Rhythm guitar & Riffs thread

[flying_whale]

Hello everyone!
There have been some threads around here about sweep picking, shred, legato, diminished scales and shit like that, but none about yer good olde riffs. So Everyone please post exercises and ways to increase stamina and speed and accuracy of your downpicking and speed picking and tremolo picking(black metalish style). Also ways of not fucking your tendons in your right (or left for lefties) while practicing those are very much welcomed in your thread.
I will start by bragging about how I can use all downstrokes when playing sepultura's slave new world and territory (minus the solo and the chugging parts in territory). I'm working on fight fire with fire by metallica, and seek and destroy (althogh not that fast and demanding on the right hand stamina wise).
I have a few question for you all though.
1. I discovered that pick size matters. Between a 2.0mm dunlop and a 1mm dunlop the difference is huge, much more easier with the 2mm for everything including chugging and downpicking. Is it OK if i would permanently switch to thick ass picks like the 2mm? are the legends I read on some other boards true, that the thicker the pick the more likely it is to get wrist injury?
2. Does string size matter? I switched from 11s to 10s recently because i went back up to E standard from D standard (don't blame me on that, blame steve haha )

Also lets post in this thread about riffs and what makes them awesome and maybe tips on how to write awesome riffs?
paul

 

[Nebulous]

Hell yeah! I love riffs. They are more along the lines of songwriting which means so much more to me nowdays. I like playing rhythm alot. Lately my 'warm up' for rhythm has been Iced Earth- The Hunter, Brainwashed and Jack (I'm trying to add Desert Rain to that) Blind Guardian- Lost in the twighlight hall, Testament- The Preacher (20 bpm slower for now) and an In Flames medley in which the whole of The Jester Race (song) is performed. When I feel like more rhythm, I'll also play Evergrey- The Masterplan, Mark of the triangle and Solitude Within.
In terms of action/ pick/ strings, I like the purple dunop Tortex (1.14mm IIRC) and 10's in E standard. I've tried thinner picks, I've also tried Jazz picks, but this fels like home to me.
I don't know about fucknig up your tendons, and how not to, but I don't get as sore as I use to cos I've been donig pushups in the mornings lately, so I think my "soreness" was just me being a weak pussy. Practicing more has also helped I use to actually get a sore frett hand while playing some styles, then I realised I was just applying too much pressure.

My "kickass riff of the week" would be the intro to Testament's The Preacher \m/ Those inverted fifths kick so much ass each time, it never gets old!

 

[JBroll]

1. I discovered that pick size matters. Between a 2.0mm dunlop and a 1mm dunlop the difference is huge, much more easier with the 2mm for everything including chugging and downpicking. Is it OK if i would permanently switch to thick ass picks like the 2mm? are the legends I read on some other boards true, that the thicker the pick the more likely it is to get wrist injury?
2. Does string size matter? I switched from 11s to 10s recently because i went back up to E standard from D standard (don't blame me on that, blame steve haha )

(1) Use thick picks if they feel right. I don't know what could go wrong as a result of using thick picks, as I've been playing for years with nothing thinner than a 1.5 (currently using 1.5mm Sharpies), and I'd say that for rhythm playing you'll get a much better idea of what you're really playing without pick flex and extra noise getting in the way.

(2) Thicker strings yield more tension, more tension means less string flopping around and more precision. I'm using 14-70 in C#, I wouldn't use anything lighter than 12-60 in standard - playing thin strings is fine for floppy blues and Van Halen, but for metal you're probably just going to sound and feel better with more tension (I prefer about 28-30 pounds of tension on my strings, it allows more right-hand precision because the string is snapping right back to where it was before I hit it) and if you've been trying to consistently downpick thrash with rubber bands you'll probably notice an improvement.

As far as the rhythm riffs go... DNR by Testament, some Kreator, Prelude to Repulsion by Suffocation, and some stuff that I wrote just for rhythm practice - I'll tab/record it later.

