this is what I think is fundementally wrong with a lot of reviews ... that the reviewer has some very "personal" way of looking at a release ... and when you do not consider the whole picture ... it can be misleading to the reader. ... unless of course you mention the things you are overlooking.
RC March Madness - The Elite 8 (votes needed):
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this is what I think is fundementally wrong with a lot of reviews ... that the reviewer has some very "personal" way of looking at a release ... and when you do not consider the whole picture ... it can be misleading to the reader. ... unless of course you mention the things you are overlooking.
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
Yeah but by nature, all reviews are personal. Music, art, and literature aren't exactly objective forms. If they were it'd be boring and clinical like calculus (note: I enjoy calculus, but it sure as hell isn't on some spiritual and ethereal level).
I do try to be objective when it comes to music I dislike though, I try to take a step back and enjoy it for what it is. Like I dislike a lot of back-to-basics black metal, but I'm not going to give Transylvanian Hunger a 2/10 score just because I don't like it. I don't know if I'm making sense right now, but who cares? :Spin:
I do try to be objective when it comes to music I dislike though, I try to take a step back and enjoy it for what it is. Like I dislike a lot of back-to-basics black metal, but I'm not going to give Transylvanian Hunger a 2/10 score just because I don't like it. I don't know if I'm making sense right now, but who cares? :Spin:
Russell
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I must say I find the discussion about the importance of lyrics in a form of music where they are barely decipherable quite entertaining. 
I appreciate good lyrics, but hardly consider them a major concern. To me music usually says infinitely more than lyrics ever could. If it doesn't, then usually it's not my kind of music....
I consider lyrics in a reviewing sense secondary. Occasionally they are of note, but for the majority of promos there are no lyrics included, they are not decipherable, and unless you leave off reviewing it for a couple of months they are not posted on the internet yet. That doesn't leave many options, and anyone that says they consider the lyrics in every review they write is either lying, or really slow when it comes to reviewing promos. To say that someone is not a good reviewer just because you disagree on the importance of lyrics seems petty, as long as reviewers listen to the music, give an honest and an objective (as possible) opinion, I'm more than happy if they haven't been able to get hold of the lyrics. That is of course, my opinion, and if you actually feel like sombody's reviews don't hold as much weight because they haven't considered the lyrics, then fair enough
What this thread highlights is the differing importance of lyrics to people, which is perfectly valid in all cases. I know people who listen to music they consider mediocre because it has great lyrics. I won't listen to the worst music even if it has the best lyrics I've ever heard - I'll just read the lyrics Interesting stuff
I appreciate good lyrics, but hardly consider them a major concern. To me music usually says infinitely more than lyrics ever could. If it doesn't, then usually it's not my kind of music....I consider lyrics in a reviewing sense secondary. Occasionally they are of note, but for the majority of promos there are no lyrics included, they are not decipherable, and unless you leave off reviewing it for a couple of months they are not posted on the internet yet. That doesn't leave many options, and anyone that says they consider the lyrics in every review they write is either lying, or really slow when it comes to reviewing promos. To say that someone is not a good reviewer just because you disagree on the importance of lyrics seems petty, as long as reviewers listen to the music, give an honest and an objective (as possible) opinion, I'm more than happy if they haven't been able to get hold of the lyrics. That is of course, my opinion, and if you actually feel like sombody's reviews don't hold as much weight because they haven't considered the lyrics, then fair enough
What this thread highlights is the differing importance of lyrics to people, which is perfectly valid in all cases. I know people who listen to music they consider mediocre because it has great lyrics. I won't listen to the worst music even if it has the best lyrics I've ever heard - I'll just read the lyrics
Interesting stuff 
I don't believe the context of the discussion is limited to vocalists who use harsh vocals.Russell said:I must say I find the discussion about the importance of lyrics in a form of music where they are barely decipherable quite entertaining.
Zod
The title track to "To Hell with the Devil" is awesome. I love that glass breaking shreik towards te end of the first verse.One Inch Man said:Why in holy fuck would I be listening to Stryper in the first place?
Zod
Russell
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General Zod said:
Point taken. It was just using Nile as an example that amused me.
EDIT: And just to clarify, if lyrics are decipherable I still wouldn't consider mentioning them in a review compulsory, or even necessary. They can help solidify the over all "feel" of an album, but I still believe the majority of a review should be based on the music and music alone.
Demilich
Remember
It's the fact that you guys don't consider the lyrics PART of the music that makes me wanna smack my fucking head against a desk! What are lyrics then? Are they as peripheral to music as the cover art of the plastic of the CD itself?
Fair enough.Russell said:Point taken. It was just using Nile as an example that amused me.
To an extant, I agree with what you're saying. If the music, melody and singer all suck, lyrics, no matter how amazing, can't save the CD. However, to write a complete review of a CD, and never mention the quality of the lyrics or the themes within, strikes me as a failure on the part of the reviewer.Russell said:
Zod
Russell
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Demilich said:
This is a very interesting question, one I've never really thought over before. In my opinion lyrics are just a means for the vocal melody/lack of to come through. The only impact they have on the music is the rhythm they impart IMO. You can have vocals without lyrics. Much like a guitar tone - if a guitar tone is unusual, I like/dislike it or whatever, I will mention that in a review. If the drums sound shite I will mention that. If there is something notable about the lyrics, I will mention that. But I won't mention all of these things in every review I do.
