Sennheiser 421 shootout! Vintage original vs Modern Reissue

[Trevoire520]

Here's one for the Colin Richardson fans. We've got 3 different 421's in the studio:

Modern 421 II
Vintage 1970's 421 U4
Blackfire 521

All dead centre of a Celestion Greenback in my Mesa Rectifier cab.

I've also thrown a 57 in there as a common reference.



Personally I don't think there's much difference between the 521 and the 421 U4, but the 421 II really doesn't fare too well on guitar cabs compared to the old ones.

 

[~BURNY~]

Very interesting, I wonder how my old grey 421n would compare to these. I suspect the 421 II would sound more interesting on toms.

 

[DeclanWhite]

last one is the best. damn, i only have a 421 II haha

 

[BLUElightCory]

The U4 sounds great.

The 421 II basically shows why I sold all three of mine. Nasal, thin, and unsatisfying, even with a great guitar tone.

 

[Mago]

Yep, the last one sounds like I know mine sounds, which is also an older gray/creme one.

But are you sure that it's the U4, and not the 421-2 or 421-n?
According to the german wikipedia the 421 U4 & U5 have black casing.
421-2 doesn't have a switchable hipass, 421-n does.
According to that, I've got a 421-2...

 

[cfh11]

GAS activated... i want a U4

 

[Trevoire520]

Very interesting, I wonder how my old grey 421n would compare to these. I suspect the 421 II would sound more interesting on toms.

Yeah that's the general consensus that I've read, the II's are great on toms but not so hot on guitars. My old 421 is still nice on toms when I've used it mind you so maybe the better all rounder.

Yep, the last one sounds like I know mine sounds, which is also an older gray/creme one.

But are you sure that it's the U4, and not the 421-2 or 421-n?
According to the german wikipedia the 421 U4 & U5 have black casing.
421-2 doesn't have a switchable hipass, 421-n does.
According to that, I've got a 421-2...

Just got it out to double check and it definitely says 421 U-4 on the sticker under the mic clip,

 

[Kazrog]

Great post, killer tones all around.

It's sad how much better most vintage mics sound on high gain guitars than new ones; this is one of the reasons why all of the Sennheisers used in the Recabinet library are vintage. I also can highly recommend the vintage Sennheiser MD409, it's one of the best mics of all time, although they have become very expensive these days on eBay etc...

 

[Mago]

Just got it out to double check and it definitely says 421 U-4 on the sticker under the mic clip,

huh, well then I wikipedia gets that one wrong it seems!
Has pretty similar characteristics to mine though, hi mids sound really alike.

fwiw, I also like the new ones more on toms, especially floor toms.
Rack toms it doesnt't make that much of a difference for me, but I'll also use 57s on rack toms cause I dig how they sound, and if I'm not willed to put up with having to place 421s at stands....sooooo take that with a grain of salt

 

[Melodeath]

Great post, killer tones all around.

It's sad how much better most vintage mics sound on high gain guitars than new ones; this is one of the reasons why all of the Sennheisers used in the Recabinet library are vintage. I also can highly recommend the vintage Sennheiser MD409, it's one of the best mics of all time, although they have become very expensive these days on eBay etc...

I've been dying for a MD409 for years, but yeah they're like $600 on ebay. Best you can do on the cheap is get an e906, which in the flat position, sounds 80% of the way there.

Also, I wanted some vintage 421s, but I got a great deal on the new ones that I couldn't pass up, so now I have three of the IIs. Haven't tried it on guitar, but they sound great on toms. Thanks for the shootout. This reignites my GAS for the old ones.

 

[ArthurD]

vintage is the best on this.

 

[mickrich]

Hated all of them.
I find a 421 to be very annoying on its own but sometimes like it blended with 57.
Do you have any m201s in the studio?
They beat a 421 for me every time.

 

[Trevoire520]

Hated all of them.
I find a 421 to be very annoying on its own but sometimes like it blended with 57.
Do you have any m201s in the studio?
They beat a 421 for me every time.

I definitely feel they fair better blended with a 57 than on their own. I do actually have some old 201's but they're knackered, absolutely shit the bed at any kind of high spl. Hoping to grab a new one at some point as I've heard good things.

 

[Mago]

I haven't used a 421 on its own yet, but if I record it with the 57 it will be blended in 9 out of 10 cases (if doubletracked, not digging it on quads).
Most of the time the 57 could stand on its own too, but the 421 adds a really nice midrange that makes everything a bit meatier.


And for what its worth, I think in such blend cases you can replace the 421 with a sm7b, gives a really similar effect.

 

[JeffTD]

I really need to do this kind of test with my Unidyne III 57 and my modern, Mexican 57s. The Unidyne has a smoother top end and more 'rounded' feel to it but I've been digging the newer version for heavy guitars and snare lately for some reason.

 

[cfh11]

And for what its worth, I think in such blend cases you can replace the 421 with a sm7b, gives a really similar effect.

This is relevant to my interests. I was thinking about picking up an e906 to blend with my sm57 but I also have an sm7b.. any samples of the sm57/sm7b mix?

 

[Trevoire520]

I can't say I've ever thought the SM7B sounds like the 421 to be honest.

I've got a SM7B, I'll do a big shootout with a bunch of mic's soon, I've got:

SM57
SM57 Transformerless
SM58
SM7B
I5
E604
E904
E609
421
AT4040
M179
ATM450
C391B
NT5
C3000
C1000

So there's a fair few to get through.

 

[MetalSound]

That´s a really interesting comparison. Thanks for posting!

 

[Mago]

I can't say I've ever thought the SM7B sounds like the 421 to be honest.

I've got a SM7B, I'll do a big shootout with a bunch of mic's soon, I've got:

SM57
SM57 Transformerless
SM58
SM7B
I5
E604
E904
E609
421
AT4040
M179
ATM450
C391B
NT5
C3000
C1000

So there's a fair few to get through.

I found it came to a pretty similar tone in the end.
sm7B flat, gives a similar charakter to my 421 on the cab. Not sounding the same obviously on it's own, but blended with the 57 it gets to the same ballpark.

Cool stuff, seems you get a lot of micing to go through

 

[Mago]

This is relevant to my interests. I was thinking about picking up an e906 to blend with my sm57 but I also have an sm7b.. any samples of the sm57/sm7b mix?

here
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3961577/Mixes/Mago_6505+Mesa4x12Standard SM57SM7b-TR.mp3

not raw, mind.
sm7b with hi pass and presence boost in.

Edit:
Bullshit, sm7 was set flat of course...no idea why I thought I had those in