Jeff

 

[flying_whale]

jeff, 14s for C#? good god you are fucking nuts, that is thicker for your C# string than jeff loomis' seventh string that is a Bb. Damn. 11s in D was pretty tight, had a lot of attack. I get the same attack with 10s in E standard or maybe a little more than with the 11s in D. but 14s in C#. damn...
how do you play leads with that thing? how do you do legatto and tapping?
i don't get the part about rubber bnads though

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

This is from christofermalmstrom.se. According to Christofer: Next rhythm figure is taken from the song ¨A Wisdoms Breed¨. It is also a very good right hand exercise.

 

[flying_whale]

This is from christofermalmstrom.se. According to Christofer: Next rhythm figure is taken from the song ¨A Wisdoms Breed¨. It is also a very good right hand exercise.

i will try this when i get home with a metronome. I will play it in E standard, not in B standard as it is shown there.

IMHO in metal i think riffs are much more important than solos. Awesome riffs+awesome arrangements can make up for solos and uber technicality. Gojira is awesome and they don't have guitar solos, they are brilliant and somewhat technical.

 

[Nebulous]

That point is proven perfectly on Testament's Gathering. Not that there are no solos', but the songs are so awsome, you barely notice which one has a solo and which doesn't.

 

[JBroll]

jeff, 14s for C#? good god you are fucking nuts, that is thicker for your C# string than jeff loomis' seventh string that is a Bb. Damn. 11s in D was pretty tight, had a lot of attack. I get the same attack with 10s in E standard or maybe a little more than with the 11s in D. but 14s in C#. damn...
how do you play leads with that thing? how do you do legatto and tapping?
i don't get the part about rubber bnads though

It just sounds fucking good. I have big, strong hands so I can get away with it, and the tone is worth it. Yeah, Loomis uses the same string in Bb as I do in Db, but keep in mind that he's got a longer scale length (so for me to get the same tension on my smaller scale I'd be in B) - also, 70 is the biggest individual string I can find for a reasonable price. La Bella makes a 15-80 baritone set(although it's nickel-wound and I like steel a lot more), so I may wind up using those on my 7. If you want to plug numbers into a calculator I have about 28 pounds of tension on the wound strings.

As far as legato/tapping, (1) I do hammer ons only (no pulloffs - rather than trying to sound a note that you would normally pull off to, I just hammer on immediately after letting the higher note go), (2) I have a pretty high action (3-5mm off the fretboard) so I can slam down hard without fear of hitting surrounding strings, and (3) I have big hands and I'm used to it because I've been using thick strings for so long.

Rubber bands... loose strings feel like rubber bands to me, that's how I refer to any setup with less than about 20 pounds of tension. If you're playing 10s, or 11s in Eb or D, or 12s in C, it feels loose and sloppy to me - my pick attack in rhythms is strong enough to basically make a 46 in E fluctuate between an F and an F# at first, so I need a lot of tension to keep the notes where they're supposed to be or I wind up sounding like heavily distorted mooing.

I still don't have time to PowerTab rhythms, so when I put stuff up later tonight it'll likely be ASCII tab and sound files from an amp sim.

Jeff

 

[BbqBats]

I use 10s in Eb and D. I like the way it sounds and feels. In the long run, it always boils down to what sounds/feels good to you.

 

[Steve Smyth]

I use 10s in Eb and D. I like the way it sounds and feels. In the long run, it always boils down to what sounds/feels good to you.

Well put BbqBats.

 

[Nebulous]

While i don't quite go as tension crazy as JBroll, I've changed from 9's to 10's (D'addario's) in the last few months, well, it's been about 6 now. Anyway, I find that the extra tension in E standard is very well recieved by my technique. I don't get as tired anymore when playing faster thrash rhythms, and the longer, extended chords sound much better too.

 

[flying_whale]

I use 10s in Eb and D. I like the way it sounds and feels. In the long run, it always boils down to what sounds/feels good to you.

I agree. Sometimes I put the guitar in Drop D to play slave new world by sepultura along the disc (so i don't have to tune the whole guitar to D standard). I figured how to adapt the riffs. I like it. It sounds really heavy, heavier than in D standard with 11s if i recall corectly from when i had 11s in D standard. I think it depends on the kind of sound of rhythm sound you want to get out of the guitar or riff. For example if you want to get a very sharp and percussive tone ala master of puppets (title track verse riff, or battery) thick strings might give you that edge. If you want a more rawr kinda sound like river dragon has come ( i know it is a seven string) thinner stirngs(but not nines) might be better. Don't quote me on this though.

