Respect for the olden-tymes

[Cythraul]

So I've been listening to a lot of Falkenbach and Windir lately (many of you are probably familiar) and I got to thinking about something. A lot of metal has a kind of atavistic feel for me (atavistic: reversion to a primitive type) in that there seems to be a whole lot of old-timey influences in metal, particularly of the European variety. For instance, the works of bands like Falkenbach, Windir, Enslaved, (early) Ulver, and Amorphis are all rife with mythology, folklore etc. Amorphis' Tales From the Thousand Lakes and Elegy are directly based on the Finnish folklore texts Kalevala and Kanteletar respectively. Even most metal bands that aren't steeped in mythology and folklore adhere, in large part, to traditional tonality originating in the European classical tradition. Take a look at one of your cd's. Notice the band logo? Chances are it doesn't look like some bland modern crap. No, it looks like some elaborate kind of writing from times past. For those of you who have read the book Lords of Chaos, you're probably familiar with the concept of metal (particularly black metal) as a form of resurgent atavism. Are there any other bands that you guys think give off the atavistic vibe? Do you agree that metal is atavistic? What about bands that focus on other old-timey cultures other than the Scandinavian bunch? Discuss.

 

[Morbid_Corpse]

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[Thraxz]

I think its purely a yearning for simpler times. I mean, how often do you find yourself thinking, "Damn, I wish I could go back in time to the 5th century, live on a farm, work my ass off all summer, do nothing but sit inside and drink all winter and get pissed every 20 years and go fuck up my neighbor." I know I do.

I have seen quite a bit in the power metal scene that's becoming a throw back to times like the Greek Empires (odyssey) and the Roman era (Virgin Steel).

 

[Blodsmert]

That feeling, the urge, even hunger, to return to a more base existence, free from the distractions of modern life is a common theme of many bands. I think the view is rose-tinted however. Everything we do, if not an extension of our basic need to eat, fuck and have shelter/be safe, is merely a displacement activity to stop us from being bored. I suppose art with a primal leaning can bring out those savage feelings within us, it certainly does for me. When your main concerns in life are gathering food, killing your enemies and making sure you father some mini-warriors, your existence is probably short but very meaningful in the scheme of things.

To probably misquote a post I read a while ago, 'I love music that makes me want to run down the street and punch someone in the face'.

For me, I love the sound of deep gruff singing, with unintelligible roars and appropriate lyrics. The Amund and Kettil songs of Finntroll are an excellent example of primeval man, represented by trolls, laying waste to the Christian educators bringing unwanted civilisation.

To cut myself short, more bands I would note with this sort of vibe in one way or another are, Moonsorrow, Arckanum, outfits like Elvenking are probably also fitting, if in a more twee manner.

 

[no country for old wainds]

A lot of metal, black in particular, is in favour of the values of a few thousand years ago over the Christian values of today, thus it attempts to invoke the spirit of those times. Indeed, most of the bands I listen to do just that, and I'll list some later. It's nothing to do with being 'simple' and escaping from trivial personal worries, I assure you.

 

[Slayed Necros]

Definitely Moonblood's Blut Und Krieg and Graveland's Thousand Swords(not to mention most material released afterwards). Both albums, for me, conjure up powerful, and the most vivid images of medieval wars and vast, uncivilized or uninhabitated landscapes.

 

[Erik]

Good thread. Guardian of Darkness is exactly right: when making music with pagan/pre-Christian ideology, it is natural for it to take on a pre-Christian type atmosphere. (How music manages to do that is still rather a mystery to me, although lyrics and imagery certainly helps aside from the purely musical aspects, which I think noone is really quite certain how they work to create different feelings in the human brain)

Though GoD is right that "It's nothing to do with being 'simple' and escaping from trivial personal worries, I assure you," the point of wanting to go back to simpler times has validity: pre-Christian times surely were "simpler" in terms of lifestyle, and also, for someone with a heathen heart, is it not obvious that the forced existence in a society based on Judeo-Christian values & morality in itself creates "personal problems" from which appropriate music can help one escape?

As for bands doing this, pretty much any successful Heathen-minded band will evoke ancient atmospheres. Summoning comes to mind as music based solely on the strength of the primæval, epic atmosphere it creates.

 

[Henrik Main]

Are there any other bands that you guys think give off the atavistic vibe?

Abigor's "Nachthymnen" and "Orkblut" have a medieval mid-European feel to it, I think. Some of Aeternus' earlier stuff also give me an "ancient" feeling, same goes for Borknagar's first three albums. You might also check out Ásmegin, they mix Norwegian folk music with extreme metal. Oh, and DEFINITELY Drudkh's "Autumn Aurora", Enslaved's "Vikingligr Veldi", "Hordanes Land", "Frost" and "Eld". Perhaps even Negura Bunget, Nokturnal Mortum and Taake. If you're a fan of folk/medieval music, you might also want to check out Wolgemut, who's a pure medieval/folk band.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Agreed entirely with Erik. I would've touched more on that but I was at school with my teacher looking over my shoulder, heh. I was more replying to Thraxz's post which seemed to be suggesting that black metal is about being a redneck.