Lyrics aren't as peripheral as, say, the cover art, but they are not central (to me) to the emotion created by the music and hence its impact on me - the very reason I listen to music. They are also more peripheral than my above analogy of guitar tone; I listen to music if I like the music, irrespective of whether I like the lyrics, whereas if the guitar tone is shite, it will really fuck me off. So no, not that peripheral, but are by no means central to the music.
As with everything in life, the importance of lyrics falls into a grey area. To some they are more important, to some they are less, but I would imagine there are relatively few people here that will claim lyrics are just as important as the melody/tunes that actually create the music (feel free to prove me wrong). What I'm trying to say here is that whether they are part of the "music" in someone's opinion is pretty arbitrary, relying - as it does - on their definition of music. All we're seeing here is a difference in interpretation resulting from the differing importance to us of lyrics.
Wow, that was singularly poorly explained, and now I look like a verbose wanker
I hope you get what I'm trying to say
Russell
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General Zod said:
The above post hopefully explains my outlook on this, but I guess this is where it all comes down to personal taste. Some people consider the lyrics an integral part of the music, and hence would like to see it mentioned in every review, and some people see it as less vital. As such, I would not consider neglecting to mention the lyrics a failure on the part of a reviewer, it's just a consequence of differing tastes and differing personalities. As all reviews (and the importance of different elements to the reviewer) are subjective, that's something we're all just going to have to live with.
JayKeeley
Be still, O wand'rer!
General Zod said:
Right, that's what I was saying, especially when there's a prominent theme. As a reader, I want to know all the details, and I want some accuracy too to help me decide whether to buy or not*. Give me everything I need to know, and I'LL decide what's important and what's not. It's my money at the end of the day.
Expansive reviews are better than vague reviews for that reason IMO. It's better to have the info and not need it than to need the info and not have it.
And it works both ways by the way -- what if an album has EXCEPTIONAL lyrics (either the vocals are clear or the lyrics are printed) and they don't get mentioned in the review? If I'm buying* an album, it would be nice to know that I'm getting good lyrics as a bonus to the great music. At minimum, it would certainly entice me further into buying* it.
*And herein lies the problem: people don't buy anymore. 90% of reviews just let people decide whether to download or not. Short attention spans now imply everything pivots on the music only, and to a degree, I can't argue with that being the most important attribute. But as much as a reviewer should make the effort to assess the release in detail, the artist should likewise not release anything until the lyrics, packaging, and artwork are the best they can be. That 'cycle' makes for a better music world for everyone. The artists and journalists should be symbiotic to a degree, both making the effort.
Russell
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JayKeeley said:
As I said, if there is something notable about the lyrics, it should be mentioned, just with like so many other factors. But mentioning everything, in every review? Even if it is just to say "This is ok. This is ok. That bit is medioccre. Nothing to say about this"? You'll lose the majority of the readers within a paragaph, as many people reading reviews want them to be concise - not mentioning everything doesn't make a review vague!
But it really depends on what readership you are catering for, it's just a difference in reviewing style. I maintain there is no right or wrong here; it's all down to taste.
Back to work now
Black Winter Day
Member
NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
I disagree, I prefer brevity. Reason being is because no matter how much you prattle on about a certain album and all the nuances and lyrics and art and themes and mother's maiden names, shit doesn't mean squat until the person hears the actual MUSIC. Now granted, some reviews do indeed need to be long and work quite well that way, but not all. Just like some need to be short and work quite well that way, but not all. Just like some need to be... oh wait, I'm done.JayKeeley said:
BWD, of course this is a nerdy discussion, just like 95% of the other shit we babble on about here. Shit even the boobies threads get pretty dorky at times. I love it.
Russell
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NAD
What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse
hahahahah Google image search for "dork boobies" (no quotes) brings up Tubgirl. Hahahaha and I just finished drinking some orange juice YES!!! 
:hotjump: :squish:
:hotjump: :squish:
Henrik Main
Hello
Russell
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JayKeeley
Be still, O wand'rer!
Russell said:
Yeah, but let's not go to extremes here. The point I'm making is that if the lyrics, artwork, or anything else outside of the music is worthy of mentioning, then mention/discuss it. [Seems lilke you agree with this].
However, what some people here are saying is that THEY WILL GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO DIMISS LYRICS ON PRINCIPLE. Meaning, lyrics are not a component of the big picture and that they make no difference whatsoever.
Shit lyrics + Good music = Acceptable
Good lyrics + Good music = Perfect
Therefore, good lyrics improve the overall listening experience.
AND HERE'S THE DEAL CLENCHER:
Better lyrics bring out a better vocal performance too. The singer should believe in what he/she is singing about. You're going to get much more emotion about Christians savaging the lands of the Pagans, say, than you are about how long it takes for your fucking grass to grow.