ONTOPIC:
for the riffs i found that i really dig inverted power chords (is this how they are called?). For example an A5 powerchord (open A string and 2nd fret on D string) can be played as the lowest 2 strings played open. So it is an E and A. THat sounds so heavy. I fuck around with that a lot lately and i use it like some bands use onefinger barre chord in standard on the low 2 strings all with downstrokes and palm muting, it sounds so heavy and gojira-esque even in E standard. Inverted chords are awesome.

also what muscle group(s) should i use for speed picking. Should the motion come from the wrist or elbow? which one is better/healthier for long term use

 

[Nebulous]

Use as little of your arm is what ive always heard. Some poeple use their wrist, some people use their fingers. I tend to use my wrist and have my fingers pretty static.

I've found that spending some time watching live DVD's and even looknig at live photo's can help in seeing what the "pros" do in terms of technique.

 

[flying_whale]

Ok, i will watch some hetfield videos before i play rhythm next time and the nevermore guitar columns before playing leads lol:
I noticed that Steve uses his arm/elbow a lot in the guitar world TGE video and in the rhythm parts in Psalm of Lydia columns, but i can see he definately uses some of his wrist too. Steve could you please elaborate on your picking technique, especially for rhythm and speed picking?

 

[Nebulous]

While I'm not Steve (duh ) I have found that for tight rhythms (fast chuggs, etc) you shouldn't be using too much of your arm, whereas with lead and slower rhythms, you can get away with alot more arm movement as it can add to the character of your playing, and looks cooler (think Bill and Ted) haha.

 

[Liverslapper]

play Enemies of Reality, that is a song that will get the blood flowin'

For my blues playinig i use my strat but i don't use really light strings, i like the deep bluesy feeling so my strings are slightly bigger. Ill play blues and such on my acoustic, that will build some strength.

as for picks and strings, get what feels good, by various picks (since they are not expensive) and try them out with different styles of playing.

With strings, I use DR Strings for my 7-string.

 

[JBroll]

for the riffs i found that i really dig inverted power chords (is this how they are called?). For example an A5 powerchord (open A string and 2nd fret on D string) can be played as the lowest 2 strings played open. So it is an E and A. THat sounds so heavy. I fuck around with that a lot lately and i use it like some bands use onefinger barre chord in standard on the low 2 strings all with downstrokes and palm muting, it sounds so heavy and gojira-esque even in E standard. Inverted chords are awesome.

also what muscle group(s) should i use for speed picking. Should the motion come from the wrist or elbow? which one is better/healthier for long term use

I really like inverted fifths (technically these can also be called fourths, but that's neither here nor there), and on top of being easier to move around they sound massive when you have the bassist playing the root note directly below your chord.

As for the muscle groups, elbow will start to hurt quicker unless you've always been using it. I get control from the wrist and power from the elbow (a LOT of power from the elbow) and my threshold is high above the vast majority of stuff I actually play, so I can get away with slamming things with arm muscles a lot, but when I'm challenged by something I'll use very little or no elbow at all.

Ok, i will watch some hetfield videos before i play rhythm next time and the nevermore guitar columns before playing leads lol

Or you could go one up and study Testament and early Megadeth rhythms, and in addition just about any solo Chris Poland ever did... seriously, tell me Metallica has anything on DNR. People can show up to Guitar Center slamming RTL and MOP all day long, but The Gathering is easily one of the most 'holy fuck, my hands are falling off' records I have ever attempted to play.

Jeff

 

[flying_whale]

play blackened without brakes and solos, just hetfield's part it is pretty difficult. I'm not bashing testament, but for me learning metallica songs would do better. DNR is too hard

 

[JBroll]

DNR is too hard

Nothing should be too hard. That's why you're here.


Jeff

 

[Steve Smyth]

DNR is too hard
Allright, Paul, next lesson.