RC March Madness - The Elite 8 (votes needed):

JayKeeley said:
Yeah, but let's not go to extremes here. The point I'm making is that if the lyrics, artwork, or anything else outside of the music is worthy of mentioning, then mention/discuss it. [Seems lilke you agree with this].

That is indeed exactly the point I've been trying to make :D Agree with the rest of what you as well, apart from:

JayKeeley said:
However, what some people here are saying is that THEY WILL GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO DIMISS LYRICS ON PRINCIPLE. Meaning, lyrics are not a component of the big picture and that they make no difference whatsoever.

I didn't get that impression, but there's no way I'm going to read over this entire thread to check :loco:

BOOBIES!!
 
JayKeeley said:
Better lyrics bring out a better vocal performance too. The singer should believe in what he/she is singing about. You're going to get much more emotion about Christians savaging the lands of the Pagans, say, than you are about how long it takes for your fucking grass to grow.
Well I had a longwinded post until UM FUCKING KILLED IT. Cliff notes version:

You never listened to Kyuss, those vocals have so much energy and love and emotion and all that fun stuff, and lyrics are TERRIBLE. I do see your point though, and it usually seems funny when some dude writes the lyrics but some other dude sings them. But then again, maybe they have the mentality of actors, I dunno. I don't sing! :D
 
One Inch Man said:
...no matter how much you prattle on about a certain album and all the nuances and lyrics and art and themes and mother's maiden names, shit doesn't mean squat until the person hears the actual MUSIC.

Then why write a review in the first place? Why not just provide a hyperlink to a sample and let the listener decide on his/her own terms? :tickled: I mean, that's the difference between a forum recommendation and a written review, no?

1 - If the reader is interested enough to LISTEN to the album after reading your review, then you've done a good job. :)

2 - If the reader is interested enough to BUY THE ALBUM BLIND after reading your review, then you've done a fucking excellent job. :kickass:

Of course, this is all dependent on how much you yourself love the album that you're discussing, together with the reader's tastes....

....with that said, I've read some reviews of albums that aren't typically the sort of things I'd go for, but the review is just so damn good it makes me want to go check it out.
 
What I now find most interesting about this discussion is how it turned into a debate on reviewing. Had I not been a reviewer making comments about the (lack of) importance or emphasis I put on lyrics, it would not have (d)evolved to this point.

Regardless of my opinion on lyrics, I DO mention them in reviews where lyrics are received or in which they play a prominent factor. I was severely disappointed that the lyrics were not provided for the last Requiem Aeternam album, because their concept was something worth mentioning in the review and I made note of this so that all readers could take note of it as well. I will be reviewing the new Six Feet Under which also has a lyrical concept and yes I will discuss it in the review as I have done with numerous albums in the past.

When I write a review, it obviously has my personal opinion tied into various things that I say, but at the same time, I try to be as objective as possible in the sense that I try to describe what is going on musically (is the drummer spectacular or run of the mill, does the bassist do anything extraordinary or just mimic the rhythm guitar, what's the quality of the leads and riffs, is this song brutal, groovy, melodic and on and on) and I do this in an effort to portray this album in such a way that, regardless of whether I enjoyed it or not, the reader knows whether THEY would.

My opinion on lyrics stems from what I do on my own personal time, and yes, I rarely read lyrics when I buy an album for a number of reasons. As I've stated, I think lyrics can be a great complement and shouldn't be done away with all-together, but I personally believe that they mean little to the musical experience, which to me is the music itself. I don't have as much of a vendetta against lyrics as it appears I do, but they simply don't mean a whole heck of a lot to me as a PERSONAL music listener. When possible, I do address all of the prominent and important aspects of an album as a reviewer, and if this means the lyrics as well, they will be discussed, though they are more often than not, never included with the promo. I think people here are confusing my personal idiosyncrasies with what I do as a critic and that line needs to be drawn. Everything will be taken into consideration when I set out to describe an album to people, whether it has any personal meaning to me or not, in an effort to let people know EXACTLY what they're getting and whether or not it would appeal to them.
 
JayKeeley said:
Then why write a review in the first place? Why not just provide a hyperlink to a sample and let the listener decide on his/her own terms? :tickled: I mean, that's the difference between a forum recommendation and a written review, no?
My point was you don't always have to write a 4,000 word dissertation on something like say, that Gruntsplatter review I did. Extreme example yes, but that's just my way.

Oh and back to the lyrics thing bringing a better performance, my two favorite death vocalists are Mikael from Opeth and Peter from Hypocrisy. Both deliver some serious soul, warmth, and all kinds of gooey ear candy from their marvelous pipes. One has incredible lyrics, the other has some of the worst lyrics I've ever heard.

Erik said:
Yeah but dude...

People of Asa Land... It's only... just...

begun
:kickass:
 
OK it's all subjective but here's a recent example: Imagine Primordial's "Coffin Ships"...and now replace those lyrics about feeding the cat.

