So now that Opeth is on its death bed....

[Naglfar]

Wouldn't the prog fans like "Damnation" moreso, since that was far more mellow and prog-like? "Deliverance" is much more aggressive and heavy in general.

My best buddy here, who's a bassist / computer-nerd academic / prog-rock lover, hates Ghost Reveries and loves Deliverance. He also likes Damnation, especially Ending Credits. I have a hippy friend back home who also is really big on Deliverance. I don't listen to much prog myself, I just noticed that my two friends who can actually play instruments with proficiency and are really into prog both loved Deliverance, and either hated or were uninterested in Ghost Reveries.

Although my ear really isn't tuned to prog, I've noticed some prog my friends listen to is pretty heavy, maybe it's just that the distinction between metal and prog has been under assault from Opeth and Porcupine Tree in recent years...

Edit: Just realized it's the first time I've posted here in like 6 months... shameful lurking on my part... ahehehe...

 

[S<issors]

Look at Death.

Look at Opeth.

There is a similarity... something to do with the leading man... hmm.

Seriously, I think they've got some steam left. Mike is their gestapo master.

 

[Hellgate]

Opeth for the most part, had a good dedicated line-up through most of their history. I think the team of Mike / Peter is irreplaceable... I also thought Lopez was irreplaceable. Now that Opeth has a foot in the grave, will you still follow them? If their next CD blows, will that be it for them? I really think they should have stopped after Lopez, but I can understand getting a new drummer to continue... but I think without Lindgren it really just won't be the same at all. They're going to have different guitars, drums, and now keys... It will be like a completely different band almost.

I put the questions in bold incase you didn't know what to reply to.

And congrats to ND for the good line-up and ongoing companionship, and stuff... all the hard-earned success.

Bueno!

Let's face the facts, your an idiot , maybe if you didn't act like a dumbass and get kicked out of the opeth forum you could discuss this topic there, instead of polluting Paul's forum with this crap. Maybe if you'd focus all this energy on your own music, it wouldn't suck. uke:

I put the questions in bold incase you didn't know what to reply to.

 

[BrandonS]

Oh yes, your an idiot. x_x

I don't post on the Opeth forum too often anymore because it's gay.

As for the actual thread, as a prog-lover, I thought Damnation was more catchy and radio-based, really not too much prog there. It was basically verse / chorus.... More like prog rock in a radio format, and the parts were so simple for that record, I was able to play the songs just after hearing them a couple times. x_x Ghost Reveries got boring much faster than their earlier stuff. I do like Deliverance more... It's less simplified and seems much more creative.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

To judge whether or not something is more "creative" is kind of subjective, too. I know alot of guys who can play technical music inside and out, but couldn't write a simple, memorable 3 minute song to save their lives. I find Bob Dylan and White Stripes songs often to be "creative" yet I have heard many progressive/technical songs that might take some proficiency on their instruments to perform, yet the music kind of went nowhere (again, in my opinion at least). Damnation might've had a more simple song structure and definitely had a slower, easier-to-follow pace to them as well....but I don't think that makes them any less creative to construct than your standard 12 minute Opeth opus. I don't think there's much difference between a song like Window Pane and say, ELP's Lucky Man or Yes' Time And A Word, both of which I think can be considered in the realm of "progressive rock", even though they're accessible enough to be played on the radio as well.

I hate that term, "radio friendly", especially when used to describe something like Damnation. I haven't heard a radio station yet that plays music like that (and I mean an actual radio station, I'm not counting internet or college radio where they have a far wider range of music to choose from). Britney Spears and Keane are radio friendly, not Opeth.

And I personally find Ghost Reveries a more interesting and tolerable listen than Orchid. Does this make me an idiot? No, it is just my personal taste, that's all. That's what music is about. I don't agree with some of Oinkness' comments or tastes, but I don't think name calling is necessary either.

 

[Diabolik]

Funny you mention about writing a 3 minute catchy song. I think writing a catchy song is a very hard thing to do. People laugh and goof on lots of power metal but in any genre of music you have hundreds of bands and musicians who are writing songs that are just flat and dull and go no where. It really takes something special to make it catchy and even have staying power. Go to any CD store and look at the used bins filled with junk. I have the same feeling towards newer local acts. There are too many rushing out there to play live shows instead of waiting and refining thier skills as a band and not just writing enough songs for a live show or CD. People are skipping that step and it really ends up hurting the genre in whole with flooding the market with garbage. I think there are two kinds of musicians....ones who are really talented and can play real tech stuff but most of them have a hard time writing a catchy songs and then the ones who can write catchy stuff but maybe are not as talented on thier instument. Then there is the third who I try not to mention who shouldnt have any reason around a musical instrument.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

There are also musicians who can write and play quite technical stuff, but then also have the melodic sensibilities for writing catchy hit songs. Hell, this might be a funny example, but look at a band like Asia....you've got guys from ELP, Yes and King Crimson- three very progressive, technically proficient bands, and then they form Asia and make an album of 3 1/2 minute radio rock songs, and the album sells millions, and some of those songs are still heard on the radio today. But I think that breed of musician is probably a bit more of a rarity these days. So many people tend to just focus on one style, or genre, of music when they play/write/learn, etc. I came from the school of thought where it made sense to learn about as much different kinds of music as possible. I didn't learn to play guitar by having an Ibanez, a couple of effects pedals, and a 65 watt amp. I had an acoustic, and then a cheap old school electric, and I learned from listening to everything from Roy Orbison and The Ventures to The Beatles to Kiss to Led Zeppelin. So I already had roots in those different kinds of music for a few years before I even really started playing and writing heavy metal. I know guys who can play Slayer or Cannibal Corpse songs inside and out, and do it really well. But they couldn't properly play a Beatles or Smithereens song to save their lives. And as such, the music these said musicians come up with winds up sounding pretty much just like Slayer and Cannibal Corpse.

I think musicians like Mikael grew up and learned alot in the same way as I did (although I don't claim to be half as good as he is!) Especially in Europe it seems like the musicians there grew up with a bit more of a varied musical influence. That seems to be less and less the case here in the U.S., at least in the Metal scene. Here, people think it's "diverse" to mix metal and hardcore, LOL. I'm not knocking metalcore, I like some of it. But I'm sure you can see my point.

Part of what's always made finding new musicians for ND so difficult, is the task of finding other guys who have that open-minded, diverse taste and background in music, where they're not just some "death metal guy" or whatever. It's alot harder than you might think, finding those diverse well-rounded metal musicians.

 

[WhiteBeastofWotan]

I've almost gotten to the point where I've pretty much stopped listening to overly complex and technical music because 98&#37; of the "technical" musicians today suck when it comes to actual song writing. I'd take a simple/slow passionate, emotional song or solo over some sweeping 5 billion bpm wankfest anyday.

 

[AnTz0r]

Especially in Europe it seems like the musicians there grew up with a bit more of a varied musical influence. That seems to be less and less the case here in the U.S., at least in the Metal scene. Here, people think it's "diverse" to mix metal and hardcore, LOL. I'm not knocking metalcore, I like some of it. But I'm sure you can see my point.

That's quite funny, I was in the studio today and I heard a guy say that people in the Netherlands often though music was diverse way too soon and im not just talking some ignorant fan, this guy knows his stuff

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Not trying to be mean at all, but I don't even understand what your point is, lol. Something lost in translation here.

 

[Naglfar]

If you grow up a metalhead in the US you also grow up being terrified of your bands not being "metal" anymore. It's kind of a stigma from parents and friends listening to heavier music, at least it used to really be that way. So if you've been living in defense of your musical tastes, you're not going to be as accepting of the influences of other genres. That may have some influence on how Americans view music... it's not that there's less diverse music to be enjoyed here, but Americans tend to be patriotic about their musical allegiances.

I think one of the reasons prog has been so acceptable to the casual metal fan, especially teenagers and people who don't really play music, is because the genre isn't perceived as being mainstream or, for lack of a better word, soft.

I have a theory, wholly unsubstantiated and based on faulty logic, that the reason metal has had such an uneven development in the US is because of Metallica. They were sort of the apex of American metal, and in the late 80s they were really the right combo of a commercially successful band with that "metal" tag self-conscious metalheads all over the US need as a security blanket. I think they're one of the few bands that you can really say sold out (who can blame them, the money they made...) and when a scene loses their most conspicuous act, in such a high profile way... maybe American metal needed to find a new identity. Doesn't help that American death metal imploded in the early 1990s (maybe that's not a coincidence)? I remember going to my dad's house in Florida every summer, and then almost literally one year to the next, Florida's death metal scene had vanished.

I don't know what I'm getting at. I just think that Americans like to cling to particular genres of music, kinda like how southerners are patriotic about their country, and freaks and dorks love their metal.

 

[AnTz0r]

Not trying to be mean at all, but I don't even understand what your point is, lol. Something lost in translation here.

well, i meant to say that what you said, that in the US people easily say a band is "diverse", people are complaining about the same thing here

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Oh ok, gotcha.

 

[Hellgate]

I have a theory, wholly unsubstantiated and based on faulty logic, that the reason metal has had such an uneven development in the US is because of Metallica. They were sort of the apex of American metal, and in the late 80s they were really the right combo of a commercially successful band with that "metal" tag self-conscious metalheads all over the US need as a security blanket. I think they're one of the few bands that you can really say sold out (who can blame them, the money they made...) and when a scene loses their most conspicuous act, in such a high profile way... maybe American metal needed to find a new identity. Doesn't help that American death metal imploded in the early 1990s (maybe that's not a coincidence)? I remember going to my dad's house in Florida every summer, and then almost literally one year to the next, Florida's death metal scene had vanished.

I don't know what I'm getting at. I just think that Americans like to cling to particular genres of music, kinda like how southerners are patriotic about their country, and freaks and dorks love their metal.

Lets face it, we all loved the metallica of the late 80's and the fact that they did sell out, instills fear in us that other bands will do the same. I think thats why the metal community is so strongly opinionated against sellouts today.

 

[Septembers Marc]

Ehm; Opeth is NOT on it's 'Death Bed'.

 

[Novembers Paul]

This thread has gone so far off topic, it needs to be put to bed.