The bottom line is: Metal generally presents a journey into something that the artist finds beautiful and is passionate about. Seeing as BM directly opposes Christianity's values, and those values generally conflict with values of old, it's obvious why the two have such a strong link. All BM is to some extent 'ancient'.

"Thousand Swords" would definitely be my pick for representing this. I know a lot of you think it's overrated, I really recommend giving it more listens if this applies to you, it really is a sweeping masterpiece.

 

[Cythraul]

Wow, excellent responses. What do you guys think of a band like Absu, whose Tara album has some extremely killer lyrics concerning Celtic magick and mythology? Or how about Melechesh? They explore topics about their own middle-eastern mythology (I know it's probably hard for us whities to relate to that in the same way we relate to Norse bands). Personally, I'm waiting for some strange individuals to start writing about my own ancestors, the ancient Greeks. Screw Odinism, I want some fucking Zeus Metal.

 

[polarity]

(I know it's probably hard for us whities to relate to that in the same way we relate to Norse bands).

I don't think so. Modern western culture is pretty much equally unrelated to both mythologies. I don't buy into racial determinism, so I'm not of the opinion, unlike some here probably are, that one's interest in mythology should be dictated by race.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Good thread. Guardian of Darkness is exactly right: when making music with pagan/pre-Christian ideology, it is natural for it to take on a pre-Christian type atmosphere. (How music manages to do that is still rather a mystery to me[)]

The use of instruments available in that time period helps, as well as the generally gloomy feel (conveying a Dark Age in music form, perhaps) with dirgy/dungeonlike atmosphere that a lot of ld-school BM and some new school BM has.

 

[Slayed Necros]

What do you guys think of a band like Absu, whose Tara album has some extremely killer lyrics concerning Celtic magick and mythology?

Tara does indeed have well written, mythological lyrics. But it lacks subjective imagery through the music. The Sun of Tiphareth, on the other hand evokes wonderous ancient atmospheres. From epic journeys to distant lands, to raging, furious battles.

 

[Cythraul]

I don't think so. Modern western culture is pretty much equally unrelated to both mythologies. I don't buy into racial determinism, so I'm not of the opinion, unlike some here probably are, that one's interest in mythology should be dictated by race.

Sure, of course modern western culture is completely divorced from the ancient ways but don't you think that if you're white you have a higher chance of appreciating Norse influenced music and identifying with it? Part of the appreciation might come from a sense of kinship with one's ancestors. Therefore, wouldn't it be a little harder for a white person to identify with Melechesh lyrics for example. And answer me this, how many non-white people do you think listen to the kind of music that we're discussing in this thread?

 

[Cythraul]

Tara does indeed have well written, mythological lyrics. But it lacks subjective imagery through the music. The Sun of Tiphareth, on the other hand evokes wonderous ancient atmospheres. From epic journeys to distant lands, to raging, furious battles.

You're absolutely right. Actually, I think I'm gonna throw The Sun of Tipareth on right now.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Actually I'm highly interested in some non-Nordic bands focusing on their native culture lyrically and folk music musically, such as Negurã Bunget (Romania) and all the Ukrainan bands like Nokturnal Mortum, Hate Forest, Astrofaes and Drudkh, so while I feel most connected to my Nordic heritage, culture and traditional music, that does not mean I can have extensive interest in and appreciation for others.

Indeed.

 

[polarity]

Sure, of course modern western culture is completely divorced from the ancient ways but don't you think that if you're white you have a higher chance of appreciating Norse influenced music and identifying with it? Part of the appreciation might come from a sense of kinship with one's ancestors. Therefore, wouldn't it be a little harder for a white person to identify with Melechesh lyrics for example. And answer me this, how many non-white people do you think listen to the kind of music that we're discussing in this thread?

I think it's more likely that a person of a particular race will come to identify with music associated with their own race than that of other races, but not for the reason you cite. Rather, I'd say it's a matter of cultural factors which correlate with - but are not directly related to - race.

 

[MasterOLightning]

I'm white and of German descent, but as a fully assimilated American, I could just as easily connect with Nile's Egyptian mythology as Nordic mythology. One's ethnicity would matter if there were strong ethnic ties, but I'm really far removed from my German ancestors. Why the metal audience seems to be overwhelmingly white is a topic for another thread, or maybe another forum.

I think a failed attempt to go back and tell a mythological story was Emperor's Prometheus. The album itself was pretty good as far as I was concerned, but it did nothing to conjure an atmosphere of the period in which the story is told. It was too modernized to feel like a story of the days before fire.

 

[Cythraul]

Actually I'm highly interested in some non-Nordic bands focusing on their native culture lyrically and folk music musically, such as Negurã Bunget (Romania) and all the Ukrainan bands like Nokturnal Mortum, Hate Forest, Astrofaes and Drudkh, so while I feel most connected to my Nordic heritage, culture and traditional music, that does not mean I can have extensive interest in and appreciation for others.

I haven't had a chance to get into any of the stuff you just mentioned but it sounds interesting. Does anyone know of any bands that explore Greek folk influence aside from Rotting Christ's very seldom hints of Greek musical influence?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

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