Lyrics and themes are so important to me when it comes to emotional music. Hypocrisy sing about aliens. :loco:
 
JayKeeley said:
Lyrics and themes are so important to me when it comes to emotional music. Hypocrisy sing about aliens. :loco:
It's all about personal choice my friend. :kickass:

I've been an X-files dork since long before the X-files existed, so there's my immediate love for Hypocrisy. :loco:
 
Opeth17 said:
What I now find most interesting about this discussion is how it turned into a debate on reviewing. Had I not been a reviewer making comments about the (lack of) importance or emphasis I put on lyrics, it would not have (d)evolved to this point.

Regardless of my opinion on lyrics, I DO mention them in reviews where lyrics are received or in which they play a prominent factor. I was severely disappointed that the lyrics were not provided for the last Requiem Aeternam album, because their concept was something worth mentioning in the review and I made note of this so that all readers could take note of it as well. I will be reviewing the new Six Feet Under which also has a lyrical concept and yes I will discuss it in the review as I have done with numerous albums in the past.

When I write a review, it obviously has my personal opinion tied into various things that I say, but at the same time, I try to be as objective as possible in the sense that I try to describe what is going on musically (is the drummer spectacular or run of the mill, does the bassist do anything extraordinary or just mimic the rhythm guitar, what's the quality of the leads and riffs, is this song brutal, groovy, melodic and on and on) and I do this in an effort to portray this album in such a way that, regardless of whether I enjoyed it or not, the reader knows whether THEY would.

My opinion on lyrics stems from what I do on my own personal time, and yes, I rarely read lyrics when I buy an album for a number of reasons. As I've stated, I think lyrics can be a great complement and shouldn't be done away with all-together, but I personally believe that they mean little to the musical experience, which to me is the music itself. I don't have as much of a vendetta against lyrics as it appears I do, but they simply don't mean a whole heck of a lot to me as a PERSONAL music listener. When possible, I do address all of the prominent and important aspects of an album as a reviewer, and if this means the lyrics as well, they will be discussed, though they are more often than not, never included with the promo. I think people here are confusing my personal idiosyncrasies with what I do as a critic and that line needs to be drawn. Everything will be taken into consideration when I set out to describe an album to people, whether it has any personal meaning to me or not, in an effort to let people know EXACTLY what they're getting and whether or not it would appeal to them.

Here's my post from the last page that NAD so blatantly wiped out with his synchronized posting. :D Hopefully that clears up some things.
 
Dude it's still there, it's just on page 5!

Random thoughts:

-King Crimson has a song called Cat Food, and it's about Cat Food.

-One of my favorite King Crimson albums is a 4-CD set with no vocals (apart from about 6 words in a few samples). I guess that would bother some of you, but honestly if I were to write a review on it, odds are I wouldn't even bother saying "oh yeah this is all instrumental" because it doesn't matter to me.

-I think I realize why some bands label their instrumentals as such in the song title, for around 15 years now since I first saw that I wondered what the fuck the point was. I guess it's for people like some of joos. :loco:

-I bought the first Nile album some years back when I found out they were Egyptian Death Metal. Thought that was a cool theme, and it had nothing to do with the lyrics. The reason I like them has absolutely zero to do with the lyrics. Note: their lyrics are very good, but I have more fun reading the extensive liner notes than lyrics.

-At the Gates have wonderful lyrics. Didn't know that until I read Erik's review of Red in the Sky, I had listened to them for about 6 years without ever reading any.

-I'm not gay, I just play the part on TV.
 
One Inch Man said:
-At the Gates have wonderful lyrics. Didn't know that until I read Erik's review of Red in the Sky, I had listened to them for about 6 years without ever reading any.

That means Erik wrote a good review, and it was in depth enough for you to go see what you had been missing.

You know, it's funny - our lifestyles today mean that we're all on the go. We listen to music in the car, in the shower, etc. It's not often that I sit down with headphones and read along with the lyrics - however, when I do, I truly enjoy the listening experience. I used to do this as a kid, listening to my dad's LPs, and reading the lyrics on the sleeves.

The one thing I'm going to miss when not taking my CDs with me on future travels (but just the cheapened MP3s instead) are the CD inlays. I would have typically read the lyrics sitting on plane or in the hotel room while listening to the CD. It also helps me focus on the music.

-I'm not gay...

...it's just the way I walk. :tickled:
 
My daily listening materials are all in CD wallets w/o liner notes. I don't even know song titles 96.41987% of the time anymore.

Reason #1 why I don't buy many CDs anymore is because I don't give them enough focus. Reason #2 is that I'm going to be broke as fuck for the next 8 months. :ill:
 
i like that this debate is still raging on ... :D
then there are records like Satriani's Surfing with the Alien ... which are instrumental and so beautifully done that just by him giving you song titles you can put your own lyrics to it ... THIS IS DONE AS THE SONG IS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION (also Satch is a terrible lyric writer as proven on subsequent releases)

But really to fully "grasp" a band ... I don't think personally it is fair ... especially if you are reviewing a record ... to dismiss the lyrics ... OR ... even worse write about your own interpretation of what you "think" it says.
 
whipping the my pals slaves is what they are saying. although I guess flogging the cargo is a more PC way to put it.