slate drums always getting buried

[joeymusicguy]

this is kind of a really small observation but

i notice with 4 guitar tracks (2 left, 2 right) and sample replacement via steven slate samples (pre mixed ) that the slate drums get kind of buried when i get the guitars at a level i feel is pretty good.

if i turn the guitars down, the drums cut nice, but everyone complains they're not loud enough.

this is taking into account a mastering chain (compression, eq, limiter)...

i always find my self wanting to lift the snare fader.

anyone else notice this?

 

[JeffTD]

Actually, yes. I usually blend in another sample along with it, but alone, they aren't cutting super well for me.

 

[s34nsm411]

yeah, most of the snares dont really stand out without some eq

 

[abyssofdreams]

I'd say it's not a problem with the samples but with the fact that you don't let the drums breathe EQ-wise.
Also the right amount of extra compression is really important to make them sit in the mix quite nicely.
I always have to tame the drums when I use Slate samples so for me it's the other way...
Can you upload a sample?

 

[LSD-Studio]

I usually EQ them as well and blend something else in.

I'm really digging them though....just bugs me a bit that you have to go through the samples and clean them...there are some samples with sticknoises etc (you know, when the drummer thought he's done already and put the sticks down ) than there's a sample or two with the decay cut..looks/sounds like accidently (I deleted that sample by now)...
but once you cleaned them up (and it's really only on few of them) they work quite nice IMO


I was just wondering why nobody recognized the sticknoises etc during processing.

 

[abyssofdreams]

Yes, I noticed them too but usually you can't hear them in a full mix so I tend to leave em in

 

[LSD-Studio]

...but usually you can't hear them in a full mix so I tend to leave em in

ppl don't hear shit anyway.....but I know they're there and I can't live with that, so I edited them

 

[JeffTD]

I haven't heard any, but I only use like 2 kicks and 3-4 of the snares - do you remember which ones, Lasse?

 

[LSD-Studio]

I haven't heard any, but I only use like 2 kicks and 3-4 of the snares - do you remember which ones, Lasse?

not really...might have been snare 5 or 18 or 16..not sure though

 

[Machinated]

I just got the samples like last week so I haven't had a great deal of stuff to test them out on. That said, I have noticed them getting buried quite easily without a little bit of work.

Also do a lot of the kicks seem to have a bit too much high end in them?

 

[abyssofdreams]

I just got the samples like last week so I haven't had a great deal of stuff to test them out on. That said, I have noticed them getting buried quite easily without a little bit of work.

Also do a lot of the kicks seem to have a bit too much high end in them?

+ too much low end

same for the snares, I always high shelf around -3/-4db starting at 8k

 

[joeymusicguy]

I just got the samples like last week so I haven't had a great deal of stuff to test them out on. That said, I have noticed them getting buried quite easily without a little bit of work.

Also do a lot of the kicks seem to have a bit too much high end in them?

yes

that supposed metallica kick is completely useless
unless you need like, i dont know, the sound of someone smacking an ass cheek

 

[akarawd]

I don't get it people. Did you expect every sample to just fit every mix ? I buy all drum replacement libraries and I've never had one sample that suits everything. It's the nature of our music that demands some kind of (even subtle) processing.

Chris Tsangarides (producer of Judas Priest's Painkiller - I know the sound on that album is not good by today's standards) said about that particular album : "You've got to do a lot of unnatural things to make an album sound natural".

Having said that the drums on our tracks were replaced with SSD 2.0 samples (one kick,one snare) processed mildly and you can hear the end result by clicking on my sig.

Regards,
Thanos

 

[LSD-Studio]

I don't get it people. Did you expect every sample to just fit every mix ? I buy all drum replacement libraries and I've never had one sample that suits everything.

no one said that.

 

[Damphire]

I agree with akarawd. They are modeled samples, not magic samples

 

[akarawd]

I guess I misunderstood. My apologies.

Regards,
akarawd

 

[Glenn Fricker]

I really like working with Slate's samples & usually don't fuck with them very much. Maybe a bit of a rolloff on the extreme bottom end of the kick, but that's usually it. Then again, most of the time, I'm just replacing kicks & maybe blending a touch of snare. never had to fight with the guitars.

 

[colonel kurtz]

they get a little buried for me sometimes...but then i parallel comp. that shit, EQ a little, and aux the snare out to some reverb

 

[Slate]

Hi guys. There are about a zillion mp3s on the net with my samples out there and I have to be honest, from what I've heard, its very rare I hear the samps buried, in fact, quite the opposite. Many of those fantastic mp3s were on this forum actually. If the samps aren't cutting, I'd:

-try another sample
-for kicks, as it says right in the manual, adjust your low end
-turn the drums UP!!
-spike some more upper mids on the snare
-adjust your other instruments dynamically in the mix
-i'll say it again, watch the sub lows on the kicks, the faster the song, the more sub to knock off

The Metallica kick is intended to do one thing: sound spot on to the layered kick from Metallica's black album. That it does to my ears. If you are going for that sound, its certainly not useless. However, I like to mix that kick with other kicks to get hybrid sounds, in fact I rarely use just one kick sample on anything these days.

I'd be happy to help anyone out who is having any issues with my samples.. all you have to do is post an mp3.

Here are a few metal and hard rock mixes I just found on the net that certainly don't sound buried:

http://homepage.mac.com/markmusic/.Music/facemeetfist.mp3 (Mark Moore)
http://www.stevenslatedrums.com/demo2/DreamKit2.mp3 (Mark Moore)
http://www.vitaetmusica.com/outgoing/WhereIAmOct9.mp3 (Scott Reinwand)
http://www.stevenslatedrums.com/demo2/marchdef.mp3 (March Hare)
http://www.stevenslatedrums.com/demo2/Ecco_RedTide.mp3

So now that we've hopefully taken the blame off the samps, lets get some mixes posted and help each other out.

EDIT: Joey I just realized you say after your mastering chain and you included the word LIMITER. If you are using a limiter with a threshold then NO drums will cut after you make the mix louder. Please search for my name and the word GCLIP in this forum to see how to better get mixes louder in the digital world without screwing with transients. Having said that, from the stuff on your myspace page it seems like things are sounding good.

 

[Ermz]

I completely agree with Steven that if his samples are getting buried, there are some issues going on with the mix, rather than the samples themselves. These have salvaged a retarded amount of projects for me, and they are one of the closest things I hold dear as a mixer.

Steven, what do you usually use to blend multiple samples with each other? Just serial instances of Drumagog? When doing this, do you tend to mute the other 3 samples in the velocity layer you're working with (ie. just use SINGLE samples) or just let them do their thing and vary up every hit?