slate drums always getting buried

I just listened to that Devil Driver snare.

First off, if anyone was comparing it in a mix to one of my samples, there is a huge issue. This Devil Driver snare is from a MASTERED MIX.. and a heavily mastered one at that. By my meters, it is about 7.5 db hotter then my samples! I also noticed it is very scooped sounding. And last... it is CLIPPED.. as in, this master was NOT limited, but clipped. You can simulate this by using GClip on your mastering chain followed by an L2 with no threshold at -.03.

My samples have HEADROOM. If you want to make them louder, do it by raising the fader appropriately. If you are really in the mood for loud and aggressive, use GClip on the snare channel and put it up with 2x oversampling on about 3-4db. Don't do any more then that because then when the whole mix is mastered and goes through an additional clipping stage, the transient is really going to get ugly. Always follow GClip with a Limiter with a ceiling at -.03 but with NO THRESHOLD ie no limiting!

So, to sum it up:
- don't be afraid to turn all your other stuff DOWN and leave the drum samples UP
- when comparing drum samples, compare with all levels equal. In case of Devil Driver, turn it down 7.5db and then compare it with one of my samps
- if you are mastering, don't use a limiter if you want to keep the punchiness of your drums. For now use GClip. I'll have something better for you guys to use soon.
- if you really want volume, use the Gclip/L2 no threshold combo on the samples, just don't go to crazy.
- to get that cut your throat sound in heavy metal mixes, try boosting some mids
 
I'm not sure but there soon will be something better...

Anyone, now lets prove my point. I've evened out the score.

Posted below are two samples. The first one is one of mine, its free so grab it if you'd like.. its Snare11A (chose this sample randomly) with a judicious amount of GClip both on the sample and then on the output master fader. I added 1.5db of URS CSP low end at 120Hz. It is now STEREO and its as loud as the DevilDriver. The other posted clip, is one stereo instance of the DevilDriver snare. Now that we've evened out the score by putting more level on one of my samples, check out how the samples compare in your workstation. Use your workstation as a laptop and Windows Media Player will do this test no justice.

To my ears, I think this "loudened" Snare11A certainly gives the Devil snare a run for its money, no? Also, you'll hear how powerful the midrange is on Snare11A compared to the Devil snare. Remember, this is the same Snare11A that anyone who owns the collection already has, along with its Z4 ambience file.

Joey, try that "mastered" stereo Snare11A in a test mix. If this "buried" problem goes away (and I certainly think it will), then we know the issue is VOLUME. Lowering other faders and GClip are the answer.

FILES:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/sneaptest/Snare11A.wav

www.stevenslatedrums.com/sneaptest/Devil.wav
 
Steven, I gotta say, I think Andy's DevilDriver snare still has more smack to it. To my ears it sounds like your sample needs to be hit a little harder with the compressor...although Cardwell's example is a little closer due to the EQ work.
 
Hey Steven I realy like your samples!!!The toms and snare sounds so fantastic!!!! But I´m just missing some good metalcore/hardcore kick-drums. For example: The new Unearth from Adam D. /36 crazyfists albums from andy sneap (or maybe ALL newer Andy Records) /the "bullet for my valintine" kick from hand of blood./ The zeuss stuff from the new Terror / emmure / remembering never...
do you know what I mean? The kicks all sound FAT, clicky, but not too high. They all have this insane punch...

is there any new offer from you comming for forum members. I do a big production next march and I´m realy looking forward to buy a collection

best regrads
 
Yeah I forgot to mention the Stillwell plug-in... I haven't yet used it in a project, but I fiddled with it for a while and it does a good job of maintaining a perceived volume level and sound of a snare drum while actually reducing the level by several decibels. Super cool and super cheap!
 
i like your snare better haha
Slate said:
I'm not sure but there soon will be something better...

Anyone, now lets prove my point. I've evened out the score.

Posted below are two samples. The first one is one of mine, its free so grab it if you'd like.. its Snare11A (chose this sample randomly) with a judicious amount of GClip both on the sample and then on the output master fader. I added 1.5db of URS CSP low end at 120Hz. It is now STEREO and its as loud as the DevilDriver. The other posted clip, is one stereo instance of the DevilDriver snare. Now that we've evened out the score by putting more level on one of my samples, check out how the samples compare in your workstation. Use your workstation as a laptop and Windows Media Player will do this test no justice.

To my ears, I think this "loudened" Snare11A certainly gives the Devil snare a run for its money, no? Also, you'll hear how powerful the midrange is on Snare11A compared to the Devil snare. Remember, this is the same Snare11A that anyone who owns the collection already has, along with its Z4 ambience file.

Joey, try that "mastered" stereo Snare11A in a test mix. If this "buried" problem goes away (and I certainly think it will), then we know the issue is VOLUME. Lowering other faders and GClip are the answer.

FILES:
www.stevenslatedrums.com/sneaptest/Snare11A.wav

www.stevenslatedrums.com/sneaptest/Devil.wav
Click to expand...
 
the devil driver snare only works in their mix in my opinion

but steven's version was sick.

steve, did you read my post about my budget for a custom sample? i'll pm you sometime about it if not.
 
I have just been playing round with sticking an Event Horizon after the snare. I think the effect definitely helps these come through, but it can also be very easy to over do it. That said, I'm pretty damn happy with how its sounding.

Yeah Joey I agree with the DD snare that it only really suits that mix - it seems to have too much of like the snare wire sound or something over stuff I have tried it in. Stevens fits in much better.

CLIPS

Song with Steven Slate Drums - Snare 3 Z1 with some Z4 blended in, Kick 5 (I think)

Same Song with different samples
 
The goal with posting Snare11A with the judicious GCliping was to show how it would compare to the Devil snare with them both at the same volume.. not to try to sound LIKE the snare... However, the fact that Dave got Snare11A so close to the DevilDriver is pretty insane, as someone said, the ambience still differs but its pretty damn nice! I'll have to get Dave on my modelling team.

Someone mentioned metal kicks, I made a list of all the metal kicks on my collection earlier. With each of them and combos of them, you'll have every kind of fat punchy metal kicks then you can imagine. I personally use a combo of 5 and 15 for metal, with a low shelf for fast stuff. Andy uses the samps, maybe he can chime in with which kicks he's been using. I'll email Colin Richardson as well, as he uses the samples too.

Joey, I'm glad you liked the example. I still make custom samples for producers all the time, email me at support@stevenslatedrums.com subject CUSTOM SAMPLES and we'll talk about your personal sample needs.

Machinated, that mix sounds killer. Snare3 has always been an old fav of mine. Sounds like Kick5 too, cutting great. There is so much talent in this forum its ridiculous.

Steven
 
Cheers man!

Yeah thats the Superior drummer 2 cymbals adding their fakeness there haha. I basically just stick some Even Horizons after the kick and the snare, I may have used a touch of EQ, but only small boosts I think.

I normally used to stick the drums through a URS Strip (not the Pro one), on compression setting B, 4:1 ratio, and some EQ - leaving the mids in, and backing off the compressor a little helped bring these samples out more. I think there is also some parallel compression in there (although I don't use this much).
 
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