of the same racial stock as their brothers and sisters who wrote gained independence from England, wrote the constitution, created the Federal government, prevented the Union from splitting in two. Because America is a European creation, other Europeans could come here and assimilate in marked contrast to Latin Americans, and Middle Easterners etc. Hispanics aren’t a bad race, I respect them very much, I know many are bitter about the Mexican America war and would like their territory back.

What happened to the philosophy board? It appears there are some smart people on this forum...I'm suprised.

– as already mentioned (and I’ve mentioned it on here and the philosophy board when it used to be worth posting on) that genetics between your concept of “race” is far more different (i.e. A German has far more genetic difference than a Swede or a Finn than that of a white compared with a black)

L.L. Cavalli-Sforza doesn’t agree with you…he and two colleagues, P. Menozzi and A. Piazzia, in their work The History and Geography of Human Genes published in 1994 detailed 2.288 genetic point difference between whites and black Africans. The research found that the English differ from the Danes, Germans and French by 21-25 points of genetic distance, whereas they differ from North American Indians by 947 points, from black Africans by 2,288 points and from Mbuti Pygmies by 2,373 points.

And not only do I choose Judaism over Christianity (or should I rephrase, I choose modern Reform Judaism over the entirety of Christianity), I choose it based on how they deal with there religion: Orthopraxy vs. Orthodoxy. I know the role of the Kohan’im, and they play about an important part of the modern Levites do in traditional ceremony now (which is barely anything at all). If you are going to argue that Judaism is a race you are solely wrong. Judaism as it is foremost a culture and a religion; there are many other ways Judaism affects everyday life, but racially is not one of them. Although you are no doubt basing your argument in the “chosen people” passages, then you should also know that Jews willingly reflect on there biblical ancestry, and most Jews don’t accept any racial leanings (ahhh, the evolution of religion in society – something Christians caught onto very late in the game) – the entire point to Judaism is right action, you can even be an atheist and still be a Jew (NOT because of race, but because of culture, or even just by other Jews if you perform Torah, or anything beneficial). You should actually read some Midrash if you haven’t; I highly suggest it; the whole point of Judaism today is to question the authenticity of views instead of taking things as is. To go over the supposed words of God (which were admittingly not the words of God, more so they were produced by inspiration – of course this also depends on your faith and knowledge.

Judaism is a racial religion…the Jews are far more then just a religious community. Only a fool would deny that. Take a look at Israel for example, you have to prove you are a Jew biologically, not ‘culturally’. Why do you think Jewish groups are vehemently opposed to race mixing within the Jewish community? Because they know what will happen if it continues and they will do anything they can to stop it…that is why Jews are still here. That is the beauty of Zionism, that movement always understood the principles of race.

In fact, that is how Christianity came about, it’s origins are clearly Jewish. The Jews who formalized the Christian philosophy were against the chauvinism of the Jewish god so they established a god for all people…this very liberal idea offended the smart Jews and they tried their best to trash that thought process, it didn’t work obviously.

I will by the way take a look at the Midrash.

Jewish Genotype = bullshit by the way.

That isn't correct, the Jews are genetically different from others, which is all the more remarkable considering the fact they have shared a room with the ‘goyim’ for centuries.

Interestingly enough either this author is merely talking about religious text or he’s an orthodox idiot with a bible strapped to his head– either way my first paragraph on Judaism should be enough for that quote.

No way man…the priest class amongst the Jews are a lot more then priest, they are a race as well. They fall into haplography J.

 

[Tyra]

Are you kidding me? I made a factually incorrect statement? You are trying to tell me you couldn’t tell the difference between a Negros skull and a Orientals skull? If so that is very sad. When you talk about Indo-Europeans for example, they are a linguistic group, we don’t know their origins. But now that you mention it, the Tocharian’s, they spoke an Indo European language but we know they were a lot more then a linguistic group, they were European racially.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/chinamum/taklamakan.html

That goes for the Aryans of India, who came to the area, conquered it, and set up a class based on whiteness. The top classes are the lightest in coloring, whereas the darkest are the lowest. You have the priest class on top and the untouchables at the bottom.


As far as this business goes with the Neanderthals, they aren’t related to Europeans, genetics has proved that. But in any case skeletal remains do differ by race. Only a fool would deny something like that…even within the Europeans you have different skull shapes, some are ‘long’ (dolichocranial), and some are ‘round’.

In regards to the new issues that you bring up in this post, it was not the archaeologists or the anthropologists that said the Indo-Europeans were a race. We said they were just what you said, a linguistic group, but it was the racist movement that decided they were not, and that the Aryans were the pure race who brought that pure bloodline into Europe. That then somehow became "white caucasians", a k a Übermenschen. Technically speaking, jews are white caucasians, too. Their skulls are identical to a German skull. A hip bone from an Inuit woman is different from a caucasian woman, yes, but that assessment is not based on race, as I explained in my post. In the 1880's bones were assessed based on race, but since it was found that that method did not actually work, as you yourself pointed out by explaining that "even within the Europeans you have different skull shapes, some are ‘long’ (dolichocranial), and some are ‘round’" things have not been done that way since the nazis did it during the war.

As for Neanderthals, I never said they were related to anyone now living. I am not exactly sure how you were able to misconstrue my statement as saying so.

May I ask what university you got your masters degree from? My degrees are actual real ones from actual real accredited universities and colleges. There is nothing in your above statement that I have not covered in those studies, so I do not feel the need to have this discussion with you, because I have nothing to learn from you (you know how evolution is supposed to go forwards, not backwards, right? We covered that in university, too...), Anyhow, like I said, I do not feel the need to prove any point to you, I was just pointing out that you made a factual error. You did make a statement about how my chosen profession supposedly does bussiness, and I am telling you that we stopped doing it that way when Hitler died, not because it wasn't researched properly or because it was no longer PC or whatever, but because it was a scientific method that looked good on paper but that did not work in practise. That's all. I thought that I had outlined the reasons why in my original post. If you cannot fathom its content, I am not the one who is "a fool".

 

[Tyra]

Hey Patrick, you do realize that Cavalli-Sforza has apologized for making the statements regarding the haplotypes and how they spread and so on, because - I paraphrase - he made those statements when the DNA science was so young that all the kinks had not been worked out yet, and that they cannot be taken as facts considering what we know today, right?

 

[Belgar]

I think this thread has brought along forum trolls ... sort of funny to see them scramble for counter attacks when presented with hard facts.
The good thing about trolls, especially the racial oriented ones is that they will dissect your posts over and over, cut and paste your posts and add their educated comments. They will look for the argument and prove their point, on occasion like it is happening now, they will bring along their other troll friends.
They will also populate a music forum but yet have never posted any musically related posts ... but will have plenty of zionist this and that, israel so and so, .... keep on trolling in the free world ... while you still can.
Remember ... when the troll feels swarmed, he will change tactics and make personnal attacks. Eventually the thread will be closed or the troll will just create another allias or move to another forum.

 

[Tyra]

Exactly what I was just saying to my husband.

 

[Pessimism]

On a thread about race....and everyone is talking about race...how is that trolling?

and I didn't admit there were different races Patrick, I merely backed up my statement as before; for one there are a lot of reasons why some of the Ainu are more athletic, for one most may not live the typical industrial japanese environment, or maybe they don't even partake of the same diet. But just because I didn't give another option doesn't mean that it immediately considered a racial difference. I've been arguing that race is in fact a cultural term (as backed up serious scientific reconsiderations) - so in no way would I make some claim like that (unless of course it is true - which is exactly what were talking about )

The reason other apes (other, as in man is an ape too) is because the other apes lineages broke off at different times; this is why there is the distinction between old world and new world apes. There are sub-divisions; the reason there are no subdivisions within the realm of humans is because there honestly isn't that much difference - every human can interbreed with another human to make genetically viable offspring - if we couldn't with each other, then yes, there would be a subdivision and re-classification (and if that were the case, we would hve the same argument we are all having now - except we would have proof...which is currently what we do not have)
again, I never stated that hereditary confirms fears or anthing; I stated that there are bad sentiments - this isn't because of hereditary leanings, many people are just "racist", the continue to proginate this view that doesn't exist; then when you compare that to lifestyle between the two and other socio-economic factors, you can easily see why there would be a bit of hatred. It's the same thing in America, where many NBA players had no damn schooling and now make millions just because all they did was sports when they grew up; people are jealous, all they do is play a fucking game and earn millions while others work there asses off for less than minimum wage. Race doesn't matter in this aspect, it's just how good your abilities are, and how much people feel they need them (hence the shitload of cash - thanks america for your beautiful supply of mainstream pop culture money hungry bullshit).


And I'm not sure what history you have read about America, but european assimilation was not flawless or easy for most; the most obvious was the discrimination for the Irish - not only that but all the other peoples from itly, germany, the netherlands, france, etc all grouped into homogenous settlements (i.e. - italians with italians, irish wioth irish, etc).

but genetics has much more influence…take my example of the Middle East (who are mainly Muslims and are killing each other) to Japan where they aren’t killing each other, regardless of religion.

This statement completely contradicts itself - a muslim is not a race, it is a religious term. And they are indeed fighting because of religion; to compare a religous and political war with that of Japan which isn't going through any sort of comparable event doesn't make sense to me.
In regards to the israel...israel is corrupt as fuck - the change their military protocols every damned day to keep others off of their back; even if I agree with a religious homeland for Jews, I definately do NOT agree with Israel in its curent form (I actually have mixed feelings about a homeland anyway...still hate israel though).





I for the record however, am not egalitarian. I am also not politically correct; I do however believe knowledge should be shown in an unbiased light (but oh how damned hard that is!). This isn't Lamarckian evolution, it's just the effects of years of practice; I wouldn't make the claim that whites are naturally better at guitar - the same would be said about athletics. It's practice!







A Mighty Edit appears: Oh blah, whatever with trolling; if it's referred to me then I'll just stop here - no point in going on if the board wants it to end anyway.

 

[Jeremiah]

...I wouldn't make the claim that whites are naturally better at guitar ...

I think dark guys are better at drums

 

[Pessimism]

I wouldn't - the best drummer I know is mexican!

edit: light skinned mexican ooooooo

 

[Tyra]

The best drummer I know is Swedish, caucasian and named something like Fredrik Andersson. We could put Halloween make-up on him an pretend he's black, though, like they used to in the olden days...

 

[Trashhead]

[/shameless plug from Tyra]

 

[Thrymfal]

that guy just needs to get his money back for his biology books from "Dr." Pierce.

 

[Tyra]

[/shameless plug from Tyra]

 

[Patrick R.]

In regards to the new issues that you bring up in this post, it was not the archaeologists or the anthropologists that said the Indo-Europeans were a race. We said they were just what you said, a linguistic group, but it was the racist movement that decided they were not, and that the Aryans were the pure race who brought that pure bloodline into Europe.

Yes you are spot on…100%. That almost the entire reason why race is so looked down upon today. But the Aryans themselves did go to India and set up a caste system…they were European racially, but, the Indo Europeans at one point were thought to be nearly all Nordic, but that no longer stands, all we know is that some groups that spoke that language were European racially.

That then somehow became "white caucasians", a k a Übermenschen. Technically speaking, jews are white caucasians, too. Their skulls are identical to a German skull. A hip bone from an Inuit woman is different from a caucasian woman, yes, but that assessment is not based on race, as I explained in my post. In the 1880's bones were assessed based on race, but since it was found that that method did not actually work, as you yourself pointed out by explaining that "even within the Europeans you have different skull shapes, some are ‘long’ (dolichocranial), and some are ‘round’" things have not been done that way since the nazis did it during the war.

That all depends on what Jews we are talking about here…some could be passed of as European, but that isn’t the case with the priest class amongst the Jews. They never assimilated, the Jews as a race have kept their identity.

You are correct, anthropology is different today then during the 1800’s to the 1900’s…after the second world war, race was suppressed just because the ‘Nazis’ believed in it. Well guess what? The Nazis believed in rocket science and ex Nazi rocket scientist developed NASA…so should we throw that away? By the left wing logic, the Nazis believed in race so we should not even look at it, so I guess if we use there logic we should turn a blind eye to space exploration.

As for Neanderthals, I never said they were related to anyone now living. I am not exactly sure how you were able to misconstrue my statement as saying so.

I know…I was just clarifying that.

May I ask what university you got your masters degree from? My degrees are actual real ones from actual real accredited universities and colleges. There is nothing in your above statement that I have not covered in those studies, so I do not feel the need to have this discussion with you, because I have nothing to learn from you (you know how evolution is supposed to go forwards, not backwards, right? We covered that in university, too...), Anyhow, like I said, I do not feel the need to prove any point to you, I was just pointing out that you made a factual error. You did make a statement about how my chosen profession supposedly does bussiness, and I am telling you that we stopped doing it that way when Hitler died, not because it wasn't researched properly or because it was no longer PC or whatever, but because it was a scientific method that looked good on paper but that did not work in practise. That's all. I thought that I had outlined the reasons why in my original post. If you cannot fathom its content, I am not the one who is "a fool".

This is 90% of the problem, free thought is attacked as well, if you didn’t learn it from a university then it can’t be correct! I’m not saying that is by your logic, I’m talking about just how many people think. May I suggest you do your own research? You area already have the credentials so forget the universities and do your own research and back your statements up with hard facts. You are correct evolution is supposed to go forward, it is shame that it isn’t doing that because certain discoveries are suppressed because they reinforce traditional notions of race.

The reason why anthropology differs today is because Franz Boaz and his allies introduced cultural anthropology, the name speaks for itself, cultural anthropologist study the cultures of humanity, in marked contrast to physical anthropologist who study the races of humanity.

May I suggest you read a book by John R Baker? The title of the book is simple…‘Race’. The man is dead now, but he was physical anthropologist and biologist who went against the Boaz doctrine. Read it and tell me what you think.

 

[Patrick R.]

Hey Patrick, you do realize that Cavalli-Sforza has apologized for making the statements regarding the haplotypes and how they spread and so on, because - I paraphrase - he made those statements when the DNA science was so young that all the kinks had not been worked out yet, and that they cannot be taken as facts considering what we know today, right?

Well, genetic evidence reinforces traditional notions of race even more, despite scientist under political pressure to try and stop that fact. Take my example with sickle cell anemia only effecting black Africans are those with African ancestry. Also, take my example with Hereditary Hemochromatosis with Europeans…when a European male and female both have a defective copy of that gene and they have sex and their egg and sperm cells meet up and fertilization occurs, then their offspring will have HHC.

Another thing about genetics is that there is solution to hereditary diseases other then eugenics! There isn’t much of a need for sterilization to prevent defective offspring, at one period hereditary diseases were horrible because not to much could be done, in marked contrast to the present day where lots can be done, such as genetic therapy.

 

[Patrick R.]

On a thread about race....and everyone is talking about race...how is that trolling?

That is true.

and I didn't admit there were different races Patrick, I merely backed up my statement as before; for one there are a lot of reasons why some of the Ainu are more athletic, for one most may not live the typical industrial japanese environment, or maybe they don't even partake of the same diet. But just because I didn't give another option doesn't mean that it immediately considered a racial difference. I've been arguing that race is in fact a cultural term (as backed up serious scientific reconsiderations) - so in no way would I make some claim like that (unless of course it is true - which is exactly what were talking about )

Environmental theories can’t explain those differences…proof in the pudding comes with the fact that they share the same environment. Race is far more then a cultural term, Asian Americans are a shinning example of that. They can come to the United States and become more successful then white Americans, despite the fact we share the same exact environment! That trashes the environmental theory of development, that theory still stands only because it makes a good anti white guilt trip, something the Asians don’t need to get ahead in life.

Take for example Jews, the average IQ for Jews living outside of Israel is 108 to 115! That is why they are successful, not the environment.

The reason other apes (other, as in man is an ape too) is because the other apes lineages broke off at different times; this is why there is the distinction between old world and new world apes. There are sub-divisions; the reason there are no subdivisions within the realm of humans is because there honestly isn't that much difference - every human can interbreed with another human to make genetically viable offspring - if we couldn't with each other, then yes, there would be a subdivision and re-classification (and if that were the case, we would hve the same argument we are all having now - except we would have proof...which is currently what we do not have)

Human lineages broke off as well, even if we go by the African Adam theory which isn’t proven by it the genetic theory, that all humans descend from a male who lived in Africa, other males had offspring, but only African Adams descendants live today. Our most common female ancestor lived long before our first male one. But the point is that humans changed and evolved into different peoples, we aren’t all the same, the evidence is overwhelming but yet the establishment has not interest in it at all.

Yes humans can interbreed with one another, domesticated dogs breed indiscriminately with widely different types but wild dogs like foxes, wolves, and coyotes breed only with their own kind. The thing is, as I have detailed, humans differ greatly physically but we still interbreed with one another in marked contrast to the seven kinds of European mosquito who experts can’t tell apart even under a microscope! Despite this fact, they don’t interbreed! Humans can’t see the difference between them, but the mosquito sure as hell can.

again, I never stated that hereditary confirms fears or anthing; I stated that there are bad sentiments - this isn't because of hereditary leanings, many people are just "racist", the continue to proginate this view that doesn't exist; then when you compare that to lifestyle between the two and other socio-economic factors, you can easily see why there would be a bit of hatred. It's the same thing in America, where many NBA players had no damn schooling and now make millions just because all they did was sports when they grew up; people are jealous, all they do is play a fucking game and earn millions while others work there asses off for less than minimum wage. Race doesn't matter in this aspect, it's just how good your abilities are, and how much people feel they need them (hence the shitload of cash - thanks america for your beautiful supply of mainstream pop culture money hungry bullshit).

I hate to disagree with you I have believed in race my entire life and I have never had amnesty against NBA players. Just because you can tell the difference between humans, doesn’t mean you have to be a moron and dislike it. I have become even more tolerant of other races the more I learn about them.

And I'm not sure what history you have read about America, but european assimilation was not flawless or easy for most; the most obvious was the discrimination for the Irish - not only that but all the other peoples from itly, germany, the netherlands, france, etc all grouped into homogenous settlements (i.e. - italians with italians, irish wioth irish, etc).

With some perhaps, but for the most part it was a breeze. The thing with the Irish was the fact they weren’t considered white by morons of course, but they assimilated despite agitation of their ethnic background.

This statement completely contradicts itself - a muslim is not a race, it is a religious term. And they are indeed fighting because of religion; to compare a religous and political war with that of Japan which isn't going through any sort of comparable event doesn't make sense to me.

I know Muslims aren’t a race, I’m talking about the massive diversity of in the Middle East but yet they are still killing each other despite the fact they are all Muslim, whereas the Japanese aren’t killing each other regardless of religion.

In regards to the israel...israel is corrupt as fuck - the change their military protocols every damned day to keep others off of their back; even if I agree with a religious homeland for Jews, I definately do NOT agree with Israel in its curent form (I actually have mixed feelings about a homeland anyway...still hate israel though).

You are correct, the Israeli government (along with the Federal government of the Untied States) is corrupt. It is time for a peaceful transfer of power to stop the madness.

A Mighty Edit appears: Oh blah, whatever with trolling; if it's referred to me then I'll just stop here - no point in going on if the board wants it to end anyway.

Oh, I think the ‘Belgian redneck’ was referring to me. He went back to his room to watch the nutty